Housing Affordability: Catalytic Development and Stewardship in Business

Hello. Welcome to Tuesday's more I'm Adam Morrisy. I'm thrilled to be joined by one of my good friends, Brandon Cleveland, Brandon is a multidisciplinary leader who leads a Birmingham, Alabama based nonprofit as well as a private developer investor, dynamic speaker, and much, much more Brandon. Thanks for coming on the show today, man. Yeah, Adam. Thank you for having me. Excited to be with you today and excited for the conversation. So, it's a good day. Yeah. Totally, man. I I'm really excited about it too. You know, on the, development side. I've heard you coined a term catalytic development. You know, and it's a little bit different than what I seen and and heard from my own time in real estate and other developers. I've met with and spoke with. Can you talk a little bit about what you mean when you say catalytic development? Yeah. You know, from a a chemistry standpoint, it's it's it's a it's a science name. Catalyst, catalytic. And when you define that, term, it speaks to the fact that acceleration, you know, a substance that is catalytic is a substance that accelerates the process. Something of a agitator as well, when you're building or making things. And so when you think about catalytic development, It's a development. There's a agitation to the economy in a positive way. Agitation to development in a community in a positive way. And it I would I would look at it from the lens of if I compound my results, I should be able to accelerate the impact. Right? And so, you know, when you think about calorie development, we should be thinking about how can we accelerate the work we're doing? How can we compound our impact? And how can we consistently do this over a duration of time? And I know compound, catalyst, speed, agitation. These are science things, but you know, they apply to the the process of developing cities and communities. Yep. It's interesting. Yeah. You know, you think so often people just think about building a building and building, a community, you know. But sometimes that word community gets thrown down and they're really just talking about building houses in the structure of what we know as a neighborhood without really an emphasis on the impact these developments could have talk a little bit about what you're working on at Daniel Pain Legacy Village. Yeah. Oh, man. That's a good comment. When I think about that, One Daniel Pain, Legacy Village Foundation, with a five zero one c three arm of the ninth episcopal district for the African Methodist episcopal Church. And so what that looks like in application is where the firewall from what goes on, on Sundays or do the week with the church to having community impact on a day to day basis. We're housed inside our probably held, sensor it's a sixty five thousand plus square foot facility that sits on eighteen acres, and we execute our mission, through this facility and through this site. And our mission's simple. It's to foster community growth through education, economics, technology, and wellness And so fostering community growth, that's that key piece. One of the reasons we doubled down or I doubled down as an executive on catalytic de la development. Because if I want growth as fast as I can get it, but I want it to be in a positive impact. And so when you make comments or you just shared that statement, which I really love is, you know, we talk about community, but it's kinda like a word to just throw down and not really impacting, you know, the actualization of developing communities. We also are the owners of a acreage site of over a hundred and forty six acres. And we've been in possession of that land, for some time now. Several decades that we received when we moved to our current site. And I give background, you know, when asking that question about community, you know, we're starting with our plasma. You know, so we have in rows with community leaders, with other profit organizations, with for profit entities, with municipal partners. These are are all the precursors necessary series, and I believe required if you're gonna do a development, when you're taking a holistic approach because what you don't wanna do, what we often see is maybe a comprehensive plan comes down for a community or area or city. And then individuals can come to or get feedback. But there's gonna be, you know, a barrier there if what the designers and the people come and speak on for an hour. You need a little more time, to spend with those residents and with those individuals that live in that environment, because what comes out of that is a deeper understanding and better insight on what this area can house. And so a quick example is when a development occurs in a community, the fact that it might not have sidewalks. Right? That's not expensive. You know, I've had the conversations with builders and architects, That's not an expensive feature to add. It it does have some costs, but it's not to the detriment of the development And so for instance, if we built, a community and we put twenty homes in an area or fifty homes in an area, but there's no sidewalks. What we're saying is that we don't want the neighbors to walk back and forth to each other's homes. Way of physical, avenues car for them to do so. Because if you and I have to walk in the street to get to each other's home, likely not to go. Although we want to, you know, we still may make that, but It just decreases the the likelihood of the consistency of community happening in a area when it's built in that manner. Yeah. What I hear you saying is, you know, how you might do things differently when you have a purpose behind why you're doing them. You know, if you were a private developer, you know, just solely looking to build homes and sell them for a particular amount, to individual families, it might not be necessary to have sidewalks. It might not. But when you're when you're talk about your vision for the Daniel Daniel Pain Lexee Village project and how that drives, you know, the importance of having features like sidewalks. Yes. So the the site that we're owners of, it we've had several iterations over the past ten years, and and so I came into the organization in leadership, roughly two years ago, and we began to recast a vision on what, the environment I. E. The community, the county, the city that we're in. Where are some things that, you know, the, social, economic pressures are crying out for. And so one of the things we've continued to hear is housing. It is a macroeconomic issue across the country. With the shortages of housing being available and not only housing being available, but affordable housing. And so we've heard that term affordable housing, but there's pathways to get what we call, economic housing, into places such as Birmingham, Alabama. And so when we think about that and hearing that, we envision a place where we can, multiply a number of multi family homes on that site. When we think about a number, specifically, we're thinking somewhere between forty eight to fifty two, single family homes, We're also thinking about town, home style, single, multi family units. They have opportunity for, If not originally, sold, you can pivot into that. And so what we know is required to helpful communities rooftops. You know, communities that don't have enough rooftops often also are negatively impacted economically because for profit entities, respectfully, are looking for places where they can get the rooftops because that means patrons or customers for their products or their services or their locations. And so there there ends up being this disparity you know, for economic assistance from the for profit community when there isn't enough rooftops to sustain it, and then it begins to feel intentional. But that's not the case. And so when we envision having rooftops first, that increases the footfall for the site, We do want to have sidewalks. We do want green space. Because we know steady show just temperature, just the management of a home, there's more forestry, you know, when there's just trees and shade and things occurs of that nature, naturally around a home, it has a reduction in the low, you know, even to heat and cool it. And so when you're thinking about being able to walk from neighbor to neighbor's house, being able to have some green space, you know, have a sufficient amount of rooftops. It makes the ask for a for profit entity or a larger box entity to come into a site. It makes that ass easier. You know, it doesn't seem like a favor is being done. I think when we're looking at development, especially catalytic development, whether it's, community, economic, or social. We gotta start creating an environment or a situation that is advantageous for both parties participating, both the residents and the entities that come, to the site. You bring up an interesting point about for profit site selection. You know, sometimes without enough density, there can be a kind of like a negative, cycle that happens is like there isn't enough density to get for profit entities to build, you know, restaurants, stores, businesses, etcetera, which impacts, you know, the availability of food in some cases, it can impact employment opportunities, and then it can impact home values. So when you say catalytic, you know, it lights a spark to say, hey, there's more density going in to these places, and it can bring entertainment options, employment options. And then, you know, there's stats like, you know, if a Starbucks comes into a neighborhood or near a neighborhood, home values go up. So when you're thinking about, development for community change in transformation, densities, definitely a huge factor. So I really appreciate you painting that picture. How how does it change the development? Like you mentioned, the ninth district of the Afghan Methodist of Church. How does it impact the development when you have a clear picture of who you're serving? With a particular project. Great question. It, one, it accelerates it. And that's why I continue to use those scientific terms because that's what we want. We wanna get there as fast as we can, as strong as we can, take as many people as we can with us going there. What it also does, it builds trust, with the multiple partners that are gonna be requiring that are necessary for success. And so when you have a clear vision, it it helps it be translated throughout the mounds and the departments and the businesses and the entities that hop on board, because they can see how that works. The African methods of Pispo Church itself is the oldest African American Christian organization in the United States. Over two hundred years old. And so, you know, very long history of serving the community. Low and moderate communities, marginalized communities. People in need, people that have that that may lack resources, through various seasons of their life. And so when you think about cast and vision, we want the vision as clear as you can get it, because there's always gonna be issue. There's hundreds of books, if not thousands of books that give us historical facts on the, I'll say the burden, or the, load management that it requires to get a catalytic development or a catalytic change to occur in a community city, county, or country. And so the clearer division, the more digestible it is to those who have to participate, who are essential for the success of it. Yeah. I got a quote for you. Here in a second. The quote was if you wanna build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. Who is they buy? Alright. So it's a French guy. So Okay. Antoine Antoine Desant expiry. So I'm, that's my best guess. I'll I'll link to that in the show notes, but, like, apologies. French, people everywhere, provide pronunciation. You know, what I think so cool about what you're doing, you mentioned this site you're building is, on a school site, And also on the side of a senior sa center. I know I've told you this before, but I I really love this, the concept of blue zones. Blue zones. They it was a resource, group led by a guy named Dan Duetner, and they identified these, what they call blue zones or places where people have an abnormally high likelihood of living to a healthy one hundred. And all the ingredients you're building in your de your development are the ingredients and blues on some of them are, a sense of community. Others are an emphasis on movement. So, like, the programs you host at the centers in addition to the sidewalks and recreation places, a shared sense of purpose. So when you talk about, you know, serving a particular group within a certain particular place who share an identity, That's a very powerful thing to give us purpose and longevity. The multigenerational factor. And then the the emphasis on holistic health and wellness. Yes. Yes. That's good. I appreciate you pulling that out because, Adam, one of the things history has shown us, ink communities around the world, like the blue zones, when we're having this intergenerational activity with the children and the seniors. It it bridges this gap of information. You know, before we were great writers in the world, we were better orators. And so some of the things that, you know, citizens and people in community They do a better job in communicating verbally, that story or that situation and what that history was, because what translates to paper oftentimes doesn't give the context. And so that's something to think about. And we know that studies show that our seniors live longer when they interact with the youth. And we see that when we take this type of process, What we're doing and what we're saying is that we want to create an environment where our French citizens, those who may be lacking or those who may be to be marginalized, getting resources and building relationships with people who have the wherewithal or have the capacity, whether socially or economically to help them. And we also are saying that our children in our seniors, they're getting the interaction that they need because, you know, they say a little yeast arise the bread. Well, if we take you an eye, if we're the yeast, you'll we you only need a few of us, you know, to rise to bread in a community children and, our seniors are those who may not have the necessary, again, resources or relationships. And then into that situation, we begin to enter line. And it's my hope and desire, isn't the executive to interlock future developments, future relationships, so it can have a multi generational effect. Because to your point about blue zones, that's what we see. We we see that it has a multi generational effect. In the lifestyle begins to transition it to those who are younger, and I'll limit it out. Yeah. You know, something from our conversations in the past is you've used the word stewardship. How does stewardship play a a role in your life, your business, and the way you lead, and and and move around the world. Yeah. It makes me, not be possessive. I think what can happen with the vision on what we have seen with visions at times, whether, individual or a couple people, or community or city, having it particular approach and saying it is our vision to execute this is that you begin to harbor resources and relationships in order to see it accomplished in the best way you see. And so it makes us in my opinion, more abrasive income into resolutions to build, for the future. Institute, you know, it requires a level of humility to do it. If you if not humbling is, you know, you can be in a pocket of a have a humble day. Right? You know, it just it wasn't a good day. I have to humble myself. I didn't do well today. But humility, you know, takes a little more intention in walking out, that mindset and that muscle. And so in stewardship, you know, whether business, or personally, I have, you know, I strive to remind myself of, like, I have to. Hey, you know, And then I've mentioned to you in our conversation before, if you divide the average number of years, the individual lives, by the number of years on record we can track. It is a re it is really a speck. And then you begin to realize, you know what? I'm here to assist with something, which means that it came into my hands. I hold it in my hands. Then I pass it from my hands. And life continues to go on. And so I hope I did the best I could when I had the opportunity. So, that's what stewardship means, to me at the core of it. Yeah. I I'm sure with this, legacy Village project, a lot of people might, like, might since you're so active, might be like, hey, this is like, they might they may be even refer to it as branded project. And you'll be like, no no no no. This project is something I might be involved with, but actually has nothing to do with me. How does, stewart ship impact the time horizons on decision making for you. Yes. You know, you mentioned, you know, a couple of times, you know, wanted to do things quickly Yeah. But I imagine there might be another side of that. Yeah. Another speed there that it's considered. Yeah. Wow. That's a good I love it, Adam. It's I mean, that's where we have to activate the humility part. And that's where the stewardship mindset comes from. Because there has been, you know, comments of tones I've experienced that inefficient may say, oh, this is your project. No. You know, it's not exclusively me. Or it may be said, well, we don't want people to think it's just you. And I'm like, of course not. You know, I'm just a drum major for the band in this season, but that doesn't mean the band is not gonna keep beating a drum there after I come from the front lines. And to answer your question, it's a slower speed. Because in the spirit of stewardship, you begin to realize it does no good if I make the people or make the organizations. I love that culture just shared them out. Hey, let's not get caught up in the wood and building it. Let's get the hearts of the individuals participating because that's the message. That's gonna translate when you and I are not present in a project. It's not gonna be what Brandon said. It's gonna be we need to And that's what you wanna get in their hearts. Now it slows it down, and I think that's where, again, you begin to realize, hey, I am a steward that it's passing through my hands. But it also makes you more determined because, you know, this is not something everybody's gonna wanna do. This is not something everybody has the, the dexterity to participate in over a duration of days, weeks, months and years to see a culmination of it. And so if you can remember that, then you got a better chance. And in what I've seen in the eyes of the people and heard from their voices is they feel empowered, you know, when you say, Hey, I'm I'm you walking them through it, you know, you're you're getting them to feel empowered about it because you very well may need them to beat a drum on the day your hands are tired. And the last thing you wanna do is make people beat the drum when they don't want to because the moment they don't have to, they won't. Yeah. Yeah. A couple so I had a couple of speaking experiences recently that I wanna and and you I know you do a lot of speaking. And you yes. Speaking engagements coming up. So I'm curious what you think about this. So, the two speaking engagements were one I was doing some volunteering with some friends that, like, keep kids out of gangs, and some of them have, like, served time in prison. So we did this prison visit a couple like, two, like, last weekend or two weekends ago. About two hundred inmates. It was, like, all about inspiring hope and such at I had a chance to speak with these to these guys. And, I but it wasn't planned. My buddy who was the organizer said, Hey, do you have anything to say? And you know, thankfully, I I met some good friends the last couple months that, you know, just, you know, gave me some questions around, Hey, what's alive for you? And, in this moment, like, what are you feeling and just kinda communicating from the harp? And then I had another speaking event at a con like a home services conference, and it was, like, a presentation I knew I had. I've been preparing for weeks. And I, like, I nailed it in quotes. Like, everything went exactly as I I I, as I expected, but You know, I was thinking on the way home, I was like, you know, this idea of the question is, speaking for perfectionism versus speaking for impact. At the second speaking engagement, I said, Hey, I I I think I did really well, but could I have had more impact? So I'm curious, in your speaking, it experience enrolls how you think about that speaking for perfectionism versus speaking for impact. Yeah. Hey. Good. Don't question. I didn't realize there's Yeah. No. There's no question mark in there. It's a statement though to to respond to, it's interesting. You asked that because I the call, to your point, I do have some engagements coming up month. And I had a call with the panel, that's gonna be participating, and it's with the American Diabetes Association, and we're talking about community, we're talking about health, we're talking about disparities, and things of this nature. The, the ADA CEO is gonna be there at the summit that day. So it's it's gonna be a cool day. They asked, and they being one of the project managers from the ADA side, made the comment. Hey, what should we ask the crowd? Or what do you all think are some questions we can put out to the audience. And one of the things I well, this first thing I shared was we should ask them to share with us what they don't know. You know, share with us things they may wanna know that they feel like they don't know enough about. Because that's how we're gonna measure our impact when it's done. Like, were we able to provide some information to the audience they didn't have before they arrived. And were we able to give them insight to a feeling that they didn't have before they came or weren't expecting to have when they came to hear us talk and discuss these issues, relevant to the community. You begin, or I begin to measure my impact that way, because I have been in past seasons of I I want to be perfect in my delivery, in my description, in my communication. But as I continue to speak and continue to have, a call and reaction in my dialogue with the audience. I'm seeing that it is, again, I'm simply a voice for the moment, a voice for that day or that hour, and I'm called to stir them up. There is this proverbial phrase that speaks to deeper the waters of, a man or woman's heart, but it is, he or she that can draw out that information that is wise. And we're not wise because we know something where we get distinguished in wisdom because we're helping somebody who already know something. Come to remembrance of it or thereby recognize they already know it. They just needed somebody to prime their hearts. And so that's a real cool, that's a great question. That's a question. As I said, I'll had to think about, and it came up today. Because if we don't present something people don't know, or we don't, communicate it communicating a way that creates a positive feeling for them. We could be up there, dressed, you know, immaculate using all the best words, all the catchphrases, all the quotes, but the work the work is not about that. The work is about the impact, and so that's what we wanna do. Yeah. It's, I guess I had a couple weeks ago is, a management teacher and coach. Named Kim Scott, she wrote a book called RadicalKander, that, it's big in the management community. And, It's all about, you know, communicating compassionately and directly with people. It's more compassionate to be direct and honest with people than it is to be passive and sugar coat. But she was saying something about feedback, but I think it's also true in any form of communication. She said feedback is measured at the recipient's ear. And I think for a lot of this communication stuff, we think about, hey, how can we nail it? But what we really should be thinking about is how can we maximize impact at for the recipients. Yeah. So, Brandon, you're, obviously, a student. So I'd be curious, to hear any, you know, reading recommendations or council recommendations that have had an that you're either working on now or that I've had an impact on you in the past. Yep. I am, well, first book that comes immediately to mind. I've read several, Patrick, Lindsay books. The one that jumps out for me, is the, four obsessions of a extra ordinary executive. I really enjoyed that book just briefly. It it talks about an executive who was struggling as a CEO to lead their org one of the organization to the next level. And then after spending some time thinking about, you know, how do I do that? He came up with this list that was a short list that he kept with him or kept on his desk at all times, and he always referred back to it. And that's how he managed his executive team, and they were abundantly successful. So that's one book. The, the four sessions of ordinary Executive by Patrick, Missioni. I like that book. Another book that I think about, leadership by the good book, that's by David l Stewart, black billionaire born in the US, at one point, considered to be one of the wealthiest African Americans in the world. And so his book, It's really good. It's I can go on because he that's a thick book, but, the leadership by the good book, he, I really enjoyed that book by him. Another book that I think about, when it comes to development, the people's principles, that's by are done with you peoples. And so it does walk out, acquisitions of real estate developments, galvanized in communities, some success, some failure, working with municipal parties. It it just walks you through the highs and include the lows of if you're gonna be a developer in how you always someone see, you know, like, something I do in twenty twenty three might not bring fruit until twenty twenty five. And so you begin to get comfortable. Right? You get comfortable with the longer shelf life. As a developer, if you wanna do it right. If you wanna do it fast, that's another thing, but if you wanna do it right, it takes time. And then the last one that really kinda, like, fires me up, most recently, is the color of money. That book is, you know, that book is written by, a UGA law professor, Mercer, Barbara. But that book just shows the policy and the legislation of how money moves and as a banker. I'm always interested to see how Now, you know, what's the root of how this came about, you know, the acceleration of banks, how the there's a formula called the, the money multiplier. She talks about that in in her book and how they impact other banks. In other communities and how that rolls up the real estate and things of that nature as well. So, I can go on, but those are the ones they, like, kind of craft where I'm doing how I'm feeling and especially what I'm thinking in, twenty twenty three when it comes to, development. Awesome. Yeah. I think it's interesting. Like, I don't think a lot of people don't even realize what banks actually do. They don't. But they You know, it's it's really the the the color of money. It's a really big deal. I mean, it's, it speaks to, you know, the role in banks and creating opportunities for people take risks. Well, one question, you know, mentioned a lot of books. I'm obviously a reader too of actual books. You're a reader of actual books. How how do you think about the role of books versus other content sources that are available today. You know, some people get all their their information from, short form stuff like on TikTok, other people, you know, read tweets, just Twitter storms to get information. Some people listen to podcasts. How how do you see the role of books in a personal development as somebody that gets a chance to interact and lead people of multiple ages. Yes. Well, one, books are more intentional. It takes a higher level of discipline to synthesize that information, get it on paper, get it in order, get it broken into chapters and see it through. Because we live in an age now where we can be very auditory, with information. It's not always vetted. I feel with books, there is some level of vetting that has to occur. If you're gonna say it's coming from a factual standpoint, if it's, non fiction. But one thing that I consistently notice, even in to the the podcast or the interviews, you know, audio books, all those things. Specifically podcasts, the ones I listen to, the podcasts I listen to, they're still talking about books. And so that there that should show that there's some requirement of it. It's nothing like it. As a matter of fact, they're you know, I know that's this is not the subject for today, but we we can pull information to show that there is a, a correspondence between our hand eye coordination when we're reading a book when we're having to go line for line, versus when you just hear it, And so there are just some basic learning skills that comes when we read, it amplifies our memories. Usually when a person or at least for my case, if I read so much, I have to write. Like, I can't can't read a lot. And not right. It's almost like my hand is like getting me some pen and paper. And so I just think that's good for us, especially in the time where we're dealing with Another phrase that's in the marketplace, digital dementia where individuals are not as remembering as much, or knowing as much. Because you don't need to. You can just hear it and go. And so I think books are still vital. So vital Amazon built their original business model off the selling of books. So I think I think they got that right. One would say. Yeah. That's strong. I I agree with you. I am I think, I mean, I think books are a great foundation that if you wanna lead learn in other formats. It's a it's a really a good place to start. Like, there was a a sales teacher named David Sandler. It's like, hey, You don't have to do cold calls forever, but you have to do a hundred cold calls if you're gonna be in sales. So I think in some in some, like, in learning, it's like, you don't have to read you know, forty books a year every year forever, but you should probably get a pretty good foundation on learning through reading to take other areas, and then I I completely agree with you. Sometimes, you know, you just read the first twenty percent of a book and, you know, get out your notepad and it just can be a such a a rich source of inspiration. Brandon, you've been really gracious with your time today. What's the best way to for people to keep up with DC. Yeah. Look me up on LinkedIn. Brandon, m Cleveland, also can follow me on, Instagram City executive. You'll see pictures of myself and my wife outside of this That's what I'm doing a lot a lot of my time with, with her. And those are the primary places. Someone want to connect with me directly, they're more than welcome to email me very simple, executive director at daniel Payne dot org. And I'm happy to be, asset asset or value, in a way I can. But Adam, I appreciate you having me on, just love the work you're doing as a leader in the marketplace, as you continue to really man trough through in a a place where, you know, we need more individuals who are reading, and then creating the content that you're creating. Because that's where the hybrid is. You know, sometimes you want to be electric. Let's say it's okay for gas. I think that's the, I think we still got some oil pipelines in the country as well. So they haven't taken away the gas station. So keep the books. Yeah. I'm gonna keep the books. It's a good reminder to be a hybrid whatever you're doing, be a hybrid. Yeah. Appreciate you, Brandon. Talk to you soon. Alright. Talk with you soon.