Hiring Made Human: A Career in Sales

People choose sales as a career and a profession for a lot of good reasons. It gives you the opportunity to learn a lot about all kinds of different companies and to be able to meet a lot of people, create compelling solutions that really help them drive their business, and it's absolutely worthwhile. But it's not without a lot of hard work and discipline. Welcome to the Apple One podcast. I am your host, Brett Howroy. This podcast contains three different running series, and today, you're listening to our career paths series, where we go deep and wide into what an individual career is like. We will have honest conversations with professionals about what they do to help inform you to make great career choices for yourself. But honestly, I reserve the right to go down whatever rabbit hole or tangent I find interesting. So let's get started with today's topic, the birth of a salesperson. So on the Apple One podcast, we do like to leverage the fact that we're part of a bigger organization called the Act One Group, and we have so much great talent who can come and join us and talk about their experiences. So that's what I'm doing today. Today, I brought two legendary salespeople onto the show. Stacy Habegger, who is our chief sales officer, and Kim Bell, two people who I think are gonna share some great insights today. So let's start with Stacy, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your journey into becoming who you are today as a salesperson? Thank you. Well, I'm Stacy Habegger, and I'm the chief sales officer for the ActOne Group. I am a career salesperson. I never planned on being in sales. I when I went to college, I wasn't exactly sure what I was going to do, so I I picked psychology and, as a major. And and it wasn't too far down along, my educational journey that I knew that that that wasn't where I was really going to end up. But, you know, I I wanted to feel my way through, life's experiences, and and I thought that that ultimately would led me lead me on the right path. And so not unlike many other college students, I I needed a job. I needed to a way to survive in order to put myself through school. And, one day, I walked into a hair salon and asked for an opportunity to be their receptionist. And so I was doing that while I was in school, and what I noticed was that the the salon sold some products that were, you know, natural, tools for people who were, you know, going through a a a beauty transformation. So they were, you know, hairsprays and and and hair products and then some light cosmetics. And so when people would finish their treatments and they would come over to the, register, I would say, oh, why don't we why don't we try a a lipstick on to go with that new hairdo? And doing that, I didn't realize that what I was actually doing was selling. And that that led me to work directly with the, the owner of the salon, and we decided to expand that a little bit further. And we we kind of did some, customized cosmetics, and all of a sudden, the sales started to go up. And, really, about a year into it, the, the owner realized that the main income that was coming from the salon was coming from the retail as opposed to all of the the the treatments. So we decided that instead of just being a receptionist, that I would sort of take over that, that position as the a makeup artist, which was really a salesperson, though I didn't realize that at the time. And I started to hire a couple of more makeup artists, and soon I had five. And then we did so well that we opened another salon, and we we did the same thing. And after a while, I was I found myself working, you know, fifty, sometimes sixty hours a week between both hair salons because I discovered commission, which is the best part of being a salesperson. And so one day, I had this light bulb that came on that that it occurred to me, oh my oh my gosh. I'm a salesperson, and this is this is what I was really born to do, which once I graduated, I realized that, you know, the next step for me would be corporate sales, and that's that's really where I started. Kim, why don't you share your journey with us also and make sure you share how you got into sales? So thank you for that. My story, I don't think is quite as straightforward as Stacy's. I've been working since I was sixteen years old, and I would say my first foray into sales was working for Baskin Robbins and being schooled on how to upsell to the Banana Royale from a single scoop. And I was also, in that job, my my my two years with Baskin Robbins, I learned how to decorate cakes. And Baskin Robbins had set ways that you needed to decorate cakes. So there was, like, there was a the rainbow cake, and you had to do three puffs for the cloud. There was three colors you did for the rainbow and then you wrote happy birthday or whatever it was. Well, I started mixing my own colors and making the cloud bigger, and then I have the sun, and I put earrings on the sun and the little beret. And, my cakes were selling, but they weren't regulation. So that was short lived. They weren't asking Robins regulation. But then I went on. I I were I've had so many different jobs. And when I think about it now, there was a sales aspect everyone, even if I wasn't called, similar to Stacy, like a salesperson. So I worked for the local newspaper, when when days of the paperboy, when the the people wouldn't get their newspaper, I was selling because they were calling and they were unhappy, and I was selling them on the fact that it was gonna be okay and they were gonna get their papers. So there's always been a, like, set of sales aspect to every job that I have. After college, and I worked through college as well, I sold ads for the, the the college newspaper. I got a degree in journalism, and my dream was to be in advertising. And this is gonna be an old school reference so you people can Google it, but I wanted to be Darren Stevens on Bewitched. I wanted to be the person coming up with the fun ideas for advertising. So after college, I went and I got a job at an ad agency down in Santa Monica, and I was so excited. I was I was the receptionist, and that was my start. And I quickly learned that advertising wasn't just about coming up with fun ideas, and the mechanics of it and the technical part of it just I I it just it wasn't it wasn't for me. Well, coincidentally, at that same time, my parents were opening a Mexican restaurant. And I was not happy at my job, so my mom said, you know what? Our restaurant's starting to get busy. Will you come work here? So I worked at a Mexican restaurant, and I I think I've shared this with some of you before. One thing that I know I'm really good at is I can get anyone to put guacamole on anything. And that's really one of my claims to fame at Joanna Phoenix. So while I was where I was working there, and I I was selling. You know, you're that's what you're doing in a restaurant. And, you know, Stacy talked about commissions. Well, commissions were tips, back then. So I definitely learned about the the advantage to being nice, listening, paying attention, knowing who your customers were, all these, like, early lessons learned without even realizing it. So for one of our listeners who's interested in, let's say, following in in one of your footsteps, why don't you explain the difference between b to c and b to b, and then maybe the differences between the experience of being a salesperson either way. Yes. I I'm happy to do that, and I can share with you. So b to c, business to consumer, b to b, business to business. Obviously, if if I share my story of working, in a restaurant, it was very much a b to c, business to consumer. I'm hungry. I'm gonna get sell you a taco with guacamole on it. B to b is definitely more, complex. It's, complicated. It's usually a there's usually a higher reward, financially. But selling business to business requires many more, decision makers, voices, and, strategy to create an opportunity where two businesses can come together. And, obviously, there's there's legal parts to this as well, which also creates more complications. So I think, making the business, b to c to b to b, which, you know, happened with the the career that I have now, there was a lot to learn because b two c was really, really centered on, I will say, relationships. And relationships are super important in any kind of sales. There's no question about that. People have to trust you. They have to believe in your authenticity. They have to believe that you believe in what you're doing. On the b to b side, though, I I the years there is more of a requirement to really dig in and understand an entire industry, you know, know, not just understanding, like I said, someone's someone's taste buds where they come in every Tuesday. The the b to b aspect requires a lot more problem solving, a lot more validation that what you know is correct. And I think every step of the way in a b to b deal, that's something that you're constantly doing is validating. Do I have the right information? Am I dealing with a credible person? How is that person perceived in their organization? Am I looking at this correctly? So a lot more voices, a lot more strategy. It's also really significant that you don't go b to b alone. B to b is a team sport. And in bringing in subject matter experts from across your organization when you're trying to get engaged and go to that next level with, you know, signing a big contract requires the, involvement of many people beyond just that front facing salesperson. So does that give you some insight? Is that helpful? Very insightful. Stacy, let's stick with the b two b realm for a second. And let me ask you, have you sold to small businesses, mid sized businesses, large enterprises? And maybe go into maybe the differences and nuances for what your target might be in a b to b, you know, area. So throughout my career, I I've absolutely had experience selling with small transactional types of deals with smaller companies, midsize, deals and with midsize organizations and then certainly large global, you know, multinational companies. My experience is that a smaller transaction with a smaller company does allow a little bit more for an emotional buy. I think Kim illustrated very well, with b two c that there is a an aspect of relationship building that is a is a is an instrument to, you know, finalizing a deal. I think the same thing is true with a small business. My experience is also that those types of deals in whatever you're selling tend to go a little bit faster. They're less complicated, because the terms and conditions are are simpler. The smaller the buy, the easier it is to accomplish and the faster that you can go. The other side of that continuum is the large global accounts that require not just multilayers of decision making, but legal ramifications, you know, in terms of country, particularly if there's technology, data associated with exchanges of information, and those deals can take tend to be a little bit larger and can take two to five years to complete. Very interesting. Okay. You know, I just love thank you for sharing both of your journeys because I just love hearing how different people get into sales because nine out of ten times, it's so relatable and empowering. Right? It's almost never I got a perfect score on my SAT and went straight to Harvard, and I was on the rowing team, and now I sell enterprise. It's never that. Right? It's usually something like the stories you guys just just shared. So with that in mind, what should someone take into consideration if they're considering a career in sales? I think one of the most important things that someone who's considering a career in sales should think about is how they feel about themselves. It requires a healthy dose of self confidence. Because just by nature of what you're doing every day, if you're putting in the time and activity and the appropriate amount of interaction with the public, you're going to hear no more than you hear yes. And so if you think about no matter what level you're operating in in terms of a sales career, from the very beginning to, you know, ultimately leadership, your day likely begins and and often ends with no. And you have to be able to hear that many times and be able to look at yourself in the mirror and feel just as good about the work that you did when you heard no as the day that you put you know, the work the day's work that you put in where you where you get some positive outcomes. So I think a healthy self awareness and a healthy dose of self esteem is is imperative. I I so so agree with Stacy, and I think I love how you said your day can start in with no. And I think that when you are, motivated to be in sales, you you hear no, but no is not now. And I think you you you change your mindset about what no means for you in what you're doing. I think also, people don't shouldn't be afraid of the word sales. I think there's this you know, even in this day and age when you can buy a car online, people think of a used car salesman and that has a negative it's negative imagery for what sales is. And I think it's really important that people consider sales is really about solving problems to move things forward, whether it's for a business or for an individual. It's about problem solving. It's about sharing. It's about gaining understanding. So I think if people can get over the word sales, because you could say, I don't want sales. I'm afraid of sales. And and you you're looking at them and especially as somebody that's worked in recruitment for so long, you're like, you would be great at sales. And to Stacy's point, if you don't have that that kind of level of self esteem and and, also, I think, really bolting on what Stacy said, you have to have in addition to being tough skinned, you also have to be, very willing to be vulnerable. And I think essential if if you know that you're a natural conversationalist that keeps on going no matter what, that has plan a, plan b, plan c, That's foundationally all you need to recruit in sales. Maybe some math skills too. That helps and some other stuff. But, I I mean, I do think getting over the word sales as being negative or, like, a bad word is a first great step in looking at a career in sales. That is so true. And earlier, you mentioned Darren Stevens. Right? So I I I always idolize like Roger Sterling taking people out for drinks in a Laker game. But let's go let's keep it real for folks too. I mean, there are pros and cons, right, that you have to be willing to to accept when you when you get into this career and if you wanna make it a career, not just a gig. Right? So let's give the listener a detailed picture about maybe what your day, week, month is like, you know, in sales, the the good, the bad, the ugly, starting with, let's start with Kim on this one. You know? Keep it real for him. Don't let's not paint the rosiest picture because, you know, like every job, there's up and downs. That's and you know what? I'm just gonna start with business travel. There is this image that business travel is glamorous and fun and easy and your first class. And I used to tell my friends, like, I'm not meeting George Clooney at the Ramada Inn in Austin. That's not what business travel is. And business travel is early in the morning, packing your suitcase, and you're packing your suitcase not to go on vacation. You're not pack packing your bathing suit and your fun stuff. You're thinking about every aspect, whether it's I I work out. I need to pack my workout clothes. I need to pack my get ready for the meeting clothes. I need to pack my actual meeting meeting clothes. You have to think about all of these details, and I've had many many a blunder where I've actually grabbed my son's pants by mistake and then been in a business meeting wearing a twelve year old boy's, cotillion pants. It's it isn't always smooth sailing there, and there's also, yeah, I'm I'm really going into the travel part here because that is, I think, one of the biggest misnomers. Like, oh, you travel. It's so great. Oh, you're oh, you were in New York. Oh, you were in Houston. It's like running through the airport trying to make a flight, calling the travel agency because you need to switch something because the client changed the time of the meeting, missed a connection. Your bag didn't make it. So I'm I'm giving you, like, I guess, a track travel story, but that is such a big aspect of sales is going to those meetings, being prepared, and there's other whole side of it of getting prepared, not just to know your material, to have your solution, to have brought, you know, brought the things that you need to do a good presentation. This whole backstory that people don't understand is, it can that can be a stressful part of the job. That can be a very stressful part of the job. So that that I guess that's one of the you know, we can laugh about it and stuff, but there's times when I probably was crying about it alone in my not four star hotel room every time, by the way. So that's that's one little snippet. I think, Kim, you made some great points. I think there are a number of of misconceptions that people who are entering into sales may go through prior to really having on the job experience. Travel is one of those things. Brett, you made reference to client entertainment and dinners, and people need to realize that that is a small part of the work that we do. The majority of the time, you're getting up in the morning, you're preparing for your day, who you're going to be meeting with, doing the research on what's happening with those companies, where they are in the market, where they are in their own, you know, cycle, if it's manufacturing, consumer goods, you know, whatever is happening in terms of trending, who their competitors are, points of distribution, and then personal research on who it is that you're meeting with, their careers, their journeys, then most people transition into, you know, the actual activity that it takes to ultimately yield those types of meetings. And more often than not, those are a combination of phone calls and emails and, you know, preparing digital campaigns. And the secret to any good salesperson is the discipline and consistency that they apply to those activities. So often, the most successful people on my team say that a good portion of their day is doing create a schedule for themselves where they don't allow for breaks and things like that to occur until they've reached a certain amount of people. After that, you're actually having the meetings that are result of those activities. And depending on, you know, what stage you are on that sales cycle, it can be introductory meetings all the way to second, third, and fourth stages of presentations that are, you know, trying to get yourself to the next the next point in in whatever formalized process is happening. There is the creation of whatever materials, slide decks, proposals, all of those things while you're then planning what's going to happen immediately following those meetings and presentations that have occurred. There's also a responsibility to capture all of that information and data into a CRM. I don't know of a company that doesn't utilize a formal process of of data gathering so that you can, you know, capture all the information so other people can have an, you know, a glimpse of what's occurring that they may be able to add to your process. And all of those things happen at the same time that you're then potentially planning a lunch or a dinner with a customer or prospect. And you're not always in the mood to make small talk and to, you know, have those kinds of conversations while you're, you know, ordering your dinner and then thinking about when all of that's complete, what you're going to do to make sure you're ready for the next day. And one last point about that is, you know, Kim mentioned travel, which is, you know, I think, again, one of the reasons why people go, I wanna get into sales, I wanna see the world. And all of those activities that I just described are absolutely essential to every single business day. And so what I mean by that is even though you may be on a plane and then have to check into your hotel, and all of that work that you have to do in a day that you're not traveling doesn't not occur on the days that you are or doesn't not occur on the days that you're planning on getting ready for your conference or your dinner? So all of that said, people choose sales as a career and a profession for a lot of good reasons. It gives you the opportunity to learn a lot about all kinds of different companies and to be able to meet a lot of people, create compelling solutions that really help them drive their business, and it's absolutely worthwhile. But it's not without a lot of hard work and discipline. Perfectly said. I mean, I like to think about it that, you know, a good salesperson has to maintain a high level of energy, so you have to always be looking out for your mental and physical health if you're gonna maintain that discipline, you're talking about, especially when you throw the travel into it. And a good salesperson has to always be inquisitive, if not nosy. Nation, if you don't like staying current and learning, even if you wanna be in sales, it it could pass you by. Let me let me ask you guys one more kinda serious question, and then maybe I'll go down a a fun rabbit hole as I like to do. But, this might be the most interesting one of all. If you guys could just quickly tell me from your perspective, how has a job in sales evolved over the years? So, you know, the two thousands to the two thousand tens to the to now, the twenty twenties. Real quick, just share with our listeners how you think the job has evolved, either one of you. I mean, I'd say just straight out of the gate, access to information. You know, years ago, Stacy and I doing this together, we would be driving around and we'd be saying, that must be a big company with lots of temp workers because there's a bunch of cars in the parking lot because that was our way of doing research. Now you have access to information. You don't you don't need to contact a company to say how many employees do you have, what do you what's your business. There's so much access to information that can and sometimes it can be daunting, but it certainly gives you a leg up in, being able to kind of cut to the chase and start talking about how you're gonna solve problems, not just necessarily about what they do because you can already already learn about that. I mean, gosh. In this right now, and you can learn about it from TikTok. It's not just googling the name of their company. You can learn about it from social media. So I think, for me, that would be one of the most significant, parts of the evolution of sales. And, I mean, I guess, a lot of careers, really, but for sales, it's a game changer to have access to information. You said about being inquisitive, hundred percent the right thing. Information gathering, validating information, two essential pieces of being good at sales. Very interesting. Stacy? I think the role of a salesperson has changed and evolved over time. I think, you know, once a in the, you know, in the beginning of my career, it really was about being able to establish relationships and have good rapport and engage people and put on a good presentation. And I think now, you you know, the role of a salesperson is really very consultative. And in order to be an effective salesperson, you really have to be a business strategist. And, you know, preparation is is key to that. You can't just be an expert at one or two industries. You really have to understand how business works across a variety of of different industries and, you know, international exposure and expertise is a big part of that. So, you know, particularly in an industry like ours where, you know, we're talking about workforce solutions and and technology and labor law and compliance and cost savings and efficiencies are all big, big components of delivering a great outcome from a customer. You can't do that without being excellent, in terms of understanding how all of that works and fits together. And so salespeople are no longer relationship managers. They really are important consultants to people's, organizations. Okay. A couple bonus topics for you guys. Let's do a whip around. So real quick, just what what comes to the top of your mind. Give me a book that every salesperson or aspiring salesperson should read. Stacy. Who Moved My Cheese? Alright. A classic. Kim. Dale Carnegie. How to Win Friends and Influence People. A classic. Yeah. Very good. What about this one? If I wasn't selling workforce solutions, I would be selling blank. Stacy. Pharmaceuticals. Kim. Flowers. Ah, very cool. If I wasn't in sales, I would be doing blank Stacy. If I had to to look back and make different decisions, I would probably go to medical school. I probably would have been doctor. Pharmaceutical, medical. Okay. I see it. Kim, if you weren't in sales, what would you be doing? I would be doing more writing and more voluntary. Very cool. Well, you guys, if I was someone considering a career transition into sales or if, if I was someone who was at the beginning stages of of kinda deciding what I wanna do instead of a gig, a career, this conversation would be very helpful to me. So I wanna thank Stacy Habegger and Kim Bell, for the input that you or I should should say, the insight you guys gave today. If anyone wants to reach out to them, I'm sure they'd be happy to, to have a conversation with you, and I we can make sure that their information is readily available to to our listeners. Overall, I hope you found this content useful and informational today and fun to to hear. If you need anything from us at the Apple One Podcast, we're always here to help because we are hiring made human. And your feedback will always go towards keeping our conversations relevant and fun so that the next topic on our career series episode is tailored to something you're interested in. With that said, thanks for listening.