The Secrets to Building Your Power Network: Know Your Strengths, Nurture Your Relationships, and Give Without Expectation

What three words of wisdom are the words that reground you when you need it? Be heart centered. Just getting back in my heart. That's that's I have to remind myself to do that where we can get to cerebral. You and I know that. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Purpose Pivot. How dynamic leaders lead into intuition and vulnerability. So today I have such a special guest, and I know I say this a lot because I'm so blessed that I have so many people in my life. But Kelly Hoey is a different kind of special. I think one time my husband asked her, like, what's your relationship with Melissa? And she said, friend, rabbi, mentor. I mean, all the things. So I'm so excited to have you on today, Kelly. And, you know, you never know who the universe is going to bring you and how life's going to bring, you know, great people into your life. And I think you are also a testament of that. Having found me via Twitter over a decade ago, I think we said twenty ten, when you were kind of leading things from a community standpoint at eighty five Broad. So, Kelly, thank you so much for being on with me. We're also going to dig into how you are an amazing author of the book Build Your Dream Network, which we're going to dig into and dovetails into the book that I just wrote. So Kelly, thanks for being here. Oh, Melissa, thank you for being part of my life. You and I have been on some roller coaster adventures together. The universe brings the right people into your life at the right time. I'm to say the journeys and transitions and pivots from high octane careers on Wall Street through to entrepreneurship, even in that, the reinvention. I'm glad you're in my life. I'm glad Twitter brought us together. Absolutely. And I think we'll always be high octane. But what we're going to talk about today is how we do that in a healthy way. Because if it's in your DNA, it's going to happen. But speaking of which, you know, you had a couple of interesting career pivots. You know, you started, you know, as a lawyer and then, you know, really building communities. You're part of an investment fund at a point. And then, you know, you really took off in a new chapter when you launched your book, Build Your Dream Network, Forging Powerful Relationships in a Hyperconnected World. And really, I think, made your footprint of being a networking strategist. So tell us a little bit about that evolution and those pivots you've made. Yeah. Started my career as a lawyer. And, you know, some people might think, oh god, what does law you know, lawyers have to do with building relationships? But it is really a relationship game. It's not a billboards and chase ambulances, the way I was brought up to build lifelong relationships and start those early because by the time you get sort of the lockstep model up to partner, hopefully you've brought those relationships along with you to make that happen. So that's kind of my foundation. And then when I figured that I didn't want to practise law anymore, there was the whole thing of, Okay, I've got a great deep relationship. I've got great deep networks. But they're not in areas that are going to allow my wings to expand. I wanted to make a career change, a transition from lawyer into management. That intentionality, those kinds of things. Once I had diversified my network, Melissa, it was really clear to me that that had to be a lifelong practice. I think you are also a mirror image of that because you also have made these tremendous career changes, but you still keep this light touch on past networks, on relationships that have, wasn't like, okay, I've done that, you know, those are over. Okay. You might not see them as much, but those people show up. Know, it might be that- This is why it was so important that you were part of chapter six that talks about this, because I think people hold on so tight to the network they have today, not recognizing that as they're evolving, the networks that they have or the way in which they intersect with the networks they have also evolved because you're different life stages, different needs, different interests, and so are the people you're interacting with. Right, and the person who may have been really great advice when you were figuring out your college major. The person who has really good advice on navigating, I don't know, a marriage proposal, a business sale, whether or not to have a baby, might not be the person who's looking at you saying, what are you doing? Melissa, you've got a great career on Wall Street. What the heck are you doing? Why are you giving up that security? Why are you giving up that knowing? Why are you giving up that credibility? The person who says, Keep pushing. Because some of it's their own fears, and you've got to navigate all of the stuff that's going on in their head. Yeah. No, absolutely. So it's so much to consider. That we're going to have a surprise guest. I'm just going to acknowledge that. You know what? You can hear Bentley can hear my voice. Bentley can hear my voice. Going acknowledge that all these shows are also going to drive myself crazy. But yes, but we may make I don't even know where the side is at. We may make appearances from now and again, and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna let that be acknowledged. You know what? That's like, that is one of the upsides, and I love this very human moment. That's like one of the upsides of twenty twenty. We could just drop the performative perfection. Kids were going to run-in, crisis were going to happen, there'd be a pot on the stove boiling over, you're just like, Just hold that shareholders, I've got to prevent a fire. Things just happen. And that's the beauty, I want say, being human. And maybe this digital age of everything we're doing, we've to remember connection. This is what makes change and transitions, and more importantly than anything else, relationships or well-being. They are essential for our mental and our physical health. Absolutely. And you talk about that. So that's a nice tip because I'm going to read, I extracted a little bit of a quote that's in the book that came from you, right? And you quoted somebody else. This is how science plays out. If you have big aspirations, whether you're an entrepreneur, a lawyer, rising in the ranks of management, educator, or seeking to succeed in a creative industry, studies show that women who achieve more of what they are seeking in comparison to their equally talented and ambitious peers are those who prioritize networking with other women or individuals of similar interest. And so, you know, let's talk a little bit about that, you know. And again, when I wrote this chapter in my book, chapter six about the power of community, I wanted to make sure it wasn't the things everybody already heard or or at all came across across cliche, which is why it was so great I got to talk to you because you've deeply studied this. So can you break down what I just shared a little bit further to the audience, and then we're going to dig in deeper from that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, was a really interesting part of some research I was asked to comment on in twenty nineteen, early twenty twenty. And it showed that it was sort of been a line of studies, I then realized, that showed in an environment where everyone had the same credentials. Everyone had a clear outcome they were pursuing. We all set goals, whether that's get more exercise, or it's to get a promotion, or to land funding for your startup. And it showed, in this environment, where everyone, okay, ambition is at the same level. Drive to succeed is at the same level. Level. What you're bringing in, your qualifications are equal. The women who networked, like the men who performed well, in terms of reaching a goal, did not do as well as the women who networked with other women. And it was two kind of things. One is, who is your inner circle? Who is your tribe? Yeah. And it hits the point you said before, Melissa, which was, you know, our networks change, and the person that was really great to advise you on motherhood might not be the one to talk to about entrepreneurship. You know, we have to think about why do we go to people? If someone is strong in your emotional support squad, might not be the person who you need to say, I hate my boss and I want to quit my job. They might not give you the critical advice. You might need the person who says, suck it up, buttercup. This is what you gotta do. Well, this is the thing. This is the thing. And I want you to keep keep talking. But, like, sometimes you do need those those, like, your amp me up friends. Right? They're just gonna be like they're just gonna give you all the stuff all the time because that's what you need in the moment. And then sometimes, yeah, you need those who are gonna keep you grounded and keep it real and give you something else. And I think also, you know, from your own personal point of view, who's modeling what you wish to aspire to in those arenas? That's important too because then the advice they give probably will be more aligned to helping on the path which you wanna follow. Right. Like, how have you navigated this? What would you do in this scenario? You know, like, those kind of people. And but I think it's sitting back in our own, anxieties, our own ambitions, our own, what we're going through, and say, what is it that I need right now? I need someone to pour me a glass of wine and tell me I'm fabulous. Or I need someone to give me the hard truths. What is it I need? Now, who is the right person in my network to go to? And what it shows in the studies is women who do that with other women. And part of that, Melissa, is I truly believe, like, we've gotta talk to people who navigate the world that look like us. Full stop. You know? Like, that's because you have a lot more of the understanding of some of the other background challenges, right? And like right, I talk about in chapter two, like, perimenopause and menopause is one bucket of that, right? Like, you're just going to have a different understanding in that life stage if you're talking to another woman who's going through a similar thing in that life stage or, you know, other things that are just more women specific. So I think it's really important. And I think, you know, it's a it's a balance between that and then figuring out the right male champions too. Right? So you do have a balance of both. Oh, absolutely need male allies. You know, absolutely need men who are going to say, Yes, this person you have to deal with is this way. Here's ways I can help and here's what you're going to do to hold yourself out in a stronger way. Because we make snap judgments. We make assumptions. I had a conversation just the other night, Melissa, and I was chatting with a woman who runs a science arts creative day camp for kids. I was asking her about it. And she said to me, well, how old are your children? And I'm like, I don't have any. She's like, well, why are you interested in what I do? I'm like, oh, it's just too confusing for work. Oh, I see. You do something with kids. I don't have kids. I'm not interested. Like, you know, we're just No. Yeah. You're trying to get at something else in the conversation, you know, for sure. But I think it's a balance. It's a balance of finding those right groups of allies for the different life stages, forging these powerful women, relationships with women groups, because they're gonna have a certain empathetic point of view to different life stages that I think are relevant to those conversations that you're going through your own transitions through those life stages. And you have a lot of conversations, so I'm just gonna hold it up because I should have done that in the beginning. I have the thing because why not? We've Everybody needs to get a copy. This is Build Your Dream Network by Kelly Hoey, who I adore. Create powerful connections that will fuel your career success. And, you know, in this, you did a lot of research too, and you have a lot of conversations and you speak on stage all over the world. What are some of the things you've learned about what exactly holds people back from really stepping into some of the advice that you're giving? Giving? Networking has got just such a dirty word. It does. It is a dirty little word sometimes. Right. What's really funny is, back to the research for a second, these women who were more successful, not only did they sort of have clarity on the types of other women they needed to connect with in terms of their inner circle, so to speak, their tribe, they also continuously prioritize building relationships. And that is That's probably a better word, building relationships. Yeah. But we can get all Yes, yes. All nuances and oh, capital versus this and all the rest of this kind of stuff. But it was funny. The women who didn't do as well because they networked like the men, they showed up when they needed to, you know, to build you know, they showed up when they needed to, not continuously. And I'm like, well, that's the networking that gives networking the bad name. When you show up only when you need something, if you show up thinking it's a chore, as opposed to there's an interesting speaker, there's a shared interest group, something. So why, in terms of taking the advice, I think women we're often, because of societal expectations and norms, we're thrust into particular roles. Just as I think men are. And I'm thinking from a Western and obviously very white perspective. But I think there's societal expectations and norms that we can default into, in terms of what's expected. I think there's a scarcity mindset that we, as women, like, you know, oh, good. One woman's on the board. That's all there is. Like, no one has ever said that about men. Like, why why have we sort of drunk that poison and continue to drink it? Right? And, you know, people often talk about women taking back their power. It's like, we have a whole lot of influence. It's just choosing to exercise it. And I think there is a lot of reasons why keeping women in roles that they have for the past millennia, being the primary caregivers, doing what we have to do, benefits a lot of people. And it's hard to step out of that. And then I think, like I said, I think some women and some people, you know, continue to drink the poison. Like, other people didn't do this for me. You know, I had to walk through snow to get to school. You should have to walk through you know, that kind of thing. I'm like, who does that hurt? That hurts you. Yeah. Like, I've met women who have been remarkably successful in their careers, but there's been something they've wanted that has just been elusive. Or, you know, from the outside when I said remarkably successful by all appearances. The homes, the travel, the keynotes, the invitations. But the thing they've wanted has been elusive. I'm like, yeah. When I look at your network, there's not a whole Well, is where intentionality. The word you used earlier, intentionality is critical, right? And to really sit and think, and I think about when I launched LionSK, which is when we first met, and I was trying to, you know, I was, I did build it. When I was in build mode, asked you to be on my advisory board. And I remember you asking me why, what role do you think I would have? And I remember you helping me fill out what the other people should be, but it was all based in intentionality. And it was also based in me doing the homework of what are my strengths? What are my strengths and what are my weaknesses? Right? And then I'm gonna fill in the weaknesses just due to lack of exposure, experience, whatever it is with others. And then this way, I was very intentional about how I build the board, which was essentially like a very close network of mine. And then the other thing that I think you're saying in addition to intentionality is, it's a prosody. Like, it is a give and take, you know? And we can climb and lift along the way in different avenues. You might be more senior to me in one arena, but I might be further along in another. And so how are we continuing to help each other along each one's individual journey? Well, exactly. I think this is digital age we live in, there's a complete flattening of hierarchy. And you don't know where your next opportunity is gonna come from. And I'm just gonna chime in on that. Because I want you to keep going on intentionality and reciprocity. But, like, I was at a at an event with Footwear News and Martha Stewart was speaking. And she said she's like, I always surround myself with younger people because that's how she stays on the pulse of things. Right? That's how she's understanding, like, what's new and fresh and next. And, yes, they all, I'm sure, are really respectful of the career she's had in her seniority, but there's, like, a flattened organization, you know, through social media and all of this. If you're if you're savvy enough to embrace that, I mean, you can gain so much. Oh, absolutely. I had a wonderful conversation with a woman last night. I have no idea how old Fran is, met because of an art class, and because I am not part of her community, I'm not one of her children. We can have conversations that, as she said to me last night, I can talk to you about things that I can't talk to my friends, my neighbours, those at the synagogue about, because, you know, they're going to give me, you know, kind of, I think she's probably gonna tell me, you know, little old lady on the upper east side answers. And Fran doesn't want those answers. She wants she wants other things. She needs Pelly there to help her. She needs nonjudgmental or just me being New Yorker telling her, think it's all a of crap. But, anyway, you know, you mentioned the intentionality. You are like again, I'm gonna hold you up like the poster child. You're like, what is it that I bring to the table? What is it that I contribute? But what am I missing? Because other people aren't going to point out your blind spots. I mean, unless it's in a performance review, you need to do that and sort of say, okay, where's my blind spots? If I'm only getting advice from the dudes as I'm crawling, climbing up the corporate ladder, what am I missing out? Right? If I'm only getting advice from all my friends who are in a different industry, in a different sector, choosing a different life path, well, what is not coming into my inputs that I can use to make better decisions? In terms of reciprocity and generosity in this day and age, Melissa, when everybody is so busy, and I always, you know, kinda crinkle when people say, oh, you made an introduction for me. Let me make one for you. And I'm like, no, no. I might not need that. I think that just being a decent human, being considerate, being generous, being, you know, I'm gonna say the gratitude for when people do do things for you, it'll all come back at the right time in terms of really that reciprocity of networking as opposed to thinking about transactionally, you know, you made an intro, I need an intro, you know, that kind of thing. Right. Yeah. I agree. And and I also think, you know, use your asks wisely, right? There's plenty of people in my world that have I've orbited around for years now, and I've never asked them of anything. I've admired them. I cheer them on, But I don't have a genuine ask. So, in my mind, I'm like very intentional. When it's right, and it makes sense, I will ask. And they will and here's the other thing of the research, Melissa, is that often we hesitate to ask, thinking we might impose. And that's when I'm sort of like, well, think what's going on in the person's life. If it's the middle of the summer vacation, maybe sending them an email with a big request, not good timing. But we forget how good it feels to help someone else. By not asking sometimes, we're depriving the other person of all that rush of endorphins and feeling like they've been the mentor helper and the thing they've wanted to do. So sometimes you got to make that ask. It is true. It is true. I've I have had once in a while somebody say to me, how come you didn't ask me? You know? And so I'm like, okay, well, noted. I will next time. So don't worry about that one. Well, let's go reflect that to you, right? Because, you know, you talk about making the choice of diversifying networks, and, you know, that's been a critical step in your own life's transformation and now educating others and to being able to do that. Sometimes when we're the champion of something, we're not always the best at recognizing it for my for yourself. And I one of the things I also write about in the book is you really shared that it was your network that you surrounded yourself with that saw your greater potential. Because once in a while, we can't always see that in ourselves, right? We get a little blind to just being in the thick of it and everything. So how has the network you've created really helped you at those pivotal moments? Yeah, sometimes we're just too close. Or sometimes the thing you do so naturally, you know, and someone points it out and you're like, what do you mean? Like, you're an idiot. Like, doesn't everyone do it this way? I mean, I literally had that conversation with someone, which was my boss at the time. And he said, you need to tell people what you do. And I looked at him like he was an alien. He said, you network and build relationships and you analyze it in a different way. You need to tell people what you do. And I told him it was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. And then when I wrote Build Your Dream Network ten years later, he is the first acknowledgment in the back of the book because I had to eat crow on this. I think a great thing to ask your network, people talk about building their personal brand. Your brand is what your network tells you what it is. So what are they seeking from you? What are they coming back to you all the time for? I mean, if my network was coming back to me all the time for legal advice, your network was coming back to you all the time for advice on, I don't know, bond sales or something, we'd be like, Woah, what's wrong with my LinkedIn profile? Where's the disconnect here? This is what happened to me when I transitioned from Wall Street to become the pop up queen. I was so good at it that as I transitioned into bigger, you know, that I was like, because that's like that's like one that's like one fraction of all that I am, but I had to I had to really think about that because Yeah. What are you networking? It's like it's like out of it's like, you know, you're so good at it, which is the good part, but then there's a challenge of you were so good at it, you gotta redo it again. I agree. It's almost like doing I say, think listen to your network. Like, the strength the biggest thing you can do and the strongest thing to do when you're networking is to listen. And that is whether you are listening in terms of observing with what are people sharing, talking about, posting, you know, what's in their newsletter, like what is it that they care about. But also, listening in terms of what is coming into you and saying, Okay, this is what they're seeing. How do I shift this? How do I change this perception? Or what am I ignoring in it? And I think this is where too, a diversified network. Cause all of a sudden you could say, Ah, you know, is this my mom, is this my sister, is this my best friend? And they say I'm great at this. Well, if all of a sudden someone who's twenty years your junior who you worked on a community project with says the same thing, now you gotta sit up and listen a little bit. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that is true. You need those diverse perspectives for sure. One of the things that we've talked about as well in your we're both older than we were when we first met in twenty ten. How has your point of view on well-being shifted? And, you know, I think about that from an individual level, but also how that dovetails into the conversation we are having about building networks. Well, I mean, like I said, the the earlier, though, the research is very clear in terms of the importance of relationships for mental and physical health. It's it's very clear evidence on that. In my own life, you know, you sort of think you can do all the right things for years, and then life still, know, throws you a curveball. Hello, menopause. Right? Like, you know, that- I mean, we've had many conversations about what are the right moisture wicking pajamas we need to be wearing at this point in our life? Yeah, back to women sharing their stories, which is I think the most important thing, because the way I look at menopause and that journey, it's kind of like the other dirty word, COVID. Everyone's symptoms and outcomes and experience, well, they're similar, they're not exactly the same. And, you know, like you said, you can do all the right things and then life throws you a curveball. So, you know, where I've gotten to at this point is like being and I know this is going to resonate with you. You got to listen to your body. Yeah. You've got to listen. Am I craving- I'm speaking to you if you're willing to Why am I having this pain? What is it related to? Why am I craving this? Why is my energy level this way? You've got to listen to that and make adjustments. And be gentle on yourself because I think we're still as ambitious and driven as we were when we first met Melissa, but all of a sudden it's like, Yeah, I need a little extra sleep and wear my Korean facial masks. Exactly. Mean, I just had a great trip to Tokyo and I stocked up on those masks, let me tell you. Not Korean, but like Japanese, but yeah, no. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Oh, that's what I was gonna say since we're talking wellness, the Yuka app, Y U K A, it is my- Oh yes. Oh my God, I love that app. So tell me- That could be a rapid fire. What's the one must app that you have? Yuka app. Everybody heard that, Kelly Hoey. Yuka, yeah. Because it's again, you think, what do you know now about your wellness? I'm like, I think about the inputs. I've always thought less about it before. I thought less about pesticides. I thought less about whether it was organic or inorganic. I thought less about what are the ingredients in those beauty products. And now, at this point in my life, I'm like, hold on baby. Let's see what and we'll get to that with books. Cause yeah, there's one of my favorite. Yeah, I want to hear. Yes, some rapid fire coming up. But well, you you also touched upon backing into well, wellness and well-being, especially mental wellness. And networks, right? I mean, there is, whether it's helping somebody else, whether it's celebrating, I mean, those are those all release endorphins. Right? And there's a positive energy when even you see somebody eye to eye and you make that contact, it's all additive to our well-being. Oh, absolutely. When I think about overall well-being in terms of, for me, yes, yes it is diet. Yes it is movement. Human contact. Like even just talking to your barista, like people, Oh, don't talk to strangers. Actually, social science shows this is good for your well-being. So say hello, make eye contact. You see someone who's got a great hairstyle, compliment them on it. Know, like those little bits of human contact is superficial. The friend you haven't seen, you think of them, send them a note. All that helps with your well-being. Like, send the birthday card, acknowledge those milestone moments. If you do nothing else, that will maintain connections and contribute to your well-being. And then I think the other thing is, you you've to be a lifelong learner. That curiosity muscle, you mentioned Martha Stewart before. Yes, it keeps her relevant. I think she's just got a massively curious mind. What else can I know? What else is going on? Because otherwise she could be happy in her comfy garden, drinking her wine with Snoop She's done pretty well for herself for sure. Drinking wine with Snoop Dogg. I mean, I could think worse things anyway. Well, that was going to be one of my questions. It's like, would you tell your younger self about well-being knowing what you know today? Might be like, fine Snoop Dogg. Don't know. But like, what would you tell your younger self knowing now, right? If you thought back to your twenties or, you know, what would you tell yourself? The greatest relationship you have is with yourself. So prioritize that. It's so true. And in the book, I have a section called the Community of Meat, and it's this statement and it's other contributors that talked about that. And it's an interesting thing too, because when you look at children, they have this amazing ability to cohabitate in a room, but also self play. And it is very healthy. And I think we forget that sometimes. And we forget the meaning of community of me, which is as important, if not more sometimes than other networks and communities that you build and you're a part of. And it also sometimes could remind ourselves, like, we can be the harshest to ourselves, and you would never say that to a friend the way we self talk sometimes. Would never. I would never be like, Kelly, your hair is disaster today. Like, would never say that to you. It's not, by the way. Looks great. But do you know what I mean? Sometimes we need people to say those things. But I think you're absolutely we are our harshest critics. In terms of the way we carve up our day or our time, we will deprive ourselves. Or we won't say, you know what, what is it that I actually need? Am I the type of person who only needs? I worked with someone who, between kids, her job, her husband, know, at full life. She said, you know what, I actually am a person who doesn't need a lot of me time. That being said, as someone who has commuted into the city for work. She took the bus in. She took a longer commute into work versus the train because she's like, I can get on the bus. I can read a book. That, you know, the extra ten minutes, the not having to navigate Penn Station that way, that was her me time. Having that five days a week, that was what she needed. And I'm like, you know what? We need to do that. So what is it that you need? And then you know what? That's got to be sacred. That's got to be sacred. It's that decompression time. And we have so much coming in at us. And yes, when you're reading, it's still coming in, but it's at a slower pace. But it's when we find those times that the most amazing ideas emerge, too. Right. Right. What fills your cup? Right, what fills your cup? There's another woman I met who's the CFO for a NASDAQ listed tech company, and she's one of these people who needs sleep. So what's the other part is, when you think about what is it that you need? A, being able to honor that for yourself, and getting other people to help you honor it. So back to this woman, sleep is so important, in terms of her functioning in her role and in her life. Literally, her husband has the alarm. And he will see her working too hard, you know? And he's like, your bath is poured. We're closing this down. Like, he literally puts his wife I mean, I'm gonna have my husband speak to her husband because that's incredible. But that is something I would have told my younger self. I was like, sleep's important. When you're younger, just carry on, party on, drink water. Yeah. But it's like, know? Well, right, like, some of us can power through with very little sleep at times, but this, I guess this woman just completely doesn't function. And so she recognizes this, but she has, you know, that immediate, you know, nuclear family support group who's like, no, no. We're not gonna, like, badger you the next day and go, Mom, you didn't get enough sleep. It's like, No. We're going put you to bed, Mom. I love that. I love that. I love it. I love it. All right. Well, we're at that time we're going to do the rapid fire. And I, you you already told us the app, Yuca. Yuca, right? Yeah. But I'm going to have some rapid fire for the audience. And here we go. So the first and this being an author, I can't wait to hear what you share. What are if someone were to look at your bookshelf, what are the three must reads they would find? Catherine Graham's Personal History. I think that memoir is extraordinary. You'll find a lot of books by Jeanette Winterston, an incredible British author, and my new favorite, William Lee's book Eat to Beat Disease. That is my bible these Yes, she's told me that one and it's so Oh, the commonalities across healthcare things. So you can make lifestyle changes and not lifestyle changes that involve expensive, unproven supplements and all sorts of nonsense. This is like normal, well studied, healthy food. Okay. Question number two. What three words of wisdom that are the words that reground you when you need it? Be heart centered. Just getting back in my heart. That's that's I have to remind myself to do that where we can get too cerebral. You and I both feel I love that. So, like, just give us an exam You have a moment where you feel disconnected and then it regrounds you. Yeah. Like, I think about things where our our brain can go off in all sorts of disaster scenarios. It's just like, if I can ground myself back in my heart, you know, this radiates, I want to say, this radiates further. This produces, you know, I want to say, greater connection than this. And so I'm like, that's just, the heart sends more signals to the brain than the brain does to the heart. There's all sorts of interesting research and studies being done on it. And I'm like, just, okay, my brain is going off in crazy town. Let's get back to the heart. Back to the heart. I love that. That's your mantra. Okay. So you have apps, you have books, you have words of wisdom. Third question, what are your must listen to podcasts? And I'm going to twist this in terms of shaping your perspective of integrating well-being into your life. Well things, I knew you were going to ask this question so I really thought about what are the things I listen to to maintain my well-being? So this is my combination of West Coast woo woo where I grew up and the science and the practicalities and the curiosity of where I am today. So Pam Gregory, an astrologer, I need my Pam. What she's seeing, the trends, the signs and being able to put things in that bigger perspective, I think is essential for our well-being. We may not feel well today. We may be stressed today, but we can make choices. And that'll make a different tomorrow. The Hidden Brain podcast. Love the conversations on that one. A lot of interesting authors and others that the host speaks to on a range of things from relationships to, you know, why we make the choices we do. And then I'm very much a fan of the podcasts on the BBC. Now some of those are history podcasts, so I can really just get my mind off. Love it. Well, you know what? What helps your well-being? Caught in the news cycle and the negativity is not good for my well-being. And I've recognized this. But they also have one podcast, which I absolutely love, or I'm going mention two of them, Just One Thing, a fantastic podcast, because it's like, what's one tiny little lifestyle change? Like when I think when your book comes out, everyone doesn't have to do everything at once. You know what? Try one of Melissa's suggestions. Right? Give that a whirl, then take another. So this podcast is like, okay, could you add beets to your diet? Could you take a ten second cold shower? Like, Just little things with real human examples that you're like, Oh, one little difference may be that pivotal change in my life. Then there's the music and meditation podcast. They typically have a really great guest who has a brief conversation, and then they do a meditation together. And it's it's quite lovely. And that. And all with British accents, which really makes, you know, I have I have you know, I have an dynamic relationship with that because I will for sure start speaking in one after I listen to those podcasts. Well, as I like to joke as I like to jokingly say, and this is part of my well-being. You know, if the world's going to hell in a handbasket, hearing it in a British accent just sounds better. Yeah. I love it. I love it. Exactly. It sounds more musical. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that with us, Kelly. I could go on and on, which just means you'll have to come on for another episode. But Perfect. I appreciate you as my friend for so many years. You know, we can we can kind of get down in it together. You inspire me, all the things. So again, this is networking strategist and author, bestselling author, like you need to get her book if you have and build your dream network. She has so many little nuggets of of of advice that you could put into action, and appreciate you taking the time with us today. I have been delighted to be here, Melissa. Thank you.