Cosmic Wire is Shaping a Transparent and Secure Digital World with Web 3 and Blockchain Technology

Ladies and gentlemen, listeners and viewers, this is Ron Stefanski with another episode of Disrupt Ed where we look at this ginormously disrupted world, this five g wired workforce augmented, globally interdependent, technology interconnected, AI accelerated, pandemic interrupted world that we live in where the pace of change and the scope of change is is blinding. It is so fast and so furious. And so we met upon a young gentleman who helped us to unpack what's going on in this disrupted world of technology. And so many of you engaged with us and said, wow. That was quite a ride. So I'm gonna ask you to strap in, and we're gonna introduce you to, once again, for those who haven't met, Jared Fink from Cosmic Wire. Jared, thanks for joining us again. Hey. Thanks for having me. Glad to be back. Absolutely. You're gonna look up at the you you need to look up at yeah. Look up at the camera a little bit. Thank you. Darren, as you're thinking about cosmic wire, you are thinking about a world that doesn't exist yet. You're already into the future, and the rest of us are struggling to catch up. And so maybe you could help us understand where do you think this is going? Where what do you think the most visible next signs of progress, technologically, are we gonna see on the Internet, on social media, on all of this? Where do you think it's going? I know that's a big question, but give it a give it a rip. Yeah. I mean, obviously, a lot to unpack there. But, I think, you know, what what we've been building and what we've been talking about in web three is, it's all the stuff that, you know, it's just weird weird dynamic that I've ran into, especially in web three as I've, like, done these conferences and, like, watched this thing kind of evolve. We've been building as a company and moving forward. And there is this, like, specific kind of age group that's right at the heart of it, and then, obviously, there's there's outliers everywhere. But it's it's these, you know, people that were born between, like, the very kinda end of the seventies and through, like, the mid of the eighties, and there's this small pocket. And, I kindly refer to us as the Oregon Trail Kids. And we're we're we're the last kids that, like, will remember the analog days, you know, like an actual landline telephone or plugging in your thing to get on, you know, your dial up and that and that crazy, you know, sound that we all remember. Or I remember, you know, being in middle school with my a o one AOL one disk. Right? And the interesting piece, I think, about this specific age group is that this is, like, all of the stuff that we grew up with. I mean, if you look at all of, like, the eighties movies and, like, that entire thing, it was all around this kind of, like, interwoven immersive environment, and and that was I see. Really, like, my entire childhood. You know, like, my daughter who is six, I show her all of this technology, and, you you know, her wow factor is watered down compared to mine because, you know, kind of like it's it's to me, it's almost, like, similar to, like, when we went from, like, Nintendo and Super Nintendo to sixty four, and there was just this massive moment. And it was the first time running around in three d environments, and we were all, like, blown away. You know, my daughter, I show her some of this immersive web stuff, and she's like, well, that that's cool, daddy, but I do it on my iPad already. Or, like, you know, like, they're already immersive. Thinking, doing here. Yeah. So it's it's like it's it's super fluid. Right? And then, like, the older generation is kind of, like, watching it from from a completely different vantage point because they've lived their entire, you know, lives kind of analog. So, like, my father doesn't really get this at all. Right? But no. You clearly do. Like but but I'm just saying, like, there's this weird No. But I think you're right. Right. I think there are people like me and, you know, I'm in my sixties, and I grew up analog until my thirties. And so a lot of it is new or I think I I you know what? I think we lack sometimes is the ability to think in three d. I mean, that's how I always feel. I feel like the Internet puts you into a three d environment, and we're those of us who are analog, born and bred, are in a two d world. And now you're talking about adding a fourth or fifth dimension, and it's just gonna pop our brains out. You know? We're just gonna go, oh my god. So, yeah, I think, what I what I sensed from so many viewers that that responded to your first sort of foray into this was that you, you know, they may not have understood half of what you said, but they felt better after hearing it because you gave them confidence that the world is working on a a certain trajectory, and it's not gonna be bad. It's gonna be good. I mean, isn't there a morality play go you know, playing out in technology now? You have the big gunners, the people who own ninety nine percent of the property and the wealth in the world, and then you have the rest of us scrambling around in this world. I mean, it seems to me that you have these ominous big forces that can really manipulate or influence things, and then you got a lot of us. And what we're looking for is community and to get connected. And for us, we have to we have to prop up the the the the good things about technology, the democratization of technology, the ability to give people access to education, the ability to do a job from around the world, all those things that technology connects us with. But, you know, there are also I mean, cybersecurity threats are up three thousand percent. You know? There are terrorists. I mean, there are cyber terrorists out there. So how do well, what do you make of it? How do you think the good guys are gonna win in this? Well, I I think winning is is is relative. I mean, there to me, I feel like, you know, the you you said it. You know? When people ask me, like, what I think web three is or what this all is, I think it it can be boiled down into an awareness community. And I and I think that that's just like a human condition. You know? Even since, like, when we were doing hieroglyphs. Right? Like, we've always been using whatever means that we have to communicate ideas and and kinda manifest, like, you know, our internal thoughts into something tangible so we can all relate because we're all sharing this kind of human condition. Right? And, we are in this extremely kind of click funneled rabbit hole, version of the of the mouse trap we built for ourselves right now where we've kinda put ourselves into echo chambers of of just nonsense. And it doesn't matter what it is, if it's political or how you tie a knot or make spaghetti. It doesn't matter. Like, people are surrounding themselves that that that are are like minded and kind of, like, reinforce those beliefs. And I think that that this is is the antidote or the antiseptic to that kind of, ideology or or that thought process. Process. I mean, if if you think about at least when I when I grew up, you know, in in grade school, when we were doing our first book reports, I remember, like, one of the first things that we always had to do was, like, go find five or ten sources, and they can't be the same. Like, you have to, like Right. You know, coalesce or synergize from different sources to come up with novel thought, not like read ten chapters of the same book and then regurgitate, which is what we're doing right now. Right? And I think the initial premise of the Internet, and we talked a little bit about this last time, was this kind of interconnected woven world where people could trade ideas, and and that instantly got turned into exactly what you're describing where power players came in and turned it into islands and everyone's pay for play and, you know, scavenging and selling data in this kind of, like, world that we've turned into. And this Web three stuff, with with the accessibility that we put together, and that was always the idea. It's like if we just raise the floor, right, and we allow more exposure for everyone or more That that's the positive that that's the positive piece that is the antiseptic to the, I think, the pushback of where we've all had enough. And and I think the pandemic, like, what that that definitely, like, kicked this into high gear. I mean, I and I've said this, like, I don't know how many times, but for me, the weirdest phenomena that came out of the pandemic was, Clubhouse. And I remember sitting in my basement, like, why are we talking our walkie talkies again? This is insane. Like, what are we doing? But if you pull back, it was we're all alone. We're we're getting back into just campfire stories and listening, you know, to each other again. And that's that's what this is doing. Like, what by making this accessible over, like, three g networks and all the compression and infrastructure and things that we put together, it's like, this can go everywhere. I mean, what happens when we get into third world countries that now have access to colleges and universities and lessons and online, you know, volumetric experiences where they can actually interact and and show things and share their art or their creations or musical abilities or math or any of that kind of stuff. Because right now, the world is very arbitrary depending on where you're at with what you can and can't do. I mean, I I'm a I'm a closet idealist. I mean, I'm I'm always out there, with that, but there is this kind of cynicism where, you know, even, like you know, when when I look back through my my own, like, trajectory, it's like, yeah. I work hard. And I I I know that I work harder than, like, the average Joe, and that's just, like, coming up from a, you know, a farm life and a family that that would, like, instill that in me. But even with that, like, in the perseverance and thoroughness and all the stuff you can do, there's still, like, this random kind of alignment of fate or the stars or luck or whatever that has to present those opportunities for you to be able to take advantage of them. And, unfortunately, not everyone gets that. Right? And that's that's Right. That's right. It's about access. I mean, you can't be part of a community that you don't have access to, to, and I think I think that's a big one. I think, you know, I love your expression of all of this as community because, you know, it's interesting. I watched a podcast recently where people were talking about how inadvertently social media work to make it, you know, to get people to engage, and what they created were addictive, patterns where people couldn't not go online. And and the repercussions of that have not always been good in that middle school age, for example, being that connected, having your life that much on display, not not necessarily a good thing when you're going through puberty and a whole lot of changes. And so I think, you know, even if it was inadvertent, now it doesn't matter because big players are selling data. They're selling our data, yours, mine, and everyone else's. And so I think you're right. Until we get back to a community, you know, it's going to be tough. There there's going to be the big guys against the little individuals. And so I think I think unleashing a door, it's almost like you're what you're talking about suggests a new door into a new universe. And it's like, we arrived here. It's sort of better than where we were, but it's not where you can be. And you open the door, and it's just all bright white light. That that's, I think, the the best explanation of it. Like, I think it is the first true blue ocean. And, one of the most amazing things that's coming out of this kind of new generation and this is like I mean, it started happening in in the millennials. Right? Like I said, with kind of the Internet really changing the way that that we could monetize and express ideas and all those kinds of things that that movement forward. Right? And as it gets younger and younger and younger and, you know, people are born into this, like, that is how they think. Like, there's you you nailed it. Like like, we're all relative of our experience. Right? We all kind of form our rational thought that way. And I think what's gonna come out of this and the most beautiful thing out and not to get, like, too, you know, crazy out there, but, like, every the the one, like, thing that I think is constant about every person on earth is that everyone is unhappy with themselves relative to themselves. Like, even if you are Brad Pitt, right, who's a very perfectly formed human on the outside, right, there's probably still a mole somewhere where he's like, you know, I hate this I mean, it doesn't matter. It's all relative. Right? And the cool thing that's coming out of this space is all of that stuff kind of disappears because you can literally be what you want to be manifested how you wanna present yourself where the limit of the of the range of your creativity is literally just limited by your creativity. I mean, it's this this space is just crazy. It can be anything you want it to be because we're literally controlling the environment. The way I try to explain spatial web to people is, think of think of a place where everything has intention. Right? It's not it's not it's not like the room and the the wood and the trees or whatever. Like, the there's static objects in these spaces that we're creating to go convey ideas. Everything can have intention. Everything can have placement. Everything can have meaning, which allows us to express more deeply, like, all of that kind of intellectual property. It doesn't matter if it's, like, a thought or if it's a lesson or a music or I mean, anything that that we do with it. And I think that piece where we're stripping away insecurities and allowing people to kind of express their thoughts, not inhibited by whatever intrinsic feelings or intrinsic things are holding them back, which holds all of us back. We all deal with this stuff every day. This allows a completely different way to communicate. And I think what comes out of that, is something that we haven't experienced yet because this medium hasn't existed in this capacity ever. And that that's kind of like a global thing. And and this is completely new. Yep. Like you said a minute ago, it's blue ocean. I mean, when I think about what you're saying, you know, it it speaks to a world where we can all be in a community or we can be in our own communities such as we devise, such as we create. Yeah. But but talk to me about you know, you're you're an idealist about this, and I'm, you know, not a pessimist, but I'm certainly freaked out about the dangers that happen when you go online. The sacrifice of privacy, the sacrifice of personal data, the sacrifice of, your own persona that, you know, that happens when someone's cyberbullied or whatever. Right. Where do you see the guardrails coming in? Is it through blockchain? Is it through Web three that we're able to steer toward a safer domain? Because I think that's that's one of the things that checks people as well on social media is it's it can be dangerous, or you can have it fly back in your face. I think I think that's I mean, for me, that's really the only only question. I mean, everything else kind of works itself out if we fix this kind of fundamental premise, and that is, if I were to, like, you know, put on a on a slogan or or, like, in some digestible bit, like, what Cosmic Wire is doing, like, that concept that you just described is it. That's the core functionality of what we're doing. And I you know, it's protecting your identity, your proxy, your entity. Like, how do we do that? And I think absolutely, you know, it's it's through blockchain and containerizing because, like, we're not using, you know, NFTs and and kind of blockchain in that mercantile way. Like, the way that the way that I see it is the Internet is the chain, and we're the nodes on the chain. We're the people. We're the things that are interacting with it. We all have, you know, our bubbles of proxy and zero tolerance, and that's that's what we've built. So you go through this kind of, you know, minting process for, like, a better verification process of your proxy and yourself. And that's a true zero trust environment. We don't have access to it. Platforms don't have access to it. No one has access to it. The only people that have access to it are are what you're letting out. Right? So this is a way to go and control your proxy and your identity and things like that. And and what comes off of this, you know, is the hashing of of, behaviors from those nodes. Right? So if someone's doing something or cyberbullying or any of those kinds of things, because this is all token gated, your visual field or your representation, right, only sees what you're allowing to be seen. Right? So if I don't ever wanna talk to you or see you again, like, I just remove your hash, and then you're not in my existence anymore. And there's this really kind of, like, self policing thing that happens, for people. It's like, oh, you're bullying me? Well, now you're gone. Right? And and not just gone. Like, you don't exist, right, in my field anymore. It's It's much different. Someone Right. Here. You down and showing up at your door, you know, because they found you on Facebook because you had pictures of your house. Like, this is a completely different thing where we can have these, like, deep meaningful conversations and communities. And if something's out of hand or something you don't agree with rather than us trying to infringe all these kind of arbitrary values and views on everyone else, which is obviously what's going on in the world right now. I mean, we're so by, you know, segregated right now. We can't even have conversations. This is, like, I'm going to allow into my field of view and my world what impacts me and what doesn't impact me. And I think that that that changes a fundamental precept that hasn't been available out there because everyone's trying to police this stuff, and it's completely impossible to do that. So You know, I wanna get a I wanna get a fix on your idealism because I think it takes several forms. And one form is that that you're idealistic about the way communities will form, that people with like or different interests will start getting better at being part of a community again. I think that's what this polarization of politics has done over the last decade is it's that combined with a gerrymandering of districts and, you know, creating the kind of, gridlock that we have in Washington. I think it's polarized people because you live in a world now where you may not need to leave your house, and you may not need to meet anyone that isn't exactly like you. And if that's happening, then, of course, terror will strike when you have to speak with someone that's completely different. And so I do think that there's something to be said about creating community where people are going to see differences. I use an example. Detroit, my city of birth in my new hometown for the last decade, just hosted the NFL draft. Seven hundred and fifty thousand people showed up, and it was amazing because it, you know, the headline on Monday after the afterglow and the hangover and looking at the city putting itself back together and taking all the banners down, it's the headline read all smiles. We had a great experience. There wasn't, you know, violence. There was there were two hundred and seventy five thousand people on the first day in a geographical area of a couple you know, of less than a mile. And they were all grooving, and they were all excited, and they were all meeting us, the Detroiters, on the other side of it. So many people walked away from the experience very different. I mean, I know people who have said to me in the ten years that I've been in Detroit, wow. I I hear it's really starting to change. Is that true? Is it getting safer? Those are all old narratives. But when you brought people together in a community and it just happened to be around the NFL draft, which the NFL just made a thing. I mean, we didn't ten years ago, we didn't even think about hanging out to find out about the drama of the draft. We just knew we were gonna get new players every season. Now it's a you know, the NFL has turned it into a big event, but it's also it's also a gravid community. And I don't I I don't I don't begrudge them that I applaud them for that. So you have this sense of community, and that's one of your idealistic principles. The other one to me is, is, is unclear, and that is, you know, you're doing these things. You're creating this, more nirvana type environment, but you're also a commercial business. And I've heard the analysts on Nasdaq. I heard people talking about it. I've heard about the amount of money you've raised to be able to take this thing forward, and there are a lot of people betting that what you have is exploding and that within the next decade, you'll be a seven several billion dollar company. I mean, you're going from that basement high-tech lounge you're sitting in right now to, you know, a big piece of, spatial real estate. But here's the question I have for you, Jared. Yep. You don't strike me off camera, on camera, the couple series we've done. You just don't strike me as someone who's necessarily all that concerned about wealth. I mean, you seem to have you know, you seem to operate on this premise that you've got enough, and that's okay, and you're happy. And you don't need more, and you're not you know? So talk to me about that because this is a commercial enterprise, and you are monetizing what's going to happen in web three. So how do you square all those things? Well, Isn't that a great question? If if I mean, you're have a philosophical core of existentialist day. No. I mean, I Exactly. But, yeah. I mean, it it comes again from, like, I think, relative experience. I've been on both sides of the spectrum pretty heavily. You know, I've had times where, you know, we had nothing, and I've had times where I I've had, you know, high levels of extravagance. And for me, I think the the thing that that really kind of cuts through it all is when in those times of nothing or those times of extreme extravagance, like, what do I kinda gravitate towards again? And it always it always ends up just kind of, like, you know, my wife, my kids, like, having food have not having to worry about where the food's coming from. But, like, once you kind of get to a place of equilibrium of of that, like, the other stuff I mean, obviously, like like, we like to travel and have fun and things like that, but it's never been, like, the motivation. The motivation for me was, like, I just want us to be able to live the life that we wanna live and not be fear of losing that. Right? And if I can secure that piece to where we're, you know, in in a good place where where we're in a homogeneous stable environment, we're all enjoying our time together because that's at the end of the day, that's what it is. Right? It's like, how do we make the most of our time on the rock flying around the the sun? Right? So it's You talk so much about your kids, and I love that because when I think back over a career that's further along than yours, you know, I have two children as well. They're grown now, and they're in their thirties and both boys, and they're living on their own. And they're living from my, you know, from my vantage point. They appear to be living the best version of themselves. They're both doing well. And to me, you know, as I look at the spectrum of commerce and I look at what's going on, that's the most important consideration when I think about it at the end of every day. Am I happy with where my family is in terms of, like you said, storing food, having enough to eat, having a good place to go, having some, you know, not not not having to worry about any of that and and adding on to it a couple of, you know, meaningful fun experiences, travel, etcetera. You know, beyond that, you know, it doesn't get better than that in my mind. More money doesn't necessarily make that any better unless you're really super obsessed on how you get there in the jet or the, you know, car you take. You know, if those things are of import to you, then you probably need more money. But I think you're right. I think many, many more people would feel good just to get some of this anxiety that social media and technology have created and just get to a point where, you know, life is life is back to a green space. You know? It's it's it's relatively, serene. It doesn't have that many clouds or that many potholes in front of us. It is a bit of a sales pitch, man. I mean, you have to think about, like, how how the whole stuff is constructed. And, like, we've done, you know you know, I I like, I came out of mental health and, behavioral science heavily. And so, like, when I really got into this kind of, like, analytical side of it, like, understanding how the ClickFunnels are put together and dopamine and how much time people and when that, like, goes off and the retention rate of to achieve that and then how the ads are structured together. And, we we're real like, it is a a mousetrap we built for ourself, and we're getting better and better and better at it. And people don't escape it. It's like all you do all day is sit and doom scroll through Instagram and look at versions of your life that you're not doing, which those people aren't doing either. It's all kind of, like, manufactured garbage. We have filters and all this stuff. Right? And you can get stuck in that kind of, like, ego rat trap forever. It doesn't matter if you own one Ferrari or twenty seven Ferraris. Like, it it never matters. Right? Because it's if you're in that race, there is no there's nothing to win. Right? Right. Just Right. It becomes a different thing. And and and that's I think that this dGen community, you know, that lives in, like, Discord and these other kind of, like, mediums where, like, there is no kinda, like, visual representation and we get back kinda like Clubhouse. You know? Like like, you you see this kind of genuine, authentic, value based thing that's happening. And even if we're arguing you know, I went to, like, a I went to a Jesuit college. I mean, I I wasn't I wasn't Catholic, but it was my my favorite debates and my favorite part of, like, going there was always, like, the religious verse fill or, you know, faith verse reason debates. You know? And it was, like, seen as, like, diametric views come together who are completely antithetical but be able to trade ideas that challenge each other. Right? And there is that kind of the thing that this is doing that has been watered down by everything else that we're talking about. So we're all chasing carrots of garbage more or less. Right? And and I think it's across the board. But I agree. I think there's another source of that optimism, though, and I think it comes with your generation and those that have followed those of us on the Oregon Trail and be and behind it. And that is, you know, I see a lot more, emerging regard for stewarding this planet and stewarding a stronger sense of community, among the young younger generation. You know, I'm privy to a lot of conversations with executives where people start talking about, you know, the millenniums and, you know, slackers and all this. And I I gotta be honest. I see no evidence of that. I see a generation coming up that is more intentional about breaking down barriers, labels, everything from identity, politics to everything. And I also see them saying we're not gonna wait. We're not gonna assume that big businesses are gonna fix this. We're not gonna assume that the government's gonna fix this. We're going to come up with our own ideas, and we're gonna pursue them because we need to save this planet for ourselves and our children. And I think that that's another threat of that optimism, I think. And do you see that as well as part of this journey? I I think it's absolutely true. I mean, there is this kind of amorphous thing that comes out of it, You know, as we become more commingled, right, the boxes matter less. And that's that's always been Nice. Yeah. I I think that that philosophy goes as far back as, you know, since the first person. You know? But, I'm I'm I'm hopeful about that. But there is the other side of it, man. I mean, there is, like, a really kinda dark side that comes out of the blockchain stuff too. And, and but that's that's every every kind of, like, piece of technology. And so, we're here to, like, pave the path and show use cases of things that that we know that we can impact and that we know that will benefit from this stuff. Like, I I try not to focus on, like, the people people that are gonna subvert the system because that's just a never ending, exercise as well. Like, when people talk about, like, blockchain and cybersecurity and how we're protecting is, like and is this bulletproof? Is this a fix? I'm like, well, no. It's not. But here is your database. How many emails do you get about your stuff being hacked constantly? Like, we all get these weekly. Right? But we're approaching zero. This is better than what it was, and that's the idea is that if we keep pushing forward, we're we're getting better and more efficient with these systems, and that that's what this is at the heart. And and what you're talking about is the exact same thing. Like, as more continued evolved conversation, as we push more people together, like, it's gonna erode those shells and systems because by exposure to things that you're not exposed to, it it makes us all more aware of what's around us. And that's that's what You are listening and viewing audience. This has been Ron Stefanski on Disrupted talking about the massive disruption in the world of technology in web three with none other than our friend, Jared Fink, the CEO of Cosmic Wire, who you have to just sit down, strap in, and listen to because his outlook is just, incredible. You know, Jared, I think you're onto something big. I think you're, you have a way of expressing it that helps all of us kinda take our blood pressure down. You know? I listen to you, and I say, okay. Things are gonna be okay. The, you know, the chat bots are not gonna get us. You know? The cyber the cyber hounds are not gonna, you know, be at the gates. And, you know, and I think you, you paint a really great blue ocean to follow with Web three, and I think that's the most important thing because, you know, I see it in so many small ways, and I think what you're going to unleash is taking all those small ways that things are getting better and sort of manifesting them in a in in this blue ocean called community. And I think that's where it's that's where it's most exciting, and that's where it's where I'm most optimistic. And I absolutely share your enthusiasm, for that kind of a, you know, blue space. Yep. So So thank you. Any last thoughts before we wrap on this episode of Disrupt Ed? You know, I just, you know, I want people not to be afraid of web three. I want them not to be, like, shying away from this stuff because, this is really meaningful. I mean, it's it's not and we've talked about this, before, but this is really similar to, like, around two thousand when people were trying, like, why am I gonna email? Why am I gonna text message? Why would I do any of this stuff? I mean, I remember the same same things. This this is going to fundamentally change the way that humans interact and trade and transact every day moving forward. Right? This is not the end. This is not we've gone through all these spikes, but, major infrastructure is moving into this now. Everyone's understanding the efficiencies and what's gonna come out of this. And, this is something that is going to enhance and potentially change every person's life. This isn't like some idealistic garbage. Like, this technology is raising the floor of human connection at a global level, and it's happening right now. Right? It's it's coming right now. So Yeah. I think I think that's powerful. And I think, you know, what I've most enjoyed about our conversations is I am one of those people, before the Oregon Trail. You know? I'm one of those people who grew up mostly analog. And so what you don't know scares you. And I have to say in all of our conversations off camera and here, you do a very, very powerful job of creating a world that you're actually building that is going to bring safeguards, is going to bring, increased access to all the things that make life matter for most of us. And I think that's I think that's very cool. And, I wanna continue this conversation as as existential as it's become. I think there are a lot of us who are anxious to hear more about how we think about technology, not in, digital terms, but how we think about it in spatial and human terms because I think that's ultimately the journey we're on. Right? Yeah. And so on that note, I wanna thank you for joining us, and I wanna invite you back again. We're not done with this conversation. And, stay tuned. Give us your feedback. Get disrupted with us. If you liked what you heard or you didn't, we wanna hear from you. Get engaged. Give us your, you know, shares, likes, and comments, and join us, once again for another episode of Disrupted. Thank you.