Oh welcome to gossip about gossip. Powered by Hedera Hashgraph. In each episode, we'll cut through the hype of blockchain promises and explore real world examples of organizations creating the next generation of decentralized applications, which will bring trust back to the internet for us all. Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of gossip about gossip, the podcast where we talk about real world applications of distributed ledger technology. My name is Zenobia Gottschalk and I'm the SVP of communications here at World's labs promoting the growth of the Hedera ecosystem. I am delighted to be joined by Max Winograd with Avery Dennison. Hi max, how are you? I'm doing great, Zenobia. Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely so, max, you all recently announced some progress with the platform and the use of the Hedera network to log some transactions that are being pushed through the platform. So can you start telling us maybe a little bit about the Genesis of amadio and the development and growth of the platform to date? Absolutely great question, Zenobia. So first, I always like to start off with what does Atmeh mean? And Atmeh is Sanskrit word for soul. So you and if we think about the trillions of products that surround us throughout our lives, every product itself has a soul. And it's about understanding that true self of that product, it's Atmeh to be able to really unlock the potential to turn products into simply stuff and things that we buy, use and throw away to things that can actually enable sustainability and circularity. And so for Amaya, it's all about driving savings and sustainability through traceability and using the unique digital identity that you can give to a product. So essentially it's Atmeh and using that as the start of collecting all the data about a product. And so the Genesis of myofibrils really came from that vision that in the future every product will have a unique digital identity and digital life. And at Avery Dennison were uniquely positioned to really unlock and that entire end to end value of a connected product and digital identities with our leadership, what we call intelligent labels, which includes everything from your uhf, RFID that you can see on apparel items to cutting edge technologies that can utilize item level sensing to understand exactly what's happening to a product. Every step of journey OT is essentially the third wave of that development where we're now actually creating a platform to manage all the data that connected products can generate. Very exciting, and I would imagine that as consumers start to care more about this and really want to understand where their product has been on its journey to them, that there's an incredible demand for this kind of thing. So can you explain to us what the rollout of your new sustainability and decarbonization use cases look like from here? Absolutely so really excited that what started with our spring release earlier this year has really now continue to grow with momentum and also further developments both commercially but also at the product level. So first, when we announced our spring release, it really focused on two really important components, which is real time waste elimination and then also enabling global traceability of products. And by doing this, we're unlocking a whole new level of information that you can capture at the item level of each and every item in real time, and take that information and turn that into action. And we took that action a step further and we announced our partnership with the Bar Foundation and Hedera in may, which was not only taking all this information, but also then writing that information to the Hashgraph so we can now store this data in an immutable way on a DLT or distributed ledger. And we can then take that information and then use it as the basis for taking action to decarbonize. And that's where the exciting work around carbon tokens really started between I/O and Hedera. And now we hope to grow that with the entire Hedera ecosystem looking to find new ways to really drive down the carbon footprint for consumers, for brands, for suppliers, and using really granular and accurate data to do it. And that's really what comes together when you combine Mayo and adara for decarbonization. I love it as a conscious consumer. I think that story really resonates now. This is, of course, a podcast about the Hedera network. So can you explain to our audience what's the process of getting transactions logged regularly on the network? That's a great question. So when we announced our partnership with Hedera last month, it was really, as we're getting to the finishing touches of our platform upgrade. So enabling the seamless connection between data that gets captured on the platform to data that then can be stored and managed on the Hedera DLT. And what that means is essentially as we go to activate customers, we're bringing them a complete solution stack. So natively integrated microservices and applications already on the platform that are then able to write transactions automatically and directly then to the Hedera network to then enable the ability for that data to then have an immutable home and also to be able to connect that data to future applications in the Hedera ecosystem that can then generate value not just for the brands that are then originally writing. The state or consumer is seeking to learn more about this data, but then also all the developers and the whole community that's trying to get information about products or information about brands, then turn it into actionable applications, new use cases, and really continue to further that flywheel effect that the ecosystem offers between Hedera and Maya. Very cool. So obviously Hedera is a public ledger. Anybody can see the transactions that are happening on the network. When do you expect to see the transactions from audio recorded and starting to be written on the network? Great question, Zenobia. We're in the process of completing the platform upgrade as we speak, so our goal is to complete the platform upgrade in a matter of weeks, if not days. And then once we begin that, once that's completed, will then be in a position to start writing transactions directly to the network and start to see the proliferation of data on the Hedera ledger to then enable all of these future use cases that leverage DLT to enable decarbonization. So very soon and earlier. And as you're introducing me, you actually said some transactions and I wanted to clarify that how big the sum means. And we're talking about has over $22 billion items currently connected to the platform. And some of these items might trigger 10 or even 20 events related to that item. When it was made, it was shipped, it was received, it was sold, it was scanned, it was recycled. It was all those different sort of data points along a product's journey to become individual events or transactions on the platform. So we're looking forward to driving some transaction to the platform, but it'll actually probably be in the billions upon billions as things start to ramp up. Yes, super exciting. And so you've talked about this massive scale. These are big brands that you're working with, big customers. So will they automatically have their transactions logged on hedera? Do they have to pay for them as an opt in service? How does that work? I really like about the partnership between and Hedera is we try to make it really easy for brands to be able to turn on a DLT enabled use case without having to go through a lot of additional complexity. And by having the native integration between I/O and Hedera available for high throughput, high speed transaction and data sharing enables us to be in a position to, in one conversation with the customer, enable them not only to then activate item level visibility, but then also store that information in a mutable way. Leveraging Hedera. Fantastic and you mentioned, not only this traceability, but the importance of accounting for carbon emissions. So how does doing this through the Hedera network benefit your customers? The big demand that we hear from our customers, which is really then coming from consumers like you and me, is the need for not just the information, but knowing that the information is accurate. We're seeing more and more regulators and institutions talking about enforcing claims of sustainability and oh, this is eco-friendly or green. More and more, the regulators are getting smart and saying, prove it, and you're going to need to have some very detailed backup to show how individual products are, in fact, more sustainable than others, or to show that you're actually meeting some of your science based targets around decarbonization or reducing your carbon footprint. So there's an increasing amount of scrutiny going on to claims related to sustainability and therefore an increasing need to have very accurate information. And the goal of bringing I/O together with Hedera for these use cases is that we're now enabling the data to get captured in a way that is immutable, auditable. And because we're focusing on item level, it's as accurate as you can get, as opposed to saying, here's a particular product and let's do a theoretical estimate of what a Black t-shirts carbon footprint is based on all the Black t-shirts ever made of different sizes, different factors. It becomes so hypothetical that it's really hard to translate a lifecycle assessment, which is crucially important data on a carbon footprint and bring that down to an accurate real time number. And so our real goal is taking all the great work done around these assessments of products impact, adding a lot more real time data to it, enable them to get real time accurate carbon footprint. And then store all that information in a way that's accessible by all and considered accurate by everybody. That's amazing. I mean, I think both from the regulator perspective as well as like I said, from the conscious consumer perspective, it's so much more tangible and satisfying to know that this particular product has been traced versus, like you said, just an estimate in aggregate. Yes so you all have obviously been working on this for a long time. As you think about it from the developer perspective, are there but also from your business perspective, are there lessons learned along the way that you would share with other folks building on hedera? It's a great question, Zenobia. It's been quite a journey already. On one hand, it seems like it's been a really, really long time. On the other hand, it seems like just yesterday we're sitting down with a white sheet of paper and getting to meet some of the initial Hedera team members back in 2019, when we first connected between the different teams along the journey, what we really learned is a critical part to the success of these types of very impactful technologies, is being able to really unlock a value that resonates with the consumers and the customers and stakeholders that you're seeking to go after, which is why we're so excited to be working on these decarbonization use cases. We see a critical need in the marketplace for really accurate, really granular data that's accessible by many different stakeholders. And then as a result, we then have a technology opportunity to find the technology that can meet those needs and rise to the moment. And we're pretty confident that the combination of Milo and the Hedera network will enable brands, consumers and other stakeholders to take really accurate, really granular data that's immutable and use that to drive decarbonization goals. So for us, the lesson it's focus on what's the value that you're trying to create. And then start back from there to then actually developing the technology, the platform upgrades, whatever it is that you're building to then meet that value. That's fantastic. I think that's great advice. There's a lot of conversation going around NFTs. I think we have from the Hedera perspective, believe that everything will be tokenized, not just great works of art and other visual things. So can you give us maybe a little bit of a preview? When can your customers start tokenizing their carbon emissions? So the carbon tokens will be available starting in Q3 of this year for customers. So the platform upgrades, as I said before, getting completed in a matter of weeks, if not days. And with that, then the ability to enable the Hedera tokenization service through the platform is then ready to go. And we'll also be working closely with the ecosystem to pull together a marketplace so that carbon reduction, carbon offset and carbon offset tokens can then be available to our customers. So that they can actually not only account for their carbon on one hand, but then also reduce that carbon footprint on the other. And doing all of it enabled by a combination of meio and the Hedera network. Max that is incredible. I think the vision, the holistic vision that you guys have put forth and the thinking and planning that has gone into this, I'm sure will be of tremendous value to your customers. Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. And we hope that you will come back and keep us posted on your progress. Absolutely zenobia, Thanks so much for having me. And Thanks to the whole Hedera ecosystem for an amazing journey so far and even more excited for what's to come. Wonderful Thank you so much, max.
