The Evolving Role of the Modern Integrator

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Pro AV today. Today's discussion is one I've been looking forward to having for a while, and especially coming out of shows like n a b and obviously infocom. One of the major takeaways is that you're seeing a massive evolution in the channel and the way that really AV products and broadcast products have been distributed over the last thirty years. One of those ways is really finding ways for integrators and value added resellers to create more value outside of just being an actual distributor of product. So I wanted to dig a little bit more today and ask some questions really about that and ask an integrator specifically how the day to day has has evolved. So brought on Kevin Henneman, president over at k m h integration. Kevin, thanks so much for coming on today. Thank you, Ben. Thanks for having me. Well, Kevin, we we talked about it just a second ago, but, obviously, the the the role of the integrator has shifted significantly. Right? Not only from a in a distribution standpoint, but now there's requirements of customer service. Have conversations like a, b, as a service, things like that as well. You know, just to kick us off, you know, what are some of the ways that you've already seen your day to day change over the last probably three to four years? Maybe compared to even ten years ago? So that's a great question, Ben. And there has absolutely been a shift in an increase in what is is being expected of a the classic systems integrator Yesterday, I had three phone calls, three different customers, all three of them asking me if we could actually staff their shows. Put a a chief engineer in the room, in the control room, put a TV on a switcher, an a one, Not the actual, you know, obviously producing a show that's them. But but they're that is a that's a big change. And I've seen this happening over the last couple years where it's kinda heading in that direction. Maybe COVID helped drive some of that, I'm sure. But that's that's been a major change to to what we're being looked for. Now looked at for to provide those kinds of services, which we can. So so as an integrator, I've had to sort of constantly monitor those that shift or that that changing tide, if you will. I see that our customers are looking for more of hate to there's a lot of, you know, these overused phrases these days, but turnkey now means design, well, consult, develop the requirements, design, build, procure all the equipment, test it, commission, to train them. And now it means and and it would used to mean, you know, support them. Right? So if there's technical problem, they give you a call, they send you an email, fill out a ticket, whatever. Now it's hey, can you provide the staff to actually execute show for us. And that's a little different, you know. I mean, that's that's I mean, I'm telling you that was yesterday. And and these are not I can't divulge exactly what they were, but these are major major people saying, hey, we need help with this. Can you help? And fortunately, we've kind of our organization has seen that kind of coming over the last few years. So we've got some strategic relationships with people. I mean, we don't we don't staff TDs necessarily, but we've got some partners that that we've done work with on other for other customers over the years, and if now it's just a bit of taking that next step with MSA. Okay. Let's get an MSA in place let's get a contract going. Let's let's start to offer this as part of our upfront services proposal, you know. So that's a that's a big change. Well, it's funny you mentioned that especially kind of in the the broadcast side, you know, being able to provide that value. Right? Because a lot of times, you're right. Clients need just help and assistance, and they need that scalability. Right? And, you know, that that is is one of the things that I love to see about the way that you guys have worked. Right? And a lot of other successful AV integrators, installers have kind of updated the way that they're working. Right? Because when you when you look at you know, whether it's a more educated end user base, whether it's accessibility of being able to go to the Amazons, the b n h's of the world, to kinda make your own installations as an end user. The role of of the integrator has shifted more from almost the the middle man pass through. We're the only ones who can get the gear and install it for you to having to provide a lot of that value. Right? One thing I'll bring up is the idea of of AV as a service or integration as a service. You know, you talked about obviously staffing being one of the ways that you're creating long term value and retention. What are some of the other ways, whether it's support, whether it's training? How have you seen that shift impact you guys directly? So, yeah, Well, I guess I'll back up a little bit and state that when I started doing this, which was a little little while ago, you know, I I came at this from the broadcast integration side. So my background was designing and building recording studios, audio audio recording studios. And then that progressed into video production and editing systems And, you know, the the approach that I learned as I moved through as my career progressed was that, you know, there's a project. There's a scope of work. There's an operational requirement. And and you're going to design, get the gear, put it in, and you're gonna build that system, and then turn it over to the customer and and then they have a happy life, and that's it. And you you may talk to them again, you know. And so that that goes back a few years. But that is long gone. Long gone. And if you couple that with and back back when that when that was a a reality that sort of approach of a of a start here, stop here, and you're done. Back then, the the technology was such that it was very there's a a clear delineation between AV and broadcast. That also is long gone. Long gone. There is no more like, oh, we're gonna build a conference room and you know, put you know, we need some Crestron or Extron or what and we're gonna we want a projector, you know, or let's say a theater, We just finished a very large project. I guess I can talk about it. News twelve, where they they extended our contract and now include their executive auditorium, and and that's already tied into their broadcast facility. If these are things that like, I would say to people, we're we're planning a a sports project. Let's say, they got stayed in. They've got the the the headquarters for the team. You know, one of the first things we talk about is, like, what what what existing connectivity you have? Where's the fiber? Like, how much fiber? What kind of fiber? Because you could see coming for years that there was gonna be a sharing of content, a sharing of of operational workflow. So I would say that that that what we have seen is that with the technology, sort of and and and a large part that's due to the the the proliferation of IP, audio and video over IP. You've got a network that exists already And if you can parse it out properly or segment it out properly, you can run AV's audio, video, and or broadcast systems on there. You've got you know, protocols like SRT and and NDI that that makes that part of it much more this I won't say super easy, but but it's it's a lot more accessible. Those workflows now are a lot more accessible. And and you're kind of you'd be remiss not to be able talk about that with your customer and say, keep this in mind. You might not have the budget to do this right now, but we need to plan for it. We were just founded a very large university Wednesday. And we're we're starting a small TV channel upgrade for them. But part of the discussion was about the bigger project, which is, you know, more buildings being tied together, more more, you know, it it's an educational facility, so there's a little bit of of that factor there too. But it's what I've seen is the is the the the merging of the AV and the broadcast technology and it's really kind of being driven by the IP workflows that are that are available. So for us for us, it's it's we have to at least address it with our customers so they're aware of it. But I hope that answers your question then. I'm not sure if I drifted too much from that. It no. It it it it does, and you bring up a really good point. And and I wanna ask, would you say that that's kind of contributed to the death of the what I'll call the specialty integrator or the hyper specific integrator. And if if so, what are some of the ways that you've seen integration firms, partners, find ways to learn and evaluate and sell some of that technology? Is that through hiring? Is that through training? What are some of the ways that you've seen people adapt outside of that specialty world? Right. Right. Right. That's that's a great great Great question, great point. Well, for us, I mean, look, we we I personally have always I mean, I love the technology. I I love to build things and I love to see all those shiny lights come on and, you know, these images come up and you hear the audio. I love that. It's just always I was always into that. So what what I see happening is that or for us, it's so so given that statement I just made, you know, we're my team, my my company is constantly I mean, I've always encouraged everybody that works for us. Like, listen, you work eight hours a day, you know, you got your lunch or whatever. Take an hour out of every day and just do a little research. Take a little like, it's okay. You know, don't don't worry. You're gonna get in trouble because you're cranking out the latest deliverable or whatever because we know that the technology keeps evolving, and you have to I'm also trying to create an environment where people enjoy that. You you get into the you get hooked on it like, oh, here's the cool new piece of software that does this or does that or So so for us, that's that's how we've kind of addressed that. And there and you you raised a good point. There are specific I mean, I don't know about the the death of a specialty integrator, but you're you're right, though. This you really at least in our world, you really can't you have to be well versed in anywhere or any way that that video com that content can be captured and distributed. You you you you it's it's a it's a far reaching it's much more far reaching these days. And and it it it can sound daunting, but but actually, I think because of of the of the technology, it isn't so daunting. I mean, there's been a a huge you know, evolution in MAM's media asset management and, you know, that so so so if shoot something on your iPhone or your Android or whatever, and that is just as important or just as as as valuable as what's done in a in a large TV studio with very expensive cameras that that are that is produced a different way, but it it's it all matters and it all counts. So for our perspective, from our perspective, it doesn't matter. It's all content that needs to be accessible. And what we're seeing is that at least, you know, you and I are talking about the role of the integrator here. We have to be able to be well versed in those workflows because that's what these you know, they may not know exactly what video format is the proper format to have available for this kind of distribution, that kind of disorder, whatever. But that's what they're looking to us to do. And more so, they don't care about that. They're just they just wanna say, look, I wanna I have a group of people, their social media, they they're gonna shoot this stuff, and I want it to be available to our either our linear broadcast or linear distribution or and or OTT. They don't it doesn't matter. And it's not a big secret, but but from us, from an integrator standpoint, we have to be well versed in all of that. So so there I would agree with you that Like what I described, how my career started, that's gone. Way gone. It's no more no more where you're for us, we're not seeing that. We're people are bringing us in more and more upfront to do the architectural planning, the the the, you know, everything else that goes with that, acoustics, and you know, air conditioning and things like that. But but we're actually becoming a part of their their operational workflow They're leaning on us for that. And it doesn't matter whether it's it's conference rooms or TV studios, post production editing, it's all needs to work together, which is, I guess, if you wanna, you know, another another, you know, integration. Well, there you go. And and make it all work together. You know? So that's that's a real that's that's something that we've seen change over the last, like you said, three or four years. Yeah. Absolutely. We were being brought in more more frequently right up front and the kinds of conversations we're having. I mean, I was on one yesterday with a multi again, I can't say who it is, but a multimedia, multi, you know, multi group work groups, I'll call them, media outlets, all under one big umbrella. And, you know, we're talking about some podcast content. And I'm like, Yvette, this should be accessible. Are you telling me now that you're never gonna wanna be able to pick up that pod cast content and then repurpose it through that other entity that you work with. It's under the one big umbrella. That's kind of if you're not thinking along those lines, you kind of being a little irresponsible. And and and there's all kinds of business things related to that. Like, well, we don't have that kind of a deal in place. Okay. But from the technology side, we need to we you don't want me to be telling you in a year when that that that business relationship changes, and now you're gonna share your content. That while you can't do that because we never wired the fiber in or we didn't plan the switch sizing properly or whatever. So that's that's a big part of what we've been doing is trying to forecast the future a bit for our for our customers. You know? Yeah. And, Kevin, I wanna go back to a point you mentioned a little bit earlier in that answer, which was the role of kind of learning and and always finding ways to educate yourself and and specifically, one of the groups that's done that, almost, you know, autonomously done that on their own is a lot of times the end user. Right? So the the end user in many cases now has a much better idea of what they're looking for, even, you know, preferred technology vendors, things like that. How have you seen the end user kind of drive a lot of those changes in the channel, not only from a capability standpoint, but from a function in an actual technology point? Well, so so that's another great point. The Okay. So so, again, not to keep rehashing the the -- Rehashing it. -- my career. Yeah. Yeah. Well well, look look, there was always a look, major networks, you know, they have a lab, right? So then they had they had dedicated engineering resources that their job was to evaluate new product, evaluate new technology, new product, new workflows even, and build those wanna call it a POC, a proof of concept, or whatever, or just put a piece of equipment on a bench and test it. How does it work? Does it do what we need to do? I have I I've seen that approach have been reduced a little bit. In the classic sense, the classic sense of a maintenance shop or a maintenance lab or a broadcast lab, what we do see happening is there are like we did for another large broadcaster, they we built for them. It was there that we kinda co designed it together, but but the idea came from them, which was to basically put all different types of OTT platform devices in a in a room, get them connected get them working with monitoring and and and and diagnostic software, I'll call it. And basically run run tests to see what kind of content works well on on this platform or on that platform, and and what types of infrastructure will support those devices and those workflows. So I I and and I'm so what I've seen, Ben, is I've seen that the it's still the same approach where where the end user is investing their own time and effort, they have to. They have to. But but that's traditionally or or or or or what I've seen is that is the more the larger type entities. Some of the smaller ones and by small, I don't mean tiny. I just mean, you know, they're not the major networks, let's say. But these are still people that are producing very powerful content They're really relying on us for that. So what we did a couple years ago was when I think right before COVID about a year before COVID started actually We had put our heads together here and we said, well, look, I've always been a big fan of, you know, we get get demo equipment. Or we or we we we we do the same thing. We evaluate the equipment. Right? We but what we want we want a couple of couple of steps much further than that, and we actually built what we called our streaming lab, which we gave it a name as Marquis, was basically a NDI SRT Dante based software production platform. So software based production platform that that tied in to what we were calling our remote field packs, which is not a new thing for people. But basically, it was a PTC style camera IFB microphone and a management layer, a management piece of software running on a on a on a souped up laptop in the field. And those would tie back to our our streaming hub, our marquee production platform. We demoed that for a number of different customers And so when you ask, like, you know, how what how are we vetting out or how are we how how are the end users and or us, you know, we that's what we're doing. We had multiple multiple customers come here to get a demo. And in fact, that's a project I can talk about is we we we worked with the the the Lapine group. But basically, it was a the Puerto Rican traveling theater in New York City, the Pala Theatre. I'm sure you've heard of those guys, and we're currently doing two other projects under that same umbrella. And we're using that technology that our lab actually proved out because I, you know, I've always believed that I I I'm not gonna just wave my hand and go like, oh yeah, it works fine. Don't worry about it. Our engineers and our people got a chance to actually learn it, see it, touch it. And you find out the little nuances of it that that either will work for a customer or maybe won't So that's what we did. We invested some of our own money. We we we partnered with some some manufacturers. We built it we tested it, and we've we've had people come here and go, alright, that's what I wanna do. On the end user side, I think that that that concept is still there, but it has changed. I think the you know, putting a putting a a a rasterizer or or or something of that nature on a bench and running it through an oscilloscope. I don't think that's happening too much anymore. But but but having software development lab like we did for, that was Viacom was the other guys, where we built that built that room for them, designed it and built it. And it was specifically done just to allow them to test their apps and their content on different devices and through different styles I'll say or I don't want to use use protocols, I guess. But that's probably that's probably accurate protocols as well. Just test the workflows out to see if they launch something, some new some new portal to get content, Is it gonna work on an Android? Is it gonna work on an iPhone? Is it gonna work on a a Mac mini or or, you know, a small PC or something or how will how well will it work? So that's what it shifted to. I mean, I get it's the same thing, but it's focused on the on the IP work. Flows more than than at least when I started with, again, putting a a scope. It's putting on something on a bench and, you know, plugging in color bars and and and analyzing it that way. Which which by the way is an interesting thing that people don't really do too much anymore. Like, you know, like actually run bars through something and go, is this system aligned properly. It still happens, but, you know, that's that's a big change too, Ben. It's like, you know, I hate to say it, but, you know, there are not. There are not people that coming into the business that learn that, you know. So so there's a lot of like, hey, it just needs to get in my phone or my tablet or my desktop. And if it the color looks a little off or this or the other thing, I mean, you know, the level of scrutiny and analyzation that, you know, analyzing it would go into a broadcast signal. If that's still happening at the high end broadcasters, but there's a lot of content that's king, get it out quick, get it out fast, and as long as people can see it. It doesn't lock up and and and they can hear it, that's that's they're happy, you know. So I don't wanna say that the level of quality has dropped, but but there's a much greater tolerance for that. So anyway, we we've we we believe in and I don't want any of our people talking to customers and not saying I want them to be able to confidently say, like, yep. We we know how that works, and we we you know what? And if you want, come back to our office and you can see his demo. We've got We have the hot hog office in the Brooklyn office, and we we can we routinely run that test for people. Say, hey, look, you know, here's somebody, you know, on our on our field system, field pack system, in Hotog and they're connected to the production system, the production hub in Brooklyn. And look, you can talk to them. There's IVB. There's there's there's near the audio. And latency tests, all those things. We did a a pretty big demo for ESPN from Connecticut. We set it up there, and it was and they were they were kind of blown away by that. Now that's not just to be honest, that's not something at least to us as an integrator that is like, wow, this is top secret stuff that's going on. But when people see it happen in front of them, they they their their minds start spinning like, well, wait a minute. And, you know, and somebody had said to me a few years ago. So that's the death of satellite and the death of you know, you know, companies like, you know, the the the switch or, you know, where they have all this fiber and all these fiber hops and all that, then no, no, no, no, That never happens. What happens is that it becomes yet another tool in the toolbox and, you know, there are certain things certain tolerances of, yep, that that IP delivery will work just fine for us. This major event, the Super Bowl or something. No. No. No. No. No. We're not gonna trust the Internet for that. We're gonna we're gonna do that. Although that's also also been that landscape has been shifting where it's it's getting more and more reliable to do the IP detect delivery for remotes and things. So and anyway, hopefully, that's not too much of a worry about. Well, young, when did you know No. The the good thing about it, it was it was a long answer, but it was informative. Right? And I I think that that sometimes that's a perspective that that we tend to lack from time to time as as a community is understanding how the marriage of the integrator in the in the business and the end user comes together. Right? So I appreciate your context with that, Kevin. I feel like we can have this conversation for probably three or four hours. But look, we may even have to have you on the show again dig in a little bit deeper, but but I love really the way that you talked about really the merging of not only the broadcast and AV worlds, but the IP worlds, and really the role that is that is constantly evolving. Right? There's always ways to continue educating, creating value for your clients, and I I appreciate you sharing some of that expertise with us today. Then then thank you. I re and I really appreciate you having us on. It's it's it's yep. I I can go on forever, but we don't want we don't Look, we'll we'll let you talk as long as you want to. But but Kevin Henneman president over at KH integration, Kevin, thanks so much for coming on the show today. Thank you, Ben. Have a great day. And thank you to our viewers for tuning in today. Be sure to watch next time.