Navigating Layoffs with Positivity and Purpose: A Marketers Perspective

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Pro AV today. You might notice that I'm not in my normal studio. I'm actually in a different one today. But that's because my next guest is in my normal studio. And that's Michelle Okeke coming on the show today. Today shows a little bit more kinda relaxed and free flowing than than most of the episodes of Pro AV today. Because it's gonna be more about Michelle and her experiences in life and and asking questions and hopefully, having some good conversations that are creating value. Really for people, across not only our industry, but across other industries. So before we dig in, Michelle, we appreciate you coming on the show. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Ben. I'm happy to be here. Well, look, Michelle, you're you're one of the most positive people I know. And I I love every time we get to have a conversation. And every time we do, I think that I need to push record on it. We finally got a chance to do that. So, you know, really, before we dig in super deep into some of the topics, just tell people a little bit about who you are and maybe some of the ways that that you kinda got into the the industry and where you and why you got to the point you are now. Yeah. So so I'm a marketer. Through and through. I started my career in an advertising agency, and I, the last place that I worked was in Pro AV, at Bowes working in the pro division. And so I have had a very wide and varied career over the last twelve years, but the thing that has remained constant throughout everything that I've done, every job that I've had, is always figuring out who the people that we're talking to? In other words, who is the customer, who is the consumer, and what are the messages that will most resonate with them? And so, whether I was working at an ad agency on accounts like Viagra or Praseq two very different drugs. Oh, totally different audiences. Very different. Or working at Bose, serving the house of worship market in the pro division, my goal was always to figure out who is this audience, what motivates them, what are their pain points, what does success look like, and how can we tell a message about our product or service, or partnership that best meets them right where at. And so, that's what I've done over the last twelve years. I've worked in between those two, those two spots that I mentioned. I've also worked at Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, Essence, The Root, Time Inc. Like, I've been everywhere. In tech and publishing, and consumer electronics, and and now I'm looking for my next opportunity, and so that's kind of what we're here to talk about is how I got to this place. Unfortunately, through something that was completely out of my control, but something that has created an opportunity for me to flex my skills that I've learned, and also figure out what I really wanna do, what I really want my life to look like for the next for the next chapter. So, so really happy to be chatting with you about it. And I hope that this conversation can either help somebody who's going through this right now because I know a lot of us in this industry have either experienced a layoff or know somebody who has or is married to somebody who has or has a sister or brother who's experienced that, and so hopefully this conversation will either help you and encourage you or it can give you wors of encouragement that you can share with those in your circle. Well, Michelle, we we appreciate your story story already, and I think it's so helpful to to have just some context of your background. And one of the the constants not only in marketing, but really technology in b to b as a whole is that there's constant that change. Right? Especially in the last three to five years, you know, whether that's change in innovation, whether that's change in leadership structure, you've seen tons of mergers and acquisitions, so many things that are that are just look a lot different than they did. Right? And and one of the challenges, unfortunately, with a lot of folks has been, as these restructurings, as these changes have occurred, is that they've they've been let go. Right? Sometimes like you mentioned through no fault of their own. But the reality is that that change is constant. Yes. But there's a lot that we can do with it. Right? And and I don't wanna I don't wanna focus too much on the doom and gloom side. Obviously, we wanna understand and and heal or your perspective on that. But I've been following along with some of the work you've been doing on LinkedIn. You've taken this opportunity really to to speak at different agents and trade shows, and really elevate your voice in a way that you might not have been able to before. But, you know, let let's talk at a high level really to to some of those people, maybe who have been let go or maybe are feeling like they've they've done some things to to deserve it or or whatever. Just talk a little bit about that mindset. Right? Obviously, when you hear about lay off. It just there's so many things that go through your head. Talk about that mindset, especially right after it happens in some of the ways maybe that that folks process through it. I mean, my situation was a little unique, and so I don't wanna assume that anyone else will experience exactly what I experienced. But I have to tell you, the way that things happened that week that was gonna be my last week at Bose, was divine. There's just no other way to put it. Because I tell you right now, we were notified that I was gonna we were gonna be laid off group of us that were gonna be, our positions were gonna be eliminated, we were notified collectively, the end of February. Right? And we were told that it was gonna happen or our positions would be eliminated at the end of March. So we had about a month to figure things out. And so in that span, you know, everyone is like, okay, figuring out, well, okay, what are we gonna do here next? What are we gonna do next? However, for me, I had already booked an opportunity to speak at the American Marketing Association's collegiate Conference which was going to be March thirtieth and thirty first. So I had already booked that, like, December of the prior year, December of last year, and I had already, you know, gotten the time off from my manager, I had put it on the calendars, it was already there, So I was already planning to do that. What I didn't know was that when I was doing that, that was going to also happen at the very same time that I was going to be losing my full time employment. And so funny enough, the thing that I was talking about at the conference was networking, and trust, and how that has been the thing that has kept me afloat and buoyed my attitude, buoyed my outlook, through the last four layoffs that I've endured, because I have endured four different layoffs at four different companies at four different times in my life. And so the plan was to talk about how I had leveraged my network and my faith to keep me moving. So what I didn't know was, at the same time that I was going to be giving that talk, I was going to be living that again. And so it just became this, like, really ironic beautiful moment where I on the stage Speaking to a crowd of like thirteen hundred people, I just let them know, Hey, guys, this is how I got through the last four layoffs in my life. And I'm currently going through it again. I was just laid off, and this is like my last day at my job. And I'm currently experiencing a layoff again, but I have the tools to get through this. I know the formula to make it through this. Because I've done it before, and so I have a lot of confidence in the ability to do this again. And in my God who's helped me in the past, and in my network who's helped me in the past to get my next opportunity. So for me, for me, there was already things brewing in the background, when I had been told about the layoff. And so for those listening, maybe it's not that immediate, right? Maybe there's not already something lined up for you, But there are people in your life right now who are holding the keys to your next opportunity, and there are there are things that you could be doing with the skills that you've acquired over the last two, five, ten years of your career that you can activate now that you're gonna have some to think about what you really wanna do. So for me, it became speaking because right after that opportunity, Right after I spoke at that conference, I got offstage, and one of the Board of Directors for the American Marketing Association, came up to me and was like, this is what you're supposed to be doing. It was like, she's like, you don't need to go look for another job. This is what you need to be doing. You could be making x amount of money twenty I think she's like ten thousand, fifteen thousand dollars, an an an hour, an engagement, doing what you just did. And she was like, you really need to lean into that because this is an opportunity for you. And so she gave me the confidence to say, maybe this is something that I could do, and she poured into me and activated this thing that had been there the entire time throughout my career. So again, it doesn't have to be speaking for you. It could be creating presentations. It could be data analysis. It could be marketing strategy, it could be whatever the thing whatever the thing is that you've been doing for a company, there is an opportunity for you to now do it for yourself and figure out how you can, again, leverage those skills to create another another lane, another opportunity, another pathway in this next chapter. So so, yeah, that's kinda how it's been for me. Well, that's such incredible insight really to hear too. And, you know, you talk a lot about whether it's speaking, whether it's creating content, whether it's doubling down on things like LinkedIn, Twitter, social channels, you know, focus on that a little bit. Right? I think one of the things that we've seen over the last few years is is this dramatic shift towards folks really becoming their own thought leader. And that being one of the things that continues to drive them through whether it's a job search, whether it's -- Yeah. -- maybe a promotion, next step, things like that. Even on a high level, talk about the importance of you know, some of that personal branding to help kind of get through some of these situations. Yeah. Well, the thing about personal branding is as you're branding yourself, you're educating someone else. Right? Like, as you brand yourself as a person who was a thought leader on, let's say networking, you have to think, yes, there are some people out here who know this. And and I'm maybe speaking to the choir. But there are also people who don't, who I can't assume that even though this information is normal to me, or is commonplace to me, I can't assume that everyone has access to the same information. In fact, I know everyone does not have access to the same information. So I think about personal branding as an opportunity not to just establish who I am and the things that I'm skilled in and and have expertise in and experiencing, but it's really an opportunity to educate people who otherwise may never hear the words that I have to share or or may never get the information that I have. If I don't share it with them. Right? I'm in a network of folks who maybe you aren't in the network of, right? Ben like, we have different networks. And so maybe people in my network haven't necessarily heard someone say, talk about networking in the way that I talk about it, or talk about, you know, transitioning during layoffs in the way that I talk about it, or talk about being a mother while working in corporate America in the way that I talk about and so maybe hearing those words from me, maybe it'll hit different, maybe it'll maybe it will resonate. And you have to understand Personal branding is nothing if it's not valuable to anyone. It's not just about sitting up here and creating this brand and being this person and having this personality. It's like, what does all that mean if you're not actually helping anyone? So for me, my brand is all about engaging with people, connecting with people, educating people, and then, in turn, creating value that becomes equity that I can draw from. Perfect example is, when I spoke at this conference for the American marketing association, I posted about it on LinkedIn, I tagged a couple people, and then I started getting tagged from people who had attended the event, because they saw me on LinkedIn and they found me, and and so now that they knew me, they tagged me and talked about how valuable my presentation had been. And then from that, someone else reached out to me and was like, oh, you speak about this, we'd love to have you come speak at our college about that same topic. Right? Because it would be valuable to our audience. So again, I don't believe in personal branding, just for the sake of personal branding. I think there's a lot of brands out here, and and they're all well and good, but some of them don't really have any value. For me, it's all about when you're creating your personal brand, Think about the value that you're creating for somebody else because that value is then what makes you attractive for future opportunities, not just your brand. Like I can already hear people saying, oh, she's a marketer. This is her lane. Oh, the you know, that kind of floaty stuff, but especially both of us are folks who have been in B2B for a while, right? This trickles down to the engineers. This trickles down to the blue collar workers, this trickles down to everybody. Right? It's important for those folks, whether it's on LinkedIn, social channels, chats, you know, message boards, whatever, to be active and be involved. Right? Talk about some of those people maybe that that are, what I'll call, non traditional video, social type folks, how can people like that really walk through some of these seasons? I think talking about what you're passionate about makes you makes you qualified. I don't think you have to be a marketer. If you're an engineer, if you're a nurse, if you are, if you work in hospitality, housekeeping, if you whatever industry you're in, if there's something that you know that you can speak about passionately, That's what makes you qualified to talk about it because people will be drawn to your passion. You don't have to be don't have to be a trained speaker. You don't have to be a trained marketer. Just be someone who cares about what you're talking about because I guarantee There are several other people who care about that same thing and who'll be drawn to you because of that, because of that connection that you have over whatever it might be, Again, it could be anything, it can be cars, it can be cooking, it can be it can be cleaning, right? If you've got like a particular hack on how to clean, efficiently, quickly, whatever the thing is, again, just being able to speak passionately about it allows people to see that you are someone who knows who's knowledgeable, who cares about what they know, and who's willing to share it with other people. And so in that way, everyone can be a marketer, everyone can tell a story that resonates with people because you're talking about something that that matters to you and more often than not, it will matter to a lot more people too. I always love to say everybody's a marketer of something. Right? And -- Exactly. -- especially when it comes job searching when it comes to career paths, you have to be a marketer of yourself, before you can be a good marketer of anything else. Right? And that doesn't mean self promoting social posts that doesn't mean you even have to go speak, right? But I love to always -- my wife got me hooked on TikTok, right? But I love scrolling through and seeing the grandpas who just got, you know, a Trader Grill for the first time, who are teaching people how to smoke brisket or folks that are in the arts and creative industries teaching people how to paint or heaven forbid makeup tutorials, right? Haven't forbid pickup tutorials. But there are people that are talking about what makes them -- what they're passionate about -- and that helps elevate their brand, right? In some cases, it is their career path, right? There are people who are creating, but I want to focus a little bit more on the job search a little now, because the way that people have have searched for jobs post layoffs has kind of evolved, right? And a lot of it is included, some of that digital footprint, some of those self marketing techniques, things like that, talk about, you know, especially right what does that job search look like for you? Maybe what are some of the things that have helped you stand out and maybe ahead of other candidates? Yeah. Let me tell you, it's been rough. It has been rough. You know, you're you're in a space where you're competing with thousands upon thousands of people who've also been laid off. Plus, the folks who are also just looking for jobs who haven't been laid off and maybe are in a nice cushy job but are looking for something else. Right? So you're literally up against what feels like an impossible amount of competition. Everyone is qualified, everyone is skilled, everyone is experienced, and then you tack on the ability to work remotely, then it's like, these people aren't even in my fifty mile radius. I'm I'm competing with somebody in Montana. You know what I mean? And so it it gets to this point where you're just it feels a little hopeless because you're putting in applications every day, which is what I've been doing, You're reaching out to recruiters on LinkedIn, you're reaching out to your network, and so I will say it has been hard. I will never sugar coat that. This has been a really trying time when it comes to that. But the things that have helped me is again my network. I have had people who have literally just sent folks my way, not even telling me that they're going to. Just be just sending in me an email and being like, hey, such and such, I want to connect you with Michelle Okeke, she's a marketer, she's done this, this, and this. She's been here. Here's her resume, like I think you guys should connect, and I'm just like, what? You know, not even having to ask for that. Just people who know me, who who know my work, who I've worked with, or who trust me, who are willing to vouch for me, and in rooms I've never been in or in on email chains I've never asked to be on. You know what I mean? So it's really been my network, and I think a lot of us you know, again, we are all very qualified, very skilled, and we all probably have very similar networks. But that for me, that has been the end that has helped me establish or at least land interviews, second, third, fourth round interviews, and even though nothing has currently panned out, I do believe that it will be through someone in my network doing exactly what they're doing now, that would at least help me get in somewhere. I obviously will still have to, you know, be good enough to get the job, but again so many of us are and it's just, at this point what I really believe is what for me is for me, and does it matter how many candidates there are? Does it matter how many qualified? How much qualified competition I'm up against? Whatever job it is for me is for me, and the same thing goes for whoever else is looking for a job. Whatever job is for you, is for you. So every rejection that you get during the season, every know that you get, every automated reply, every ghost, every no reply, just take it as as being that that particular role or position or company wasn't for you. And and whatever is for you is still out there. And so that is what has kept me hopeful. I've had some really, really really big disappointments when it came to that where I was on, like, the fourth interview when it was like a shoe win and, you know, this was my gig. I I was already planning trips out to Chicago to meet the team and thinking about all this and that, and then stuff just, you know, didn't pan out. And it was really hard, but I just had to remind myself that that job just wasn't for me. For whatever reason, even though it felt like it was, it just wasn't for me. And my job is still out there. My opportunity is still out there. So keep doing what you're doing, doing all the things that I know you're doing because I'm doing them too. But at the end of the day, just know that that work is not in vain. All those conversations not in vain. You never know who's gonna call you back and be like, oh, this other opportunity popped up. We'd love to have you come in for it. You know, you just never know. So just stay hungry, keep hustling, and just believe your job really still is is out there. Well, I love your optimism, and one of the things too, we both you and I are in the DFW area down here in Texas, and I always encourage people to join groups, find ways whether it's through church, whether it's through local organizations, businesses, find ways to continue to connect with people. You're because you're exactly right. The jobs that have that have come, you know, my way historically have not been through jobs that I've necessarily directly for, right? They're through network connections, they're through people that know something or know of something that's coming up. And really, really more than anything, honestly, Michelle, I so appreciate your optimism, right? Because it's very easy, and you see it on LinkedIn all the time, right? You see these people that are just kind of haters, that are upset in their situations, and many times rightfully so. Right? But I love your optimism. I love your work ethic and continuing to really push forward in transparently probably one of the more challenging times of any of our lives. But, you know, I'll I'll give you the last word here. I mean, if you had maybe one or two things to share with with folks who maybe are a little bit more disappointed in their job search and their job hunt. What are what are a couple of things that you you wanted to share with them? It's something that I I'm telling myself as I tell you, but I would say, bet on yourself. Bet on yourself. I see a lot of folks on LinkedIn who are using this time, these layoffs to start their own company. Open their own record shop. Finally, open up that coffee shop that they've been thinking about, or finally pick up that guitar and start recording music. And it's something that I've really, really been thinking about, like, what does that look like for me? And so I would say, as you're searching for as you're searching for another company and another person to work for, think about what you can be doing, you can be doing for yourself. Think about what you can be doing to invest in yourself and during this season because you will always have you, you know, you're all you got. These companies, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. There will always be constant change and fluctuation in the in the market. There will always be volatility depending on how our economy is going, and so the only thing that you can really bet on is you. So use this time to invest in yourself, invest in your passion, you know, take out a small business loan, try something new. Just invest in yourself because you will never ever regret it. And you may never have this time back, right? This freedom, this opportunity to take that risk, take that bet. So, Keep doing what you're doing to look for a job, but also think about how you can look for for how you can invest in yourself. Well, Michelle, look, we we love getting the chance to chat with you, you and I have known each other for a few years now, and we've always had incredible conversations. I'm glad we got the chance finally to to have it on video. Really? You know, I will say this. It's it's inspiring to be around you. It's inspiring to hear your story and Whether you know it or not, you are impacting people on a a daily basis, and we appreciate you coming on and impacting some of those folks who are tuning in today. Thank you. I really appreciate this, Ben, and I hope that it was helpful. If you all have more questions for me, you can always find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Instagram, Michelle, and Okeke, and I'm open to any questions about about getting through the layoff season or you know, how to how to bet on yourself, how to invest in yourself, but mostly just to connect and meet new people and build relationships, so feel free to reach out. Well, it was an amazing conversation, and we also appreciate you all for tuning in today. Be sure to watch Pro AV today in the future. We love seeing you guys jump in the comments respond back. But we also love having folks like Michelle on. So if there's anybody you'd love to see on the show, we'd love to have him on and elevate the voices of our technology and b to b Thanks so much for tuning. We'll see you next time. Bye.