Harmonizing Technologies for Superior Vibration Control: TMC and VACC Collaborate to Exceed Expectations in Vibration Building Challenges

Hello, everyone. It's Daniel Littwin, the voice of b to b, and welcome to another episode of Vibrations, a TMC podcast. If you're tuning in with us today, this is actually part three of a three part conversation that we've been having with Amad Beyat, and Mike Jorgialis, Amad with VACC and Mike Jorgialis with TMC. Now, we've been exploring a case study in the life sciences industry and really validating why the various industries that we serve need vibration, control, assistance, technology, and strategies. So if you miss part one and two, probably give this a pause. Go listen to those and then jump into today's episode. To do so, make sure you're heading to tech m f g dot com. You'll find our episodes there along with more supporting content, including the full case study in written form that we're going to be finalizing our exploration of today. You can also subscribe to vibrations on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Make sure you hit that subscribe button and you'll get notifications for future episodes, but you'll also find parts one and two of this conversation on said platforms. So again, the whole purpose of this episode has really been highlight one very specific case study, the development of a new cancer research center, and the challenges that it faced with environmental vibration to showcase how important vibration isolation and control solutions are for success in life sciences and other research intensive industries. So with this final episode, we're going to be leaving you with some perspective on why collaboration between partners like TMC and VACC is so needed to create a complete solution for our clients And of course, we're going to leave you with some strategies that you can implement to assess your vibrational challenges and start coming up with your own solution. But, you know, with a little help of course. So let's go ahead and wrap up the conversation with Ahmad and Mike. Let's jump in. Now what I wanna hear is a little more about how each I guess, aspect of your individual company's work informed the other, right? Because knowing that this was going to be a multilayered solution means that the granular tech had to have the building design in mind and the building design had to have what the granular tech was going to solve for it as well, right? So could each of you kind of comment on how the other companies role and how your, you know, your other guests work on the podcast here, how that influenced your Right? So we'll start with Mike. Could you tell me a little bit about how the building design component influenced how you and your team approached the TMC level isolation technology? Well, it's all about data. It's all about knowing what to expect and having good measurements, and sometimes you don't know what to expect. So I had built a building and it he took measurements of the environment for and after the building was built, measurements were taken after inside the building. And we were able to access all this data and see these levels of of vibration that were there for us to work with. And so you have your data and your vibration levels that are in your environment, but you also have the requirements of the instrument. So on the other end, we work with the end user to get the requirements of the instrument and figure out, well, how low do the vibration levels need to be in order for this instrument to function at its optimum level. And so you have these two pieces. You have this environment that you have and you have a level of vibration that you need to meet. And we at TMC look at these numbers, and we develop and design products that are capable of taking that input and generating the desired output. It's called the transfer function of our systems. So we have a transfer function. We have a known performance level. We have the ability to increase that performance and decrease that performance as needed, but a lot of cases, our standard performance is enough to get that input levels to the output levels that are needed. And so and so working with them out in the end users, It's all about knowing that data, knowing those levels, knowing what the requirements are, and being able to have the confidence in the engineering knowledge behind our system to say, yep, with these levels of input, we can provide these levels of output. And that's a thing that's really important for TMC to be able to to do is to be able to to to promise a performance level that can get you into spec. Yeah. I I like to, you know, follow follow-up on that because part of right now, the problem still I'm sure it is in in the audiences mind is that what I just discussed about the the this isolated island, you know, sitting on, you know, close to sixty piles, is not there's a lot of questions still over that. And and in fact, I want that that would clarify, you know, how TMC solution was integral to our problem solving. Usually, you know, when we are designing a facility, we design it. It's all done. And then the the the tool, users, the scientists, they are the ones that end up bringing TMC into their their site. So this is an example where imagine during concept design, I was presenting to the owners of the of this facility, but my solution where it included active isolation. So so yeah. So the part of the the the the thing here that I need to explain is that So my isolated island, basically, imagine I took a two thousand environment brought brought it down to two hundred in vertical direction, but I created a horizontal resonator. Imagine you have ten million pounds of mass sitting on fifty seven piles that are about a hundred feet tall. So when you do the math and the calculation, just using Mass Springs system, you'll quickly realize that we have a two and a half hertz resonator. Okay. So two and a half resonator, it's it's massive. It's really this is no no joke. Because how do you deal with that? Now how do you restrain that? And how do you put a TMC, let's say, isolation system that can actively even deal with that. Because when you push down you know, usually the isolate the the the isolators or active or passive isolation tables, they basically have their own natural frequency passive system could be two hertz, four hertz, five hertz, active system. They they go below one hertz, but nevertheless, they basically beyond their resonant frequency, at some point, they start canceling and and reducing. So imagine the challenge was now is that I have a two and I have created within my island, a two and a half horizontal resonator. And it was, I think, if I recall, it was resonating around six, seven hundred micro inch per second. So in a way, I had solved my vertical problem to somewhat, but had created a little bit of horizontal problem at two and a half hertz. So so so I had to basically go back to drawing board and create literally restraining of this horizontal mode. So we had to introduce forty really large clevices. You know, these clevices are the type that you don't see really in a normal industry. You see it maybe by loading dock of a large ship or some really big industrial facility where they have to dial in a lot of loads you know, carry a lot of load. They use this really huge clevices. And so, basically, our solution was to bring these solution cleavences and horizontally liberally tie my island to the surrounding soil. Such that that that tying back does not bring in new vibration. From the surrounding soil that I isolated. So I I build a trench eighteen inch wide all around my island and then now I'm restraining it back to the to the surrounding environment. So it's kind of a challenging situation So so what we basically that that that that brought us where we were able to stabilize that horizontal motion that was happening at two and a half hertz. But the big part for me right then, I realized that the only thing that would be able to deal with two and a half hertz resilance that is still there is not like you're you're unlimited. I just stabilized it literally. I I brought that six hundred down a bit in that stable situation was was was really an active system. Part of this also discussion that we haven't talked about is that we kind of were lucky that we had a tool that is highly sophisticated, but yet the isolation system internal to those tools, the cryo, they're very primitive. They were passive system, literally just air springs, passive system that will resonate around four and five hertz. So imagine if I brought that tool and installed on my lab floor, not only it wouldn't do anything at the two and a half hours, it would actually be amplifying around four, five hertz. That was no good, basically. So it was basically an outdated technology it was another opportunity for us to to do a wave with that and bring in state of the art technology which is the active system that really pushes their resonance into point one and point two hertz and they begin really canceling and and and attenuating vibration not only at the two and a half hours even below that. And that's huge. You know, people don't realize that those frequencies are not something that can forgive or forget and ignore. They are as important for us to isolate. And and so so imagine when you build a TMC solution into my structural solution, TMC is bringing in and and and start working for me at at anywhere from, you know, point five, very low frequencies below one hertz all the way to the higher frequencies. So in in and that is really where at the heart of our solution that it it it really created this final solution And so, basically, I had to bring this up to the client very early. I think I remember I was doing a presentation on a weekly basis in Portland, and I basically this was my my layout that that this is how it's going to be solved. And and and and and buying getting the clients buy in for additional expenditure because these were not a solution that did not cost. But a solution that make the problem you know, solve the problem. And and and and so, you know, TMC's solution needed out there as part of the design of the facility, and and that opportunity had to be, you know, we had to get this thing, you know, accepted by the client that this is how we are going to solve this problem. And and and that was the, you know, that was the ending. Yeah. And I and I really like Amad how you touched on the internal vibration isolation systems to the instrument, air isolators inside the cryo on microscope. That's actually a very important part of any vibration, cancellation sort of plan. If you're going to go with any vibration cancellation system, especially an active system, it's absolutely critical that that system is compatible. With the isolators that are inside what it's built to support. So a lot of these types of instruments, the transmission electron microscopes, the cryo tems, the NMRs, any kind of semiconductor manufacturing tools, a lot of different types of microscopes focused ion beam tools, lithography tools, and things like that. They all have their own internal isolation systems a vast majority of these isolation systems are the types that Ahmad mentioned, the air isolators, pneumatic isolators that are gonna be resonating at two, three, four, five hertz. And if you're gonna put that on an active cancellation system, it's absolutely critical that that active cancellation system is complimentary to that system. Not it doesn't fight that system. It doesn't couple with that system. It doesn't have resonances within those ranges. And that's one thing that's very unique about the TMC act of cancellation systems is that we are compatible and we're designed to be complementary with vibration cancellation systems that are already inside a lot of these instruments. All right, Y'all, we're gonna go ahead and start to wrap up the podcast. I appreciate all the insights on this specific of the case study, hopefully our audience drew some great insights from that on how to address the situation, how to do proper research, you know, specifically around soil vibration, floor vibration, understanding the surrounding environment, and then applying that into a multi tiered approach, right, where you both solve building vibration, as well as a more granular vibration of the research tool itself. But again, if folks want the more detailed analysis here where you can really read top to bottom, the full scale of the research. You can head to our website, techmfg dot comlearning. You can also find the link in the podcast description below. What I want to go ahead and do now, I wanted Michael to close out the podcast is turn this case study into some actionable tips for our audience. So what would you say life science researchers should take away from what work for solving the cancer research projects' vibration issues as other researchers out there look to improve their own resistance to floor vibrations, whether that's through a new building, new technology, you know, a new understanding of their ecosystem, etcetera. So again, what should life science researchers take away from what worked for this case study and why? Yeah. So, yeah, my my concluding remarks would be is that you know, they they they are pushing down in terms of demanding from the environment So a lot of scientists do realize that they need to find a good environment. A lot of the research and development happens within university studies and universities are sitting in in urban settings, So there's a lot of activities that impacts. So it's always you know, the the very first thing that every every researcher would want to do is is find a good spot, a quiet spot to start with because that is your starting point is is where, you know, where you realize what else you need to do beyond that. And and it is a it is a challenging, you know, problem, and it is becoming challenging But in my opinion, you know, there are technologies. We are all becoming smarter and and and finding better solutions to what we have and to to deal with these challenging problems. But, you know, Otherwise, you know, it it is there is the nature of that nature of the problem, miniaturization and micro and nanoscale. Demands these these type of, you know, view of the problem and and and more like Michael mentioned, kind of divide and conquer, you know, start with a good side and and and look at your opportunities within your facility to to do better in in your design. Yeah. And I would add to that that as a word of advice, planning, I think is probably the most important thing that anyone can do, and they at this at this at this customer, this client, they they did a good job of engaging experts like Oman and engaging experts like TMC knowing they were gonna need vibration some sort of vibration control. So you've always gotta plan ahead and don't take for granted of the fact that if you don't need vibration control now, you might need it in the future. Environments are extremely dynamic, one day construction could go up next year, super quiet building, and all of a sudden you have a vibration problem that you never had before. So I think these instruments like the cryo electron microscopes and and many others, they're extremely expensive and extremely complex to install, and the last thing you wanna do is encounter a vibration problem that you didn't plan for, and then have to go and renovate your facility, move out the tool, and start to put in some sort of mitigation approach, you know, a couple years after you've already moved the tool in. This could set you back hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more. And I'm not to mention all the lost research time. So I think planning is very, very important. Expect the unexpected. It's very common for vibration to show up when a couple years after. Than even though they might not have been there in the beginning, but also you might start to do research, your research limit, gonna be pushing in at the envelope. So you might be doing a nanometer and several nanometer level research today and vibration might not be a problem, but your field's going to advance. Your instruments are gonna get need to go into higher levels of sensitivity. And so as time goes on, if you didn't have a vibration problem today, then just the work that you're doing might make a vibration a problem even though maybe the vibration level stay the same. So it's something that's sort of always coming at you, and I would say, plan to be conservative, and and and work with companies like TMC and LICA, like a VACC to to understand, you know, not only what you need now, but also what you might need in the future. And then my last question for y'all is also kind of a concluding remark here, but a little more focused on projects that are having to start from the ground up. So this can be for really any of your clients, not just sciences. But when building a new lab or research facility, where do you recommend that research professionals, facility managers, and construction professionals start to line up their needs accurately and effectively to center vibration control at the very beginning of the process, right? What are some of your tips for just getting all those ducks in a row early? Yeah. These these sort of facilities often, they do recognize that they do have this vibration is a is big part of the design, And, you know, if I tell you that when you're looking at micro and nano vibration design of facilities, Basically, the entire structural foundation system is actually controlled by micro vibration design. Often, you know, structural engineers designing the same building for, let's say, earthquake in California or some other, you know, structural loads but my experience has been that in the demanding setting, actually, the entire facility's design is controlled by micro vibration. So that means they they they they the ownership, they need to, you know, have this at the beginning from the site selection, characterizing the environment, understanding like Mike says not only the environment today, but the environment future, and and and bringing all that into the design such that you go through the design and your facility we didn't even talk about the facility sources, but as Michael says, if you look at a semiconductor, for example, we have a lot of mechanical energy that has to be powering and and and and and and allowing for the operation of those kind of facilities. Well, they are actually vibration sources. So often these facilities, they are complex even in a R and D setting. You're always balancing between sources of vibration in the facility, sources of vibration in the environment, and then your sensitive receptors, which are these instruments. And and and and that all require really from beginning and site selection all the way through the design and meticulously controlling every step of the design and cons even construction you know, a lot of times, we we design and when we go back to construction and inspection of construction, we find issues So it's it's a is a is a well thought and well planned execution to make these projects these are the facilities successful you have to be aware of all of that, and and that's really a lot of these R and D facilities and university folks, they are experienced, and they understand and recognize that, and they they they incorporate that into their into their design and construction. I also think one of the challenge that that occurs when you're setting out on a facility design is you might not necessarily know at the time your design of the facility, what instruments you're going to be using. You might have a general idea, but but you don't necessarily have an idea of a specific one. So that gives it that makes it difficult in a in a in a in a planning stages and in a design stages to really have a design spec for the level of vibration that you need to shoot for to shoot to. So, you know, we try to understand what those tool sets are and what those vibration needs are as early as possible. And sometimes you get lucky and you know exactly what instruments are coming in and you can get the specs for those tools and and start to design towards that. But sometimes, is a little more vague, and you've got a facility that might be used for a number of different operations. And you've kinda kind of think about well, what's the level of vibration that I should shoot for if I'm bringing in a bunch of unknown tools. And the the most conservative route is as low as possible. But but sometimes that's a little bit overkill. And a good reference of the VC curves. You can look at the vibration criteria, criterion curves, which are published by Colin and Gordon, and you can look at those and see, well, what what type of operations am I doing and what's appropriate vibration level for for those types of operations? And another resource that you go to is is other folks in your industry that you're working with, which I think is a very, very common way that that that stakeholders get information about how to plan for vibration control. They look at their colleagues that are doing similar projects may have new buildings or old buildings or renovated buildings, but they might be using similar tools. And they they just talk to each other and say, well, what have you done for vibration control? So I think that that those external those references and that communication among among stakeholders in this type of project is also very important. And I think on that note team, we'll go ahead and wrap up. Hopefully, our audience can take some of those actionable tips and apply them to their future projects and updates and upgrades to their existing vibration control techniques and ecosystem. But till then, let's go ahead and call it. Folks, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast to our two guests. Thank you for your perspective and your insight and wisdom. And for getting granular with that case study, definitely a lot to unpack. And again, we do have a more detailed case study in written form that you can access. So I'll point our folks to that in the description below. They can also go to our White Papers section in our learning section of our website. You can find that again at tech m f g dot com slash learning. And again, I want to thank our two guests First, we had Ahmad Beyat, President of Viper Acoustic Consultants, and we were also joined by Mike Georgealis, North American sales manager for TMC. A mod, if folks want to find out more about VACC is work, maybe get in contact for some more thought leadership or advice consultation on a new project? How can they do so? Well, our website is w w w dot v a dash consult. Dot com. And so we've been around for twenty plus years, you know, in these, you know, design space And so with Google right now, it's easy to to locate. And then, you know, our direct phone number is four one five six nine three zero four two four. Yeah. If anybody has any questions, I would be more more than happy to entertain their questions and you know, what I think my concluding remark is that this is we have an amazing field I I really enjoy because it is a no problem is the same. Every time, you know, I mean, I'm you know, even semiconductor factories like Michael was saying, as much as they are predictable where we know what it is, I was just dealing with a problem that one of the tools has created for the customer. And so we are like now, the facility is running. We have to look back and and analyze. So so this is the is a very dynamic environment. And and problem, and we all appreciate that we are able to solve those kind of problems for our customers. And then, Mike, if folks wanna contact you for any specific advice, or just to get in touch about maybe locking in a TMC product, how can they do so? Yeah. They can visit our website. We have contact forms on the website, TechM gmail dot com. They could also email me directly, m I k e dot Georgeales, g e o r g a l I s at amatek a m e t e k dot com. They can also call me call me directly at two one six Four zero seven nine nine three two. Fantastic, easy enough. I love when our guests throw out every channel possible always always a, you know, a sign of goodwill. So team, thank you so much for your time. Again, Ahmad and Mike, y'all really, you know, gave us the full scope of the project, and I'm looking forward to continuing our conversations. I'm sure we have case studies coming up, more thought leadership to bring to the podcast, but till then we'll go ahead and call it. So I'm odd, Mike. Thanks again for joining us, and we'll chat again soon. Sure. Thank you a lot, guys. Thanks, Ahmad. Thanks, Daniel. We hope you enjoyed part three of this three part conversation, but if you wanna listen to the whole conversation, unedited, and complete in its thought leadership. You can do so very soon on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and also on tech m f g dot com, make sure that you subscribe and keep an eye out for that full conversation for your convenience available soon. Of Daniel Littwin, the voice of b to b, and we'll catch you again soon.