Sabrina Wilson and the Power of Perseverance: Part 1 of 2

Welcome to Get Vertical. Our guest is Sabrina Wilson, Senior Vice President of Human Resources at Durham Caba America's Sabrina is a highly accomplished strategic and innovative HR executive with a wealth of experience in navigating rapid growth business environment turnarounds, mergers and acquisitions, and international expansions. Sabrina excels in building high performance teams, collaborating with CEOs and spearheading transformative initiatives. Her accomplishments include revamping business visions, implementing six Sigma methodologies for sustainable growth, and creating early talent programs. In this episode, you're gonna hear some powerful nuggets from Sabrina. Some of the things to listen for include how she helped develop a career to positively impact tens of thousands of people, how the courage of her father helped shape her outlook on life. How an internship changed the trajectory of her career. How earning a black belt in Taekwondo helped reinforce a can do mentality. One of the things that she said is make sure you put your energy where you were wanted. Make sure you have success there. Know yourself, and control yourself. Those are just a few of the nuggets that you're going to be able to take away from this story in this episode. So get ready to be inspired by her wisdom and expertise as we explore the dynamic world of human resources and its profound impact on organizational growth and success. Hang on tight as we get vertical with Sabrina Wilson. First off, thanks so much for joining us. I really appreciate that. And you aren't always a senior vice president of HR for a multinational company. You had an incredible career and incredible run, but every story has a beginning. Can you tell us a little bit about about where you came from and how you got to be where you are. Thanks, Mike, for having me on this. This is a great opportunity to talk about my story. I'm actually gonna go way back because I think my story starts with how I grew up. And I I am the daughter, the result of a teenage pregnancy. My dad graduated from high school turned eighteen, joined the Air Force, married my mom who was pregnant with me all within, like, sixty days. And, so just a remarkable kind of start, but My dad was Air Force. I was, born. My mom was sixteen. And two years later, my sister Tracy was born, and it was the the four of us. But at the age of five, my dad had orders to go to England. And, my mom at the last minute decided not to go. And so here we are in a foreign country, twenty three year old, with two little girls, a five and three year old. And I I know you've got sons, so can you imagine you're one of your sons at twenty three in a foreign country without a support network with a five year old and a three year old. That's insane. And in the seventies. So there there was an exam all of the accommodations that we have with, you know, family restrooms and all the other things that we have today. But my my dad assumed complete responsibility. We rented a a small house in this very small village of like five hundred people. Was completely adopted by this, village and my dad secured a nanny for my sister and someone to get me off to school each morning. And that became our life, but it didn't feel like something bad or something was wrong. It was It was our it was our normal. And the best part of it was I grew up without any gender roles. My dad was dad, mom, caretaker, you know, breadwinner, and there was no rules on us. There was you can do anything you want to do, and there was no excuses. You couldn't say, oh, I can't do that. I'm a girl or, you know, so I mowed the lawn and took care of things just like just like anyone else would. And so I think growing up without gender roles, allowed me to not have limits or about how I thought about what I could do or who I could be. The other other thing that I think was very impactful growing up in England, know, I had Margaret thatcher and queen Elizabeth on the telly. So you have these powerhouse women that are, you know, the images that I saw and, you know, princess Leah on the big screen, you know, she's leading the rebellion. So my my figures of women were quite different. And, you know, men, my dad was everything. And so I think that was a huge influence on what I thought I could be and how I could grow up. Wow. Yeah. That's that shapes your worldview tremendously, doesn't it? Absolutely. And so as you you went through that, right, at At what point did you did you start running into some headwinds and some challenges? And when did you decide what you wanted to do with your career? So two questions. Right? You know, I I started to notice gender roles, what, actually, when I was at Purdue University, and, really started to see that there was a difference in how men and women were treated in the classroom and I started to pick up on those things, while I was at university. But at that time, I also recognized I was at a time Purdue engineering school, which mostly men, it was a good opportunity to take some self defense classes. And I started to study Taipando, which I did for, you know, a couple of decades and obtained my third degree black belt. So I think that gave me an inner confidence, that was pretty remarkable. But I I didn't know that I wanted to do human resources until between my freshman and sophomore year, of college. I was doing an internship for this manufacturing company. It was an amazing manufacturing company in North Carolina, Winston Salem, North Carolina called Industries for the Blind, and it was a manufacturing firm that hired blind employees. And my role was to, serve as receptionist, support accounting, procurement, and this little thing called personnel. So they myself a little bit. Before it was human resources. And it was really the work that I was, just seeing that the personnel director the work she was doing, how she was supporting the employees, leveraging outside resources so that the employees could live and work independently regardless of not having their sight. Some of them didn't have their sight or their hearing. And I I went back, and to to redirected my coursework. At the time, there wasn't a human resources degree, but I redirected, my coursework to kind of fit business and things around, human behavior and, communication and culture and all of those pieces. That's amazing. So how did you end up connecting with that company? So I it The president of the company was my mom's landlord. Okay. So yeah. So, when So when my my parents separated when I was quite young and both remarried and established, new families, my my mom, lived in North Carolina, and I would spend summers with my mom, and school years with my dad after we returned from England, So I, went to, went to my mom's house and, of course, started to look for a job and introduced I don't know. Mom was probably paying rent or something and introduced me to the landlord, and he's like, well, why don't you come in and talk to talked to us. And so it was really that connection. And I I I I think you'll find throughout my my life. It's about people and connections of have always landed me wherever I was next. That makes so much. And it's interesting because one of the things that you've glossed over or maybe we haven't talked about Right? Is aren't you a first generation college student too? Yes. I am. Okay. Yes. I am. Alright. So let's hit plus. Let's go back. In the time machine for a second. And think about this at at least as I'm framing up your story, what I'm hearing is you came from really tough situation between, you know, your dad and your mom with teenage pregnancy and you saw him just live out what I call kind of a bootstrap lifestyle, right, which is we're just gonna get it done. No excuses. And and he's imparted that to you, but there's also a generational aspect to it, which is How did you decide to go from, you know, from that background, right, to say, oh, I've gotta go to college. And then you're able to turn that into an internship and whatnot. So, yeah, back us up real quick. How did you decide to go to college and how did you make that happen? Well, let me back up to how my, how my school was for me. So I I'm assuming a lot of your listeners are going to be Americans and probably went to an in school. And so school was very different. So when we landed in that village, it's a very small village. There was a very small schoolhouse, three room schoolhouse that, that that I attended. And each classroom would have multiple ages of students. And so the way that the the school system worked was they you kind of self paced So you would get your books for what your age appropriate was, but you could work through, let's say, like, your math books. As as quickly as you wanted to, and you could pace yourself through that. So it wasn't like in the American school, your first grade, so you only take first grade level you know, classes or learn that first grade level things. But what I discovered is I had a passion for learning and math, and so I would just whiz through And I would be on to the next book and then the next book. And because the teacher had to teach multiple, age groups within a classroom, It also worked on your attention span. Right? So sometimes, you know, they're teaching something, and I'd always dial in and listen and always trying to to I just learned very early that I had this passion for for learning and this hunger for learning. The other thing that was super cool about being in that school system, it wasn't just about book learning. So we had, music classes. I I learned how to play the violin. We had gymnastic classes, cooking classes, gardening classes, bicycle safety classes, we we learned how to identify plants. We learned how to, you know, learn how safe safety in the swimming pool or, you know, if you were in the lake, you know, somebody falls in, what do you do to, you know, help save them? So it was this very rounded level of learning that was really unique. It's not something that you experience in in the American school. So we were there for five years, and that was that was the foundational years from five to ten of of learning learn us that desire for learning. And so I knew I never wanted to stop learning. And so for me, that meant you know, going on to college and and continuing to learn. And that's still a passion of of where I am at today. And so I think having that passion to always want to learn and grow and develop on top of the kind of that spirit of Nothing can hold you back and but yourself, and, you know, you figure out how to make things happen and be resourceful. And that's exactly what I did. I, applied for whatever financial aid pay pe pell grants, whatever kind of local scholarships that I could apply to. I took out student loans. I did whatever it took. I I I did work study. I worked my entire time through college, but I knew that that's what I wanted to do, and there there was no no holding me back. It's just like that. It's inspiring. You didn't take no for an answer. Right? And -- Right. -- you've found ways to make it happen. And I think about so many people in life right that just stop at the first no. Or or the second or the third now. Right? And as I've studied different stories of success, over time, they're they almost always correspond with As a matter of fact, no, I would dare say they always correspond with a story of perseverance. Right? It's it's the ability to grind when everything looks yucky. Right? And it's just keeping your nose to the grindstone. So, alright. Right. You've you've decided you're gonna go to school. And you found this first internship. You fell in love with personnel, right, just because the ability, at least what I've heard, the ability to impact and influence for the positive people's lives. And I know this, when you and I work together, which was, I don't know, fifteen years after that. I'm guessing fifteen or sixteen years after that. You still had that same passion. Right? Geered. And even when you and I were talking and preparing for this call, that passion is still there. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. So what are what are a couple of things that have if you look back over the course of your career, if you could point to and say, That was a incredible experience, and I'm proud of doing this where you were able to impact people's lives, either through programs that you've implemented or just helping someone out? At there's a lot of things that would come to mind, but I I have to say what really stands out to me was when I was at, CH2M, So an engineering firm in Colorado headquartered in Colorado, we had a very large global presence and about three hundred and fifty HR people around the globe. But like most organizations and most populations, you know, people that are aging and thinking about retirement. So how do you build that talent pipeline? And so we started a HR rotational program hiring, hiring HR professionals right out of their master's degree and then rotating them through all of the different functions of human resources. So recruiting benefits, compensation, business partner, just all of the different, the pieces. And, we we hired our first one and just sort of was like, figure it out. And, fortunately Max was a very, a resilient person and kind of navigated his way a little bit. And then, our HR leader came to me and said, hey, we really want somebody to, like, program manage this because it it needs a little bit more effort. And I'm like, absolutely, I I want to do this. So being the program manager of the HR rotational program was pretty much the highlight of of my career. And it was something I did on top of. So I I still had my full time job and, the the job that I I feel like I got paid for. The rotational program for me was more of a passion, and it was one I would give up sleep to do because it was something that I was so passionate about. But during that time, there were, over, I think, about twelve fourteen HR professionals. We recruited them right out of their master's degree program. And then my responsibility was to work with all of the centers of excellent, leaders to figure out what projects they could rotate and do And the the purpose was for them in six months to just have this accelerated learning, whether it was in talent acquisition, talent management, what whatever the piece was and actually start to contribute and add value within the organization and deliver on projects. And, I'm just so proud of each and every one of them. And the different things that they accomplished during time and continue to accomplish. I still touch base and talk to, almost all of them. Within the last week, two of them have sent me a text. And, hey, I'm applying for a job. Will you be a reference? And the other was, hey, we haven't talked in a while. What's up? And that to me just even now, it gives me goosebumps. Just know that, you know, as part of their coaching and mentoring and pushing them, to do to try new things to, you know, handle conflict. And, you know, I would meet with them and, you know, how were things going, and if things weren't going well, instead of stepping in and going and talk to the leader, I would say, okay. Look, how we're gonna handle that? And really helping them navigate, that that period of their accelerated learning And now they're they're out in the HR profession. Some are, you know, HR directors and vice presidents and different types of roles. And really proud of that. And I've actually implemented the same program at Dormacaba, and I just had my first I'm getting ready to have my first graduate from the program two years of rotating, and I couldn't be more proud of what she's accomplished in that two years. And So for me, it's it's that development of people and seeing them grow and, but it's not just entry level. I've I've spend some time coaching, you know, presence presidents of the company, vice presidents, and seeing them develop or and improve their their style and how they work with their teams or being part of their team development is is really important to me as well. That's that's well said. And it's it's inspiring when you think about the way you've been able to impact so many people's lives. Right, directly and indirectly. That's not something that happens. I believe that's not something that happens naturally, and I don't think that happens often without a fair bit of intent and, and also experience along the way. So if you think back over the course of your career now, were there moments that helped influence you that were what I call moments of truth where we had to look ourselves in the mirror and say, I'm going to go have this conversation with this person, right, that was a hard conversation, but a great, a great great thing happened because of it. Does that make sense? Yeah. Gosh. You know, those are always those are always difficult. Right? So when you have to deliver some messages to people. And and some people react really well to that, and some people don't. I've I've had situations where I've tried to, provide coaching to, a biz business group president and just letting him know how he's coming across to his team and just trying to help him. He's like, yeah, I've been told that. Okay. And it's like, I'm not gonna change. I know this about myself. And so That that's those those things are difficult. Right? So then you you have to, you know, realize that you're not gonna make a change, but maybe the way I work with that person changes, or and I coach their direct reports to to work with him differently. But there's been times where, you know, sometimes you you meet with someone, and they just don't realize how they're coming across and that was never their intention. And they they really take that very heartfelt and And those are the moments that are that are impactful that you know, and you can see the person really trying to to redirect their the way that they they act or present themselves, you know, I had one leader that was just painfully shy. Like, on the Myers Briggs scale of introvert, he was the most extreme, that you could even find And he didn't realize just by the way he walked around with his, you know, face. And, he wouldn't say anything to people that there was coming across that he was a ver that he was mean, that he was grumpy, and that he was not approachable. And so basic coaching, like, hey, when someone steps in the elevator and you're there, say hello to them. I mean, I mean, the next thing really basic, but that wasn't something that was in his DNA because he was just this extreme introvert and and very shy. So it it it varies depending on the person. I I think one of the things that I I do really well is look at individuals. And and and I think sometimes people assume HR is trying to treat everybody the same, and I'm not wired that way. I I think I believe in fairness, But I believe each person has something individually to offer, and it's helping bring that that out of them is is the most important thing that I can do. I love that. It was interesting. I I think that's one of the complications that we had when we first met. And I think you kind of introduced me to the concept of situational what's not situational leadership and situational management. Right? That's that's kind of basic. But there's also this notion of putting people in positions where they're they're set up to win. Right? Yeah. And then so often businesses. One of our colleagues, I had a conversation, with him that somebody you and I had worked with for a number of years. Had a conversation with him a few years back, and he he was saying that some of the work that he had done, he found where companies inadvertently create positions where people are doomed to fail. Right? And then you could take the best most talented, hardworking individual, and it doesn't matter who you put in that role. They're just going to fail and fail and fail. And so many times organizations don't realize that in health, they've ground through three or four people. Right? Right. Right? And I think it's I I think when I think about what I do, I mean, people human resources, they think of us as the hiring, firing department. Right? And I I don't I don't think about that as my role. My role is getting the right people in the right place at the right time doing the right things. And that if you you can be the most talented person But if you're put in something that you're not that is not your natural talents, it's gonna be difficult for you. And you might do okay, but you're not you could be miserable doing it. And I and I learned that. Instinctively, I learned that, but it was also through Gallup's, Clifton Stranks, the strengths finder is assessment that I've I've been a huge fan of for, I don't know, since two thousand ten, twelve or so. And there are natural things that we do that give us joy that we're good at. And then there's some things that it just takes a lot of energy and effort to do, and and it's not where we we have our passion. And so for me, finding what does the organization need and what are their people are good at? And then how do you bring those two things together? And to me, that's that's the intersection, that's where magic happens. That's that's where companies thrive. That's where companies grow. And do do great things is when they're leveraging people's strengths. And to me, that's the most important thing. I love the way you've said that, and there's a part of it that I've gotta dig deeper on. How do you scale that? Understand how you can do that. No one, you know, in in an individual instance, but you've led organizations with twenty thousand people ahead. Right? It's it's really hard to replicate that twenty thousand times. So how do you how do you scale it maybe not to twenty thousand times, but how do you how do you extend beyond the five or ten com deep conversations that you can have or maybe not five or ten, but, you know, how do you how do you scale it? I think it's one team at a time. Right? So first, you know, it's it's my my team positioning my team to be able to be that good HR business partner so that they can work with other teams. If I If I even thought for a moment, this was all about me, I would fail. So it's it's first making sure your your HR team were we're working on the right things that we're able to go out and really impact one team at a time. And not spending time on one of the things that frustrates about human resources, and I don't wanna be seen as the police and the rule maker and all of those things. You know, there's just stuff we have to do, but let's just automate it. Or let's why do we why are you doing that? Like, I'll I'll give you one example. You know, when somebody has a death in the family and you have bereavement and you make the you make the employee bring in certification or documentation that they went to a funeral. Why? Why? They're grieving. Just trust them. And so just cutting out waste, make things simple, make the employee experience the best that you can. Don't waste your time on, you know, collecting documentation or something that if, you know, if somebody wants to falsify a death, then have a conversation with that person. Don't don't make it a whole big process. And I jokingly said one dying to someone. Oh, what are we doing with all of those? We're creating a scrapbook somewhere because I don't see the purpose of collecting these. And so it's, first of all, getting my own house in order, right, get rid of waste, make things simple, think about the employee experience and how you wanna be, and then have your HR people focusing on what they can do with leaders and with teams and with individuals. And if you start to multiply yourself that way, then that's how that's how you start to reach an organization of a thousand or twenty thousand or whatever it may be. And I recently, I I was working with a leader that was saying, well, what about, you know, Joe Smith doesn't want to do this team building that I've been doing with the other leaders, you know, how do I make him do it? And I go, you don't. Go spend your energy on the leaders that really want this that do do this. And then when manager Joe Smith sees how great The other managers and the other teams are rocking it, they're gonna say, hey, that thing you did with them, will you come work with my team? And that's how you start to do it is you put your energy where you can get the best return. And some some will never come around and some will But put your energy where where you're gonna have success, and it it does come. It all it always does. It just takes time and And then those individuals feel seen. They feel heard. They're part of a team, and people wanna be part of a winning team. And when you're winning, you want more of it, and you want more success. And that and that to me is how you you start to build on successful companies.