Intergenerational Diversity and Inclusion Create a Harmonious Workplace

When we are inviting people into our workplace, I think that there's this idea or this resistance that whoever is in leadership, no matter what generation you are, that that you only have to fold and lean in and make all of the changes for the upcoming generation. But the conversation goes both ways. And so me as a a Gen X leader, when I have a conversation, I tell people, here's how I am as a leader. Here's what's important to me. Direct communication, being on time. If you're one minute late to a Zoom meeting, I wonder if you're okay. Welcome to the Apple One podcast. I'm your host, Brett Howroyd. This podcast consists of three different running series. And today, you are listening to our The People Business series where we have conversations focused on HR, labor law, and really anything HR professionals or executives in general would find interesting. But honestly, I reserve the right to go down whatever rabbit hole or tangent I find interesting. So let's get started with today's topic, generations in the workforce. Our first guest is doctor Milton Perkins, who I like to call doctor p. Doctor p, tell us about yourself. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are. Hello to your listeners. And thank you, Brett, for inviting me to your podcast, and I'd love to talk about this topic. Again, doctor p, Milton Perkins, an HR practitioner for about forty four years. I've been a CHRO, a VP of HR, a chief diversity officer, public speaker, and next month, I'm published author, and I've been blessed with the opportunity to work for the ActOne Group of companies in a couple of different companies. I've been around the human capital space for a long time, probably longer than some of your listeners have been alive. This is all I've ever done, and I will ever do. Never will retire. This is my lane, and I'm gonna stick in it. That's my story. I'm sticking in it. Thank you for having me on you your podcast. Well, we're lucky to have you. That is quite the renowned, career, and thank you for for coming on the podcast today. And because the topic is generations in the workforce, doctor p, are you holding it down for the baby boomers today? Those are my people. You know, there's things called age cohort and generational cohort. We'll probably get in that into that during the podcast, but I am the representative for the BBs, the baby boomers. Alright. Love it. Our second guest today is Nicole McMurray. Nicole, tell us about yourself and what generation you represent today. Sure. Thanks, Brett, for having me. I'm Nicole McMurray. I represent Gen X. So all of you Care Bear and strawberry shortcake fans out there, that's who I will be, relating to today. I've been with Apple One appointment services for twenty years, and I now serve as the regional vice president for our organization. And I'm also a raving fan of doctor Pete, so here is his his hype his hype girl. Yes, sir. Love that. Thank you for being on the show today, Nicole. And our third guest is Zoe Laup. Zoe, tell us about yourself and what generation are you representing today? Hi, everyone. I am an intern to dream success voice here. I started with Apple one intern degree dream program, and now I am business development writer. So I help sales win counts, and it's just all around a good time. I'm here for Gen z. We're born in two thousand. A little scary for some people, I think. But, hopefully, we can dive in and show you that, you know, we're getting older. We're we're diving into the workforce. Love that. Thank you, Zoe, for joining the podcast today. And for the record, I myself am a I'm a millennial born in nineteen eighty four. So I think we got all the bases covered. Let's dive into topic one. And I wanna start with the academic perspective. We have a doctor on the call, before we dive into maybe more fun and games. But, doctor p, maybe share with us what the term generations even means and how academics would define them. Good question. So generations is kind of a a kinship amongst a group of people who were born and lived around the same time. If you look it up by, you know, dictionary, there are some dictionaries and scholarly documents that would define generation as about thirty years. But in the labor market, it is generally accepted to be around fifteen to twenty years. So, there's two concepts that you need to think about when you think about generation, or any human experience. There's something called an age cohort. So I belong to an age group, and we go through physiologically and cognitively the same kind of maturity and experience by age. So most humans hit puberty around age, you know, ten to thirteen. That's an age cohort experience. The generational concept deals with what did we experience during the time that we were growing up. So that's why you have five generations currently because the silent or the traditionalist grew up during a period of time, you know, pre World War two. And then the baby boomers are after World War two, thus the word baby boom. There's a boom in babies after World War two up until the early sixties, and we grew up, and there were things happening during that period of time. The generation x grew up during their formative years where things were happening during that period of time. And then the millennials and the generation z and the generation a, the next to come. So these generational cohorts have some kinship, were born around the same time. Generally speaking, these folks were born around this time. They had the same experiences, and we'll get into some of the details. So there are five generations in the workplace. Two generations academically are considered, like, fifteen to twenty years in the labor market. And there's five of us here, all with different programming, experiences, values, behaviors, etcetera. So that was really helpful, doctor p. And, you know, I'm glad you shared one of the things there because I'm I'm a millennial, but I don't relate, like you said, to everything that might be a stereotypical millennial. And then there's other things that I think a millennial will bring up, and I'll totally be vibing with it. Right? So to your point, it's not, it's not an absolute science, but there is a general pattern for what people experience and and how that kind of forms them. So that was awesome. Brett, there's a concept called cusp babies as well. People born on the the tail ends of the generational that that have some of the attributes of each of the generations. Yeah. So they're cusp babies. I'm a baby boomer, but I identify with the x's and the y's. So I'm a pretty hip and contemporary and forward thinking boomer. Yeah. You are. Yeah. As opposed to being more of a traditionalist and leaning backwards, I lean forward and lean into the the more contemporary generations. Oh, no. No. I was just gonna say, doctor Pien, Brad, I don't I don't know if you've seen this too. When we're having these generational conversations with our clients and hiring in the workplace, it's interesting to see how with each generation, the pendulum will kinda swing to the extreme. So if, baby boomers were maybe called the layaway generation, then Gen x tends to be really fiscally conservative. Millennials earn to spend, and then our Gen z ers are now really conservative in their spending and saving as well. So as we look at the different generations and the experiences, that whole idea of not wanting to be like your parents, you know, we see that a lot. So doctor p, I didn't know or or Brett if you had any thoughts on that. It does. I mean, as you grow up, you know, I don't wanna do what my parents did, so I kinda push the envelope. And then from an age cohort perspective, we all hit these cognitive epiphanies. You know, you get around age eleven. My parents don't know what they're talking about. By the time my brain fully matures for women in their early twenties, for men in their late twenties. But we have so much more in common than we think too. So, Brett, just to add to that, you know, with the influences, if if it's swinging both ways, you can really see the connections that you have with different generations as well in the workplace, so that's always exciting for us. What's interesting with end generations as well, talking about this bell curve and the differences, I think for Gen z, looking as an elder Gen z back on those in my generation who may still be in high school, who are still in college, I'm definitely seeing what you're talking about with, like, you know, we're not fully developed yet. Right? I am entering my mid twenties, and I'm noticing, you know, that I'm there's a disconnect. Right? So it will be interesting to see how Gen z develops and matures. And the rise of Gen Alpha, I think everyone's excited. Alpha, I'm afraid of. I don't know about I have no idea what they're gonna bring to the table. So Nicole, whether you're an HR professional or not, why do you think it matters to understand how different generations think? Tying this back to to our our jobs, right, our professions. Maybe we're managers. Why does it matter that we we actually care about understanding these generational generational differences that we just discussed. I love that. Thank you so much. I think as doctor p shared, we are in these environments together. And so hiring is so different post pandemic. And I think when we're having our conversations with our clients and understanding how to have all these generations in the workplace, how to work through all these differences, the things that matter are the human connection. The you know, we talk about our mission is to find, understand, and fulfill the needs of another. And so as a hiring manager and someone who wants to keep and retain your employees, if you don't have a million dollars to have, you know, a thousand ping pong tables within your organization, We can do with what we can with what we have, and so spending time to understand. So from what I've learned about Gen z, they appreciate authenticity and face to face interactions. And so whether you're a boomer or or a Gen x leader or a Gen z leader, having things in place that can cause you to have those conversations. Is it a thirty, sixty, or ninety day stay interview to make sure that when we're onboarding a new employee that they're getting that time that they deserve from the leadership within their organization. And so looking for those commonalities, people are not only staying in environments that have a Google, like, you know, cereal on every floor and a thousand coffee pods. We are learning more and more that people need relationships, and that involves understanding, understanding the people that we're working with, and then leaning into curiosity. So I don't have all the answers, but if I work next to doctor p every day and Zoe and you, I wanna understand what's important to them, what matters to them, and then how I can, as a leader, celebrate who they are and create that continuity amongst my team. Very cool. I mean, you once told me you can't attract talent you don't understand. And that resonated with me so well. Thank you. Zoey, you're a writer. So communication, it it's like your thing. Right? How does one tailor their communication in any medium, right, like writing, on the phone, in person? How does one tailor their communication to someone from another generation? Well, I think it's important to remember that even though there's some generational commonalities, it's always a case to case basis. It's always very individual. I think we talk a lot about without generations about introverts and extroverts. So there are those people who like to pick up the phone. There are those people who prefer text and email. So I think just going in with curiosity and open mind and getting to know the person for who they are is, very leading in how I communicate with people in my workplace. But, you know, it's it's good to I think for the younger generations, it's good for the younger generations to meet those in the older generations at their level because I think we often have the, ability to adapt. You know, like, we we're not completely incapable of picking up the phone. So I think just out of respect, I often find myself just doing what those who are, older than me prefer, because I understand, you know, sometimes a phone call is much quicker than going back and forth via text on Teams. Right? So, really developing wisdom from the experiences of, my older coworkers, when it comes to what gets this task done quickest and what's the most efficient way to share, you know, notes on an entire document. Do we wanna sit on the call for an hour, or do you wanna send me, you know, red lines and track changes? And, so it's been it's been interesting. I've only been, full fledged in the corporate workforce for about a year and a half, but I think I've already learned enough, to count for a decade just off of listening to my peers. And, Brent, you asked why is it important, not just anecdotally, but there is science behind this because we're dealing with humans. So humans have been studied since, you know, people could put pen to paper. There's a body of research called the service profit chain, that was commissioned by Harvard, done by Heskisch Schlesinger et al. There's about seven academicians, scholar practitioners doing the study. They quantitatively proved that when you engage an employee, their engagement goes up, their retention goes up, their productivity goes up, and they drew this model. When those things go up, your client or your constituent satisfaction goes up, their spend goes up, their referrals go up, and their retention goes up. So they built a business model. Then that's what we at ActOne government, that's what we provide the clients. We do everything evidence based. So we'll say, hey. This is a good idea, but here's the data to prove it, and here's the analytics that going forward, we can use to make adjustments. So what in that? So somebody would say then, what in the world must I do? So you need to create a good environment, one that's inclusive, relationship building, transparency, inclusivity, and then the work itself. And I think, you know, like the generation z or gig workers, we may get into that. You know, they don't wanna be managed chronologically. Manage me on my output and leave me alone. Awesome. Does anyone know is there any data that would, you know, prove or disprove this stereotype maybe that as you rise up the ranks of an organization, the older people will be. So the c suite, everyone's, you know, the older generations, and then the entry level, everyone is the gen gen z or or millennial. Do we have data that says that that's true or not true? I'd just be curious about that. I don't know from a data perspective, but I I think we talked about this on on our call. You're our president, and you're a millennial. And so I think for some of our clients right now in these discussions, Zoe brought it up. She's like, I'm twenty. Gen z is growing up. And so I think when we have these pockets in our head of our our millennials are in their forties right now, and they are running organizations or starting their organizations, and they're having an impact. And so there's outside of the data, we're seeing it each and every day where there's leaders and organizations from all all generations. And for us and for me here locally in the conversations that we have, when we are inviting people into our workplace, I think that there's this idea or this resistance that whoever is in leadership, no matter what generation you are, that you only have to fold and lean in and make all of the changes for the upcoming generation. But the conversation goes both ways. And so me as a a Gen x leader, when I have a conversation, I tell people, here's how I am as a leader. Here's what's important to me. Direct communication, being on time. If you're one minute late to a Zoom meeting, I wonder if you're okay. And so in those conversations outside of the what generation you fall in, understanding who you are and what you bring into the table and and leaning into those conversations. So it's not just I'm hiring you. You start on my team. I have to change everything, but here's who I am as a leader. Here's who you are as an a new employee, and I'm excited to get to know you. I was just on the phone with a Gen z who I'm getting ready to hire, and she said, thank you for having these conversations with me about who I am. It really matters. And so the idea that I was a Gen x boss didn't come up, but the fact that I was caring for who she was is what was allowed her to accept our role. And, Brett, there there is data. I don't have the data at my fingertips on generationally what it looks like at the management levels as you go up on organization. But I do know of the five generations in the workplace, only two percent of them are traditionalist. And generally speaking, they're born before nineteen forty seven. About eighteen, nineteen percent are baby boomers. Thirty five percent. The biggest generations are the y's and the z's combined. So y's are about thirty nine percent, z's are about seven percent. You combine that, that's the majority. I think anecdotally without having to bid at my fingertip, what you will see is even though you have these generations by percentages, the most senior levels are still occupied by the boomers and the traditionalist. At some point, that's gonna flip, and it's gonna be more gen y, z, and millennials that run corporations similar to women in the workplace. You know, it's probably over fifty percent of the labor market is female. But when you look at the executive levels, it's still dominated by men. That's gonna change at some point. So I have some numbers. I would invite your listeners to email me, and I'll send them links to data that'll have them reading for the rest of their lives. So Zoe, did you have a comment? Yeah. I just wanted to comment on, just my personal experience. So in college, I I noticed, that as we got older, a lot of people, they either started their own nonprofits, they are engaging in startups, sometimes even creating their own. And I think that brings us back to the gig economy and this idea that Gen z, doesn't like to be micromanaged, would rather, you know, have a little bit more control of their experience. But I also think that, the assumption that it's all ambition based is a little bit misguided just because, in some ways, it's just us trying to create our own experience because of the difficult job market. Sometimes it's out of survival. You know? These gigs, such as Uber, I think we've mentioned before, in previous conversation that people like to drive Uber because they feel like their own boss, but I also feel like we're missing, the element of that, which is, sometimes we're motivated by the threat of survival. Right? So Gen z has entered into a really hectic, economy as far as the labor side. Right? Maybe businesses are flourishing, but we're having our own difficulties, getting by. So while it's really admirable to see the initiative that many of my peers have taken, I understand that the motivation also comes from, this idea of, will I ever own a house, stuff like that that I think the millennials, carved the way for that discussion. Right? I'm convicted when you talk, Zoe, because I do I did think that the the gig economy existed because of that desire for choice and that desire for autonomy in the workplace. And so hearing your perspective on that convicts me as a leader and and just a person that I didn't put it in the survival bucket. So I really appreciate the way that you communicated that because it gives me a different way to look at things, from my perspective too. So thank you. What did they say? The struggle is real? Right? The struggle is real. Yeah. Yes. So, Zoe, I think you you opened up my eyes too because I think we do idealize the idea of, you know, people can just or the democratization. We can just start our own businesses. But sometimes this is out of necessity. It's not always just out of self realization. Right? Which is the highest level of that pyramid. Sometimes we haven't made it that high on the pyramid. Let's keep this somewhat business focused, but let's get a little controversial just for fun. You guys up for that? Heck yeah. So we'll start with doctor p, but I'm gonna come to all of you with this. What do you think are the stereotypes that your generation has amongst the other generations, when it comes to hiring and working with them? Oh, so I'm gonna look younger because my generation and I cannot speak for the entire baby boom, you know, generation. But so I'm gonna have to be somewhat put that out there that this is my opinion, that I think the the traditionalists are just holding on for dear life until they transition. But looking down, I think that, especially when you think about the millennials and the z's, which constitute the majority of the labor market, almost fifty percent and trending to be sixty percent in the next few years, that they're selfish. They have the inability to critically think or communicate, and they're very sensitive. Now I, as a social scientist, understand that because I read about it and I interact with them. So I don't put a negative connotation on it. Like the self interest is about survival. I have to get done what I have to get done. They also saw the older generations kind of be, over manipulated by the system in air quotes, and they're not gonna tolerate it. I do think that they need to have the ability to more critically think. Think about AI. Artificial intelligence without human capital intervention is fantasy. So they will always and I watch as I'm walking around. I watch the millennials and the y's and the z's and the a's. All they do is type with their head down. And my thing is look up because life is before you stop living in this smart device. So some of the things I think are real. When I think about sensitive, I I understand this, that my generation, we were not inundated inundated with a lot of external stimuli. Life was simple. Five television stations that went off at night. There were no microwaves. My mom and my dad cooked or they allowed me to play cook in the kitchen, and we actually cooked. Everything is fast now for the disease, the millennials, and disease. That's how they were trained. That was their experiences at their most, when they were in their formative years, and that's all they know. So the mental health sensitivity issues, I get it. It's like, hey, by the time I look up from my phone, the world has changed. If I look at the news, it is the sky is falling chicken little, and I don't even know who's gonna be here tomorrow. So they are over inundated with stimuli to say worry, worry, worry. And as a result, at least the ones I speak to, there's a lot of millennials and a lot of z's that have, counselors. You know, I'm gonna bring that up to my counselor and my generation. We never thought about counselors. You know, when we had a problem with, attention deficit in the class, the belt got a slap upside the head was the the medicine we received. So, again, I'm gonna summarize. My generation looking down, sensitive, You know, the the term work life balance was born with generation wise. What work life balance? So I'm speaking from a boomer. Get the job done. Stop complaining. Stop whining. Stop being sensitive. Critically think. Look up and talk about the data. Stop looking for everything in your phone. AI without human capital intervention is fantasy. You must think. Doctor p, no one can accuse you of not keeping it real just now. Alright. Let's let's move down to, Nicole. I say down because the boxes are organized with Nicole below doctor p. Not that you are below doctor p, but let's move down with it. Age. I thought it was generationally. I was fine with it. Let me generation. Yes. Let's move down to to Nicole. What do you think are some of the stereotypes your generation has? And you're sitting in the middle here. So with the older generation and with the younger generations. Yeah. So for me, being a a Gen Xer and loving voice mail, I love to call people and leave a two minute voice mail. Me and my best friend do it all the time. And so for the younger generation that I have in my workplace, that might be something that's an adjustment. You can send me a text, but I'm always gonna pick up the phone to call you. Stereotypically, when I am on a call with you and your face isn't there, that's really hard for me. I didn't grow up on Zoom calls or in the generation that did that. We had AOL and chat rooms. And so, generationally, I think my generation specifically and speaking from the perspective of of Nicole as doctor p shared, having that face to face interaction is really important. You'll see memes on on Instagram where they talk about Gen Zers when we log into a call. We're like, good morning, everyone. How was your weekend? And then you go to the Gen x and camera's off and and maybe no one's talking until, right, called upon. And so that that relational value is really important. I grew up with a gateway computer that arrived to my sorority house, and when I brought that cow box out upstairs, I was the coolest person in my sorority. And so the the digital movement that we've had, I think there's adjustments, but there's often jokes about my ability to incorporate technology in Excel, or or different things that I'm using. I know that's not true for everybody in my generation, but at least in our office, there's been some fun times where, I've been schooled on on better ways to do things. And then I think the level of directness, Gen z, a lot of the our generation excuse me, Gen x. A lot of Gen x grew up as latchkey kids where we came home, made our own lunches. I know I had to take care of everything that I needed until my parents came home from work, and so that survivalist comes through. And so as doctor p shared from our leadership perspective, it's let's just get it done as well. We have work to do, and that level of directness, I think, sometimes, again, appears in a lot of memes and and offers a a lot of areas for opportunity for humor in the workplace. Alright. Zoe, why don't you tell us what you think the common stereotypes are your generation has amongst us older generations. Yeah. I think this is a very subjective topic as well. The general idea that I hear, is older generations tend to be more rigid. I think we addressed that with, Doctor. P earlier. Expect exact promptness. I really appreciated Nicole when you said you actually worry about us and we're one minute late. But I think for us, we're like, hey, one second. We're we're we're it's it's alright. And just being a little bit too absorbed in work life. Whatever stereotypes Americans have for the French, just think the opposite, and that's probably the stereotype we have for the older generations. But the more rigid you are, I also think the more you care about your work, and that's why. So I've come into this with a little bit more grace, I think, especially working with the ActOne group and with AppleOne. I think a lot of my coworkers, have given me insight about why promptness is important, why it's respectful. Right? However, I think a lot of Gen z looks up to millennials as sort of our big siblings. And we can see that as I think Brett's mentioned before that millennials paved the way to a more flexible and balanced work life culture. So I think Gen z, we're kind of collecting all perspectives, and as we get older, things might shift. I've had varied experiences and I think most of the older generation, are very receptive whenever I do have a boundary to set or I do have, you know, anything that's just an understandable life happening that you just sometimes you got to take a step away from your desk. Right? In a recent team call, my co worker and fellow Gen Z or Abigail, I mentioned seeing in the New York Post that most managers agree Gen Z is hard to work with, but I think this is a two way street. I also found a headline from CNBC talking about how seventy percent of Gen z and millennials are considering leaving their jobs. At the end of the day, it comes down to incompatibility. Alongside, you know, we talked about how we have a bit of a weak labor market as far as the employer side, like, without understanding Gen z's motivations, for, like, survival. I think sometimes people of the older generations can see us as selfish or, not with, like, not having a lot of focus, but I think sometimes we're just a little strung out and, the younger generations feel a bit overworked, compared to previous generations who had lower cost of living. And I think this is a leading factor in the generational divide. I don't think it's necessarily a personal dispute or, anything malicious. But, yeah, we have always to go, and, I'm actually really hopeful. Very insightful. That was awesome. Love the way you talk. Yeah. Zoe, we are blessed to have you. You are really just fantastic. You're intelligent, and I really enjoy listening to you. Alright. I wanna try something with our guests before we go called Whip Around. And they're not prepared for this. We didn't prep for this. But I the purpose of whip around is to find out if we're more alike than we think. Alright? So I'm gonna I'm gonna let's do this first. I'm gonna bring up a word, and you can't explain. You just have to tell me if that word gives you a positive, a neutral, or negative reaction. Okay? And we'll just go and order Zoey Nicole doctor p, and I'm just gonna bring up the word, and all you can say is positive, neutral, or negative. You guys ready? Sure. Yes. Alright. Let's do it. Cryptocurrency. Negative. Positive. Negative. Negative. Okay. Interesting. Bike lanes. Positive. Neutral? Positive. Positive. Positive. Yes. AI. Negative. Negative neutral. Positive. Neutral. But, obviously, I wish I could explain, but I can't. I have to follow my own rules. Okay. Here's a fun one. Coachella. Neutral? I don't know what it is. So sorry. So I guess that's neutral. Doctor p? Neutral. Alright. I'm shoot. I'm not supposed to explain. Highly positive at one point and now negative. But that's maybe the millennial, my age group. Telehealth. Positive. Positive. Negative. Positive. Maybe a generational thing there. Vegas. Neutral. My dad lives there neutral. Negative. My mom lives there. Neutral. Hey. How about that, Nicole? There he is. The Oscars. Neutral. Neutral. Negative. Positive, but maybe it's because I I'm born and raised in Southern California. I feel like it's part of our economy. Fully remote work. Positive. Neutral negative. Positive. Neutral negative. The Olive Garden. Positive. Positive. Positive. Alright. We got one. We can all agree on breadsticks. We got picnic salad. Yes. Yes. Okay. We got a banana salad. There's something for everyone at the Olive Garden. Marky Mark and the funky bunch. I just said that for Nicole. No one has to answer that question. I will need to know positive. Alright. That was fun. That was whip around. Other questions in the whip around spirit, and then we'll we'll close. How many days a week do you check social media, Zoe? Every day. Nicole? Every day. Doctor p? Every day. Oh, we have a lot in common. So I check LinkedIn every day, but I'm that one weird person who, like, at one point just totally just none. So I actually I'd be zero if it wasn't for LinkedIn, which is for business purposes. Next one. Do you regularly consume the news? And if so, do you get it from TV, a publication, or social media? Mostly social media, but I go to the article links. Very good. Nicole? I don't personally love the news unless it's something staffing related, and my husband will normally update me on things that he wants to talk about at dinner. Alright. Doctor p? Don't watch it. Alright. So you don't whether it's a a newspaper, TV, nothing. I check the news thirty seconds every day. Only for this. I'll go to CNN, Fox, or any news network and see if they're at commercial break or if there's some breaking news. I'll stop and I'll listen. If they're at commercial break, I turn off the television and I say to myself, we still have a planet. And then I go about my business. Otherwise, it would be broadcasting no major catastrophe. So I I think it's negative programming because the news actually reports the weather in a negative place. Interesting. Yeah. I don't listen to the spin. If I do do something, I'll read an article and then I'll move on. And I watch C SPAN constantly. It's always on in the corner. I do the same thing, Brett. I I highlight, but not to the I don't want I don't want I wanna approach each day as if it's a gift and really enjoy the people around me, and I don't wanna be cast into worry or fear starting off my morning. Right. I like it. Last one. What is your idea of a great weekend, Zoe? Dancing with friends. For me, it's being with my kids and doing some type of family activity and then serving in the community. We're really involved in church, and I love that too. Doctor p? Riding that Harley Davidson, baby. I gotta love it. For me, I would say getting some exercise in the morning, watching some sports with friends in the afternoon, and then maybe watching a movie with my wife to finish the day off, getting to bed by eleven something. You know, that that's me. That's a good that's a good Saturday. Guys, I had so much fun talking to all of you. I think there was some wonderful insight for our listeners who who come to us for business purposes. But I also think we we ended this show off with, finding out that we have a lot in common, and our differences aren't that bad. Right? It's not as antagonistic as I think you know, we were talking about the news earlier. It's not as antagonistic as people make it seem. I think we all really do like each other. So thank you, and I enjoyed this. Thanks, guys. Alright, folks. I hope you enjoyed the candid and useful conversation we had today. If you have any questions or thoughts, you wanna share, make sure to reach out to any of our esteemed guests. Doctor p, you are quite the reputable consultant and trainer. How can someone get in touch with you? M perkins at a I n, the number one, dot com, or connect, with me on LinkedIn. Just make sure it's Milton j Perkins because there's a couple of Perkins Milton Perkins out there. Milton j Perkins, make sure it's the doctor, and, I'll I'll respond. Will the real Milton Perkins please stand up? Nicole, are you open to folks reaching out to you if they'd like to? Absolutely. So the best way to get a hold of me is our phone line, which is four zero seven seven eight six six four one one. That's our local Apple One office. Or you can email me at n mcmurray at apple one, and that's a p p l e o n e, like the fruit in the number spelled out, dot com. If you need anything from us at the Apple One podcast, just remember we are hiring made human. So please reach out. Don't be shy. And your feedback will help going towards me always creating content that will be useful and relevant to you and fun. So thank you for listening.