Streaming the Game: Transforming Sports Broadcasting in the Digital Era

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Pro AV today. I am your host, as always, Ben Thomas. Today's conversation centers around the world of streaming and broadcasting. But more specifically streaming and broadcasting the world of sports. Now it's been interesting to see over the last few years an increase in people wanting to stream over terrestrial television. So, I wouldn't have that conversation today, but skewed a little bit more towards the infrastructure side of things. Some of the implications that pop up as people continue to pivot more towards streaming sports. And I brought on somebody who's been on the show before to talk about that. And, of course, I had to bring on my friend, Jed Corinthall, from Phoenix Real Time Streaming. Jed, thanks so much for coming back on the show today. Ben, it is a pleasure and good to see you. Well, look, since the last time we spoke, things have changed pretty dramatically, and I feel like that was like a year, a year and a half ago at most, but you know, you look at the previous NFL season. You look like you look at things like, you know, peacock having the largest stream sporting event of all time now in a playoff game. It's very obvious. There is a shift happening to where folks are just wanting to consume sports the way that they're consuming a lot of other things, and that is through streaming. I wanna ask, especially from a broadcaster's perspective, give us just a quick kind of overview of some of the changes that have happened, not only from a user preference standpoint, but maybe some of the infrastructure requirements that are actually in to be put into place before people can actually implement something like this effectively. Sure. Well, I guess one of the things to start out with is although there's been a lot of change, a lot of things remain the same, which is unfortunate, frankly, because the technology that most of the broadcasters employ which is a traditional sort of HLS workflow, you know, hasn't really improved at all. So what you're gonna see and what you're seeing in the Super Bowl and and pretty much everything everywhere else are delays in the thirty forty, fifty, sixty second range, you know, from the field of play to a user's device, And, you know, that is not changing and hasn't changed and won't change until they actually change their technology. So, you know, one of the things that we've been sort of screaming from the rooftops is, you know, wait a second, you know, what you've been experiencing doesn't have to happen anymore. You know, you don't have to have thirty second delays or sixty second delays You don't have to be out of sync from your neighbor or your friends. So when you get a tweet or a text or a notification, you know, that says, Hey, did you see that great play? You know, you haven't seen it yet. You know, those things don't have to happen anymore. So we're trying to you know, get out there and scream and yell and beat people up and do whatever it takes to get some things to change. But, you know, look, I mean, one of the things that we're starting to see is, to your point initially in your opening is the shift two more streaming. Peacock streamed game exclusively. Amazon is gonna is gonna stream an exclusive playoff game next year. So that is only gonna increase. And the amount of people that are moving to more and more streaming services to watch and consume their content, not only won't slow down, but will only increase. So in theory, it makes the technology that they use that much more important because the experience that they're gonna have needs to improve. It needs to be better. So hopefully, you know, that will be a benefit to us. And in the long run then, because it will be a better user experience. Well, Jed, I wanna ask kind of in that same vein. One of the things that that we've seen recently is quite a bit of conglomeration, right, with folks like Fox and Warner Brothers and and I think it was ESPN that that announced that they were gonna partner together to start streaming all these these different games You know, it's it sounds cool in principle and in theory, right? But there's a lot of there's a lot of back end things that have to happen there, not only just from a a UI and UX standpoint from a delivery perspective, but actually making that stream happen in delivering it. Right? As you a lot of these different conglomerations happen. What are some of the common challenges that folks are running into from just implementing something that works from a streaming standpoint? Yeah. No no question. I think M and A is only gonna increase as well. And you you're right. And it's Fox, Warner Brothers, discovery and ESPN Disney. So, you know, that that new sort of bundle, if you will, isn't gonna change a whole lot because it's really it's just taking the three pieces that exist and just kinda merging them together. The challenges that they're gonna have are in the in the financial side. You know, what is it gonna cost the user to subscribe to abundant like that, forty, fifty, sixty dollars have been thrown around. How is the money gonna be distributed between the three you know, media companies because if you're Disney, you are walking into that partnership with more rights to more content than the other two. So does that mean you get a bigger piece of the pie, or is it become an equal share, you know, three, a third, a third, a third, So I think, you know, the the pricing and the business model will be the biggest challenge for those three going forward in terms of delivering that product. You know, I think Fox is probably the one who's gonna benefit the most because they don't have a you know, a a a streaming product like, you know, Disney has with the SPN plus and one of brothers has with Max or, you know, some of their other products. So, you know, they, I think, are gonna experience a benefit potentially more than the other two. But again, you know, what does that mean in terms of how much money they can make versus the other two? So I think that those are the things that are gonna be a challenge. And from what I've heard, they they wanna launch this fall. So that's not far. You know, it'll be it'll be interesting to see how things develop on that. Well, and one of the cool things about conglomeration is you can share costs. Right? So you'll see things like hopefully infrastructure improvements, things like them being able to roll out with real time streaming services, things like that. One of the places where you really sort of find, the the dramatic gap is a lot of the the regional sports networks and some of the folks, even like obviously Apple is one of the biggest companies in the world, but, you know, they have exclusive rights for things like the MLS, and they might not be able to put the exact same amount of resources behind a streaming product that somebody else might. What would you say, you know, especially from an upgrade and and delivery standpoint? What are some of the challenges that you see with maybe these regional sports networks and even kinda privatized rights broadcasters. Well, I don't know how much time we have, Ben, but The RSN discussion is a can of worms, and you don't have to chase that if you don't want to. No. No. No. You know, I'm always happy to. I mean, the the RSN business is a bit of a quagmire right now. And, I think that, you know, some good news for the Sinclair folks and the Diamond folks is that they seem to be resolving some of the, you know, some of this, I I, you know, there'll be a couple of baseball teams that will that will be able to have their games broadcast, and and I don't know about Stream, but, certainly this season, I know the guardians and the twins, and I've got I think as the Rangers, the three that are, are, have come to agreements with Diamond Sports Group. But, yes, it's a it's a very interesting And, frankly, to me, very fascinating, issue because, you know, major league baseballs involved and the NBA is involved. And the NHL has involved because, obviously, they have a a vested interest in getting their games to, you know, seen by as many people as possible. So, you know, they've all jumped in and said, well, you know, if balis or the RSens fall apart, you know, we'll broadcast the games and we'll produce the games. But that's, to your point, isn't as easy said as, you know, easy, as easy done as said. So we're said. So, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think that, you know, this coming season, it's gonna be a little bit fragmented. I think there's gonna be a couple of different players that are streaming different parts of each of the leagues, those three leagues. And then during the course of the year, it will be interesting to see what happens in twenty five because, you know, for instance, the NBA is to you know, has all of their media rights up after this after next season. So will they take all of the local rights to the fifteen or sixteen teams at the RSNs, have rights to and take them back and package that in, you know, with the with the national deal. So it would be sort of a national and a local deal. You know, I think all of those things are still very much TVD, but it will be fascinating to watch. You know, we're we're talking to them and and hoping to to to see if there's a role for us to play and and helping them stream some of these games. Well, look, you're right. It is the Rangers, and I am a victim, largely of a lot of the I think quagmire was the way that you put it of kind of just just people posturing and not wanting to put things in certain places. Right? It's it's It's terrible from a a fan perspective, and it's it's hard to, feel like your voice has been heard in that. But one of the things I wanna talk about too, you mentioned it a minute ago, is is kind of the the immediacy and the real time nature of a lot of these broadcasts. So folks like you and myself as well, grew up probably more on the OT on the OTA side of things where I could put my bunny ears in. I could watch the Rangers, I could watch whoever I wanted. And look, there's a eight, nine second delay, but that was right. I've gotta get my fiber line or my my TV line, and it's gotta go over there and get me. And then now we're talking about, especially when we pivot to streaming, we're talking about sixty, seventy, eighty, even two minutes of delay a lot of times. Yep. And that actually is is terrible for a from a user experience standpoint. I'm so surprised that that we haven't demanded as end users and even broadcasters that we fix that because, you know, you look we talked about sports betting last time you're on the show and that being one of the the challenges, but even just a fan experience standpoint. Right? You talked about not only being able to to, you know, mute notifications on your phone so you don't spoil the game, but What are some of the applications that you're seeing folks really lean into from a real time streaming perspective in the world of sports? Yes. Exactly. You're right. I mean, it's just it's two minutes is insane. So, you know, it's it's hard to even imagine why anybody would put up with that. But, you know, one of the things that we're starting to see more of is, sort of a move away from the subscriber model and a move towards the advertising model. You know, the the amount of subscriptions that people have is starting to get a bit overwhelming I mean, we just talked about another potential bundle that somebody could conceivably have to spend another fifty dollars on if they don't have the games that they want to watch, you know, they'll get this new ESPN Fox WVD bundle. So it's it's getting to the point where the dollars that are being spent by people on subscriptions is hundred fifty, two hundred more per month, and I think that it's becoming cost prohibitive. So, you know, having an advertising model, is is is I think ultimately gonna take over more so than the subscription model, excuse me. I mean, Amazon Prime just you know, release their ad tier. Netflix is doing extremely well with their ad tier. It seems as though in the last six months or so. You know, so so I think that, you know, you have to have advertising in your streaming service. One of the things, if I may, just to hone a little bit, is we're the only company in the first company in the industry to release real time service side ad insertion. So not only can we deliver the streams in half a second or less, but now we can insert ads into those streams. So any broadcaster who was worried about monetizing their content doesn't anymore because we can deliver all of those same features and tools that they have, you know, with a sixty second stream only in half a sec. So, I I think that's where the where things are moving towards. Well, and and you bring up a really nice point too about, you know, the fan experience doesn't doesn't stop at just viewing a specific game. Right? I I I can't even tell you how many of my friends who can afford five dollars a month were griping about having to subscribe to Peacock for one game. Right? It's inconvenient from a user standpoint, and then you start to stack inconveniences on whether it's, you know, a lack of reliability or lack of buffering on a stream or, hey, maybe I'm on DraftKings. I'm trying to play real time, in track of my team or you know, look for me to even watching the Super Bowl, the thing stopped and buffered for me five or six times. And I've got, you know, a gig up and down at my house. And You know, it's so frustrating from a user to even try and watch sports. And and we've almost, in a lot of ways, it's almost been a race to the bottom. Right? I wanna bring back OTA for a second and and talk about, look, there's a reliability, of of satellite. There's a reliability cable. There's a reliability of of just the over the air antenna that you really don't have in a lot of places with the streaming world, and that that is dramatically impacting the fan experience. And I of the conversations and one of the questions I wanna ask you right now is, you know, how do you balance the the desire for reliability, maybe with that real time need. Right? I I think that that if we're focusing on fan experience, there's gotta be a a little bit of a give and take. But, you know, you guys are doing fantastic work over there on on the Phoenix side of things, is there some give and take there? Or is it is it something that people can roll out immediately? No. That that's the thing. It's you don't have to sacrifice reliability and you don't have to sacrifice stream quality or latency or you know, that there is no need to have to sacrifice any of those things. That's a myth. And, you know, people say, well, if you're streaming on WebRTC or you know, you can't scale. Well, that's also a myth because we can scale. So it's it's it's not it has nothing to do with the the protocol or the technology, it's it's how you build on top of that and what you do to create that end product for the user And you're right. The user experience suffers because people, you know, aren't building the right product around the protocol that is being called for. So, no, we we are not of that mindset at all that you have to wait or or sacrifice or any of that, you know, it it just doesn't have to happen anymore. And I I, you know, people have to start complaining more than just Right? I mean, it has to be, you know, and and look, this is this is, you know, this is what happens when you get to a sort of a tipping point of of things. You know, it takes a minute. It it doesn't happen overnight. It didn't happen overnight with everything over the years. I mean, from black and white to color, you know, it didn't happen overnight. So, I mean, you know, the same thing, is happening with streaming. And the the the technology exists for streaming to be better than any other format and platform to watch the game. You can watch it as though you're at the stadium. But enough people have to know about it and realize that it exists for it to spread. Well, it doesn't even stop just a view in the game. Right? It it's it's multi screen experiences. It's real time stats. It's it's look, the the internet goes out at at the house and You know, I've got three or four people pulling it up on their phones, but, you know, usher is, you know, halfway through one song here hasn't started here and is almost done here. Right? You know, how important is you know, you're talking about real real time streaming. Are there applications really outside of the the, what I would call, the the shared screen experience, is it does it apply into the multi screen side of things? Oh, a hundred percent. Yes. A hundred percent. So we do we have a feature called multi view that allows us or allows our clients to stream, up to five different camera angles. That could be from one game where you can see, you know, if you're watching football game, it could be over the top, on the end zones, on the sidelines, and all five of those camera angles are in real time, and they're in sync. You can watch five different games at at at the same time. Imagine if you're at a golf tournament, you can watch five different golf holes. So, yes, that that is a very popular that's become a very popular, feature for our clients to incorporate into their, into their platforms. One one of the other things we're seeing a lot of is watch parties being able to have you and two or three of your friends you know, they could be all over the world, but watching the same game at the same time and talking and commenting and, you know, talking trash and all the fun things that you do if you were sitting in the same room, only you're sitting in different rooms. And I'm not talking about texting and chatting. I'm talking about video and you're all four of you are watching that same game at the same time, you know, on on the screen. So, those interactive features are really what kind of drives the user experience and what frankly drives the real real need for real time because You can't do that if you're ten or twenty seconds delayed, let it own sixty. Well, Jen, what's stopping people from doing it? I mean, it, you know, I if I'm a bra broadcaster. This seems like a no brainer. Right? Is it a is it a rebuild of my infrastructure? Is it a price that I mean, what what what realistically is keeping folks from using this technology? I think it's a combination of factors. I think change isn't the easiest thing for big companies. I think the fact that we didn't have a way for them to monetize, you know, using ads in the past was something that held them back and rightly so because if I'm Fox or NBC or Disney or ESP, you know, would name your channel, your real time streaming is great, but they can't monetize. There's no way for them to recoup money. But now we have that. So, you know, we're hopeful that that's gonna start to change a conversation. You know, it's just time. It's just we've gotta get people convinced that it works, it's good, and it's reliable, and it will it will make a lot of their users fans happier. Well, last question here, and this is always one of my favorite questions. I'm gonna ask you to pull out your crystal ball here for a second. You know, imagine as as soon as five years as far as maybe ten or fifteen years away, what are some of the technologies and what are some of the preferences that you think will continue to, to come out of this increased demand for streaming, especially in the world of sports? Well, I think one thing two things I'll say that are more along the lines of betting. One is that we're gonna see people being able to bet on their big screen, being able to kind of enter your credentials to a sports book, FanDuel Draft's name your sports book, and have a sort of seamless experience where you're watching, which only for streaming. Where you're streaming the game and you're able to bet while you're watching the game. So it's a betting, you know, a betting watch experience on any device, big screen, little screen, you name it. And then I think that, you know, there's there'll be kind of a fun thing from a betting standpoint where you can bet against your friends, sort of a peer to peer bet, where, you know, I can say to you, hey, Ben. I think Pat Pat Mahomes is gonna throw a touchdown on the next play. And you say, no, well, but you're two bucks. And, you know, we have can kind of some back and forth on that. But again, you know, the experience has to get better and and, and, or, or I should say, get broader, and more people have to incorporate that sort of real time technology, but I think I I I see it happening. It's just a matter of time. Well, look, Jed, you'll be with us every step of the way being our, our trusted advisor in real time broadcast. I'll tell you what, if you guys get a chance, if you're out at NAB's, IBC's, wherever Jet is, or Phoenix's these days, get out get out there. Ask them questions. I mean, the, you know, the that's the best way that I I've been able to learn. Just, you know, I come from the world of broadcast. I come from the world of of O and O's. And, you know, the world of streaming is still relatively in its infancy. That sounds crazy to say, but you know, you you talked about even building on top of applications and building on top of streams. There's so many places that we can continue to go as an industry in Jet. I know that you're a trusted advisor, not only for me, but for a lot of people as well. If people have questions, where can they reach out to you? Come to our site, Phoenix RTS. That's p h e n I x r t s dot com. Well, look, Jed, we appreciate you having you on the show today. And, look, I we're gonna a way to have you back on. We always do. And we appreciate you, the viewer tuning in. Be sure to like and subscribe. Check us out next time on Pro AB today.