Digital Brandscape Transformation: Charting the Course in Social Media Waters

Hello, everyone. And thank you guys for joining us again. Welcome to the Howstrong podcast. Today, we're really excited to talk about a topic that everybody is interested and engaged in, and it's really the state of social media. So again, I'm Lisa Coto. I enjoy marketing of all sorts, and I specialize in market research. Troy Beats is with us today as well. But, I'm gonna pass the mic over to Stephanie Curle. She's been in the social media space, for quite some time and is our expert in this. So, Romino, you wanna give a quick introduction on how you enjoyed working with Stephanie. Yeah. This conversation, it always starts the same way every time that there isn't anybody I trust more than Stephanie. I've worked with her for a very long time. She was actually at Lexus. That's where I met her, and she was heading up social media. And her brain just works differently. And and you know this because the second I caught him to the building, you sort of know who you're gonna gravitate towards, and it was absolutely Stephanie because we were completely on the there's the mainstream way to market and then there's this other sort of, different way. And Stephanie and I were completely aligned with how do we do things differently. And, she really changed the way I saw social media. She was was always willing to take risks. She was really good with the agencies and making sure that Lexus's perspective was was taken into consideration. And, when when I moved on from Lexus and she had moved on, I stayed in touch with her. When when I eventually went over to to Dolores as the CMO. I brought Stephanie over again, as we launched that brand and, I I wouldn't have it any other way of having her on this podcast to kind of talk to it and just take some of what's in her brain and and give it to some of those people out there that are looking for ways to amplify their brand, amplify themselves, and and understand certain topics like social media. And I I know this is new to you, Stephanie, the way I introduce you every time. I feel like I should just record it and then hit play. It's always the same. It's always gonna be the same. Thank you. Thank you both for the the warm introduction and the beyond flattering, kind words. I I feel like I was at the right place at the right time, but, you know, my background for the past decade has been in social media, primarily for the auto world, with Lexus, with Honda, and then Dolorian, but traditionally, I came from the world of PR in communications. And what brought me to social media was what I call a new wave of PR. It's faster. The the next generation didn't wanna read traditional press releases anymore. They didn't want the old ways of looking at things. They wanted things in a hundred and forty characters or less. So I like the way that media was changing. I like the way that things, were adapting and thinking learning to write more concise, learning to be more creative and think out of the box, what is a social media press release? Those were things that just grab I gravitated towards and wanted to perfect in order to reach masses more effectively and, That's where I kind of took off with it. Expert. That's debatable, but I think that I I enjoy I enjoy the challenge. I enjoy looking at things differently. And with each brand, comes a new challenge, whether you're an established brand, whether you're a new brand, or you're just an up and coming brand. There's a lot of different facets to consider with social because it is challenging. So, Troy and I have had a lot of fun brainstorming out of the box, ideas, not just with social, but how does it compliment your digital footprint as a whole? And so I think that's where a lot of people think that, oh, if I just have a social campaign, I can get recognition if I throw a lot of money behind it, it's gonna work. But the truth is it won't. It it really has to tie back to a lot of other components for it to be successful. So I'm sure that's what we'll talk about here today and and comes up quite a bit on on this podcast, but I'm excited to join the conversation and see what I can contribute. Well, this this is a topic I've been wanting to have for a long time. And in a typical fashion, I can't always have Stephanie whenever I want Stephanie. So it's been a while, but this conversation was about Bud Light, and and and it still continues the the the the debates are still out there. And when I saw the the impact of that particular social post, I I think the only issue I would have had as a marketer, if I'd worked for Adheiser Bush, and I was on the Budlight campaign is the the topic itself doesn't bother me. The what would have caused me some pain would have been bud light validating what is a woman on the can. It's at three hundred and sixty days a woman. That, that I probably would have stayed away from. Everything else I'm actually in favor of. And I went back and I looked at, Anheuser Bush and Bud Life specifically. I looked at their brand guidelines. And I know every time we ran social, you know, it always had to bounce off the brand. Like, is is this gonna be okay for the brand it healthy for the brand, does the brand allow us to extend ourselves into this particular conversation? And I looked at the the brand guidelines and I think I sent them to you guys too. One of the things that you see right away and this is literally on page, three of their guidelines is that the brand identity is to bring to life the idea of free to live the life of your dreams. And the the entire presentation, is very consistent with that particular free to live your life of your dreams. And it almost begs for the conversations that they that they've had on social. And what I wanna ask Stephanie is if the brand is saying that we're gonna focus on living the best life you have, and you have the Brian Mulvaney conversation. And they get such negative responses to that campaign because it's a transgender conversation. And it looks like that Bud Light is saying, we absolutely endorse this lifestyle. And It it it almost, angers me to a point when what Budlight should have done is say, here are our brand guidelines. Here's who we are as a brand. And the the idea is that you get to live the best life you want, and we're gonna celebrate that, and we're gonna showcase that. And not everybody's life is the same. It almost tells me that if Bud Light were to amplify their own brand guidelines, Are people who are saying you shouldn't have done that or saying you shouldn't allow people to live their best lives? And I don't know why they didn't stand by their guidelines and why they gave up so easily. Would you have done something different? If the brand dictated that we could have done something like that? So just to be clear, what you were saying is that you felt that the brand should have been standing behind their position and their tagline when it would seem to cater more to a certain community. Yes. Got it. They're not the first brand to do that, and they certainly won't be the last. Right? When Oreo took a huge stance on, gay transgender Right. Where they literally were taking their it wasn't even the messaging. It was the imagery of the cookies with the rainbow coloring and the fill and they just came out swinging with a whole different perspective that nobody expected from a cookie. Right? I mean, how can it make an impact? But it did. Oreo just completely revamped themselves to really speak loudly. You saw it again. You see a lot of the brands getting behind Black Lives Matter Right? And a lot of people don't agree with that. Why should a brand speak to something so powerful and politically? I think there's there's kind of two messages here. What's your angle? What are you trying to accomplish by going behind a certain cause and how far are you willing to go with it? Because when you go that route, and I think Disney is probably heaviest hitter in it right now is when you decide to go a certain route, you're going to isolate people, Nike too, when they got behind, Kapernick, right? You know, a lot of people said, I'm not buying Nike anymore. He doesn't support the country and what he stands for, but that's that's not what he's saying. That's not what it's out. Everyone has a position, and everyone's free to have a position on it. But the question as a brand is, are you willing to take a hit for a cause? Did what they, you know, do do I agree with what Budweiser did? I think if they really were more powerful about what they were trying to do, then I would have I I this is where I get torn, you know, and we we dealt with this brain a lot is -- Oh, yeah. -- do I need to defend my actions by responding to it? Sometimes, maybe to make it more clear about what my position is if it's not being there enough in in my video or my commercial or my social post. But at the same time too, if it is Chris clear and people just don't agree with it. No. I I wouldn't respond to it because you're entitled to feel the way that you feel. And as a marketer, I'm entitled to position my brand, the way I see fit. If it's not necessarily hurting you, which, in this case, it doesn't seem to be hurting anyone. I don't know if I need to justify it. I think it's a bold move from a beer brand, but I guess for me, in my mind, I would wanna understand more about why. Why did you decide to go down this road as opposed to something mainstream? So yeah. So the the other thing I was thinking about too is if this were a campaign that that its campaign was a year long campaign campaign celebrating journeys, And this particular one was just the first of many, celebrating journeys and milestones and in people who are trying to live their best life. I could say, listen, this is one of many conversations we're gonna have about our stance on living your best life, then I think it would have been a little bit different, a little different of a conversation. So I so if they said Troy, we'd like to do this. What would be your thoughts? If I went to an agent and say, listen, well, you you'd probably want this to be the first of many conversations. That that tap a wide variety of people who are who are drinking your beer. Right. I would have stayed away from the frat conversation because I I was in a fraternity and and I have a lot of fraternity brothers around around the US. And, What's your those stories? Those are the ones we've seen. That's a different podcast. We're producing right now. But, but you'd say, you you know, Now you're singling out the Freddie kind of beer. I can tell you when I was in school, I couldn't afford Budlight. I was, we we were definitely not buying Bud Light, not for that reason, but we couldn't afford it. But, you start saying that that that's a negative now, now you've now you've isolated two separate groups, people who are in fraternities, and then people who are transgender, and now you're finding everybody in between. I I think it could have been done differently, but that's hindsight. I I will say I actually did some and and you did some great, great comments about things like this happened in the past. I sent you guys a photograph of Mikhail Gorbachev. He was leaving his post And this was in the late eighties, and, he did a campaign with Qui Fatant. And Gorbachev back then, he was definitely in in terms of public perception loved and hated at the same time. And the the interesting thing that Louis Vuitton did, it they got a a huge backlash for being part of that that Gorbachev campaign, and they responded. And mind you, this is in the late eighties. They basically said, our company has absolutely no intention to pass any other messages than the one on personal journeys. And that's the only way they responded to that campaign, and they moved on. And I I thought that was really well done even back then. So people were taking risks back then, but, the other one, this more of a question on pop culture than it is social media. When when you and I, I was actually on the Toyota side. When the gold tooth campaign came out. Oh my god. Yeah. And that thing turned that thing turned real quick. And I don't know that that would happen today. I don't know that that type of imagery would cause so much uproar. And Lisa, you don't know this, but when what if you're in Toyota and that and when that picture came out, it was really more of an advertisement for tapping a different type of subsegment, a youth oriented, because they were planning on doing, scion. And the the idea of of getting younger people in connecting with a different demographic, it was edgy, but that's kind of where we were going with our products. And I I couldn't tell you how bad it was on the inside, at Toyota experiencing all the backlash when there was a lot of diversity in Toyota at the time working very positively with a lot of campaigns. And this one came out and we basically had a year of coaching on, racism. And make sure. Oh, it was it was it was terrible at the time. It was it was basically saying And this was through the rainbow coalition. This was Jesse Jackson, and and we had to go to him and start this whole program to make sort of amends for it. And I I didn't think it was necessary. There there wasn't a bad intention at all involved in that. And and it's more of the education, I think, to to maybe during that time period that was offensive. But, But I think you have to I think you have to look at what it means from a brand to put something up like that out. Right? You know, because when they did the whole swagger wagging with busta rhymes, that also got a backlash too because you have this, you know, suburban white family with this black rapper coming in, and then they're trying to act like him, and it looks bad. Right? You know, it's like they need to wear a certain outfit. Do they need to wrap? Do they need to be doing all these dance moves? Like, it looks awkward. And what are we seeing as a brand? Like, what are we trying to sell here? It's tone deaf. And I think for me, in the marketing world, particularly in social, when you get those responses so quickly or in or in PR, What campaign, putting out a tone deaf message can hurt you more than anything else? And those things, even remembering, obviously, you were on the brand side, so you remember it more than probably the public does. But I remember I even wrote, a thesis paper on that gold tooth and, it doesn't go away. You know, those stains don't go away because people remember them. And you have to, you have to take into account, how is the public gonna perceive that? Right? You know, do do your think tanks, you know, get your messages out there, talk to different people of all backgrounds because those are stains that really hurt. And I I, to this day, look that busta rhymes campaign. And as a fan of busta rhymes, I love him, but I just cannot get behind that that whole campaign, even though swagger wagon stuck with so many families, Mhmm. But the the visual that went with it is just for me, borderline offensive. Yeah. I'm intrigued. I wanna Google it so I can You should take a look at it. You should take a look at it. There's so respectful conscientious. They do their homework. Legal is at your fingertips always making sure in your button that, Lexus exclusively very, very cautious about, anything to that nature. So it's kind of surprising when things like this come out about how they got passed through so many hands before in order for them to come out with it. You know, I think Toyota takes a few more risks than Lexus and for good reason, but at the same time too, all all brands take risks. The question is why and are you really listening you know, I mean, I've seen a lot of other brands take similar stances on things or do things that are just ridiculous. Some not even in this country, like, I know, Domino's, and this was back in twenty twenty, did and this was in another country. This was in Australia and New Zealand. They did a Domino's NICE Karen campaign. Right? They took a bit more to see how many Karens out there, or considered NICE. Yeah. Exactly. And two hundred and fifty words or less wanted to know if you were a nice carrot in order to win a pizza. Now, again, this was in Australia, New Zealand, so it's a little different the United States. But nonetheless, it was on Facebook and people took note of it, and you can still find some people doing write ups on it, and it was horrible. I mean, why would you do that? But it happens and it hits the brand even if it wasn't intended to. Yeah. So one of the one of the things that I've always had an issue with And from the from the social media side, I understand it. I understand the idea of influencers. I I understand the idea why they're necessary. I I what I don't understand is when a company associates with an influencer, one for the adjacency, But you clearly know it's only for the purpose to attract their followers. There's nothing inherently mutual about it other than you're an influencer and we can we can gain entry into your into your fan base is influencers' social media. I know that's a strange question. Would you use so would you use influencers? I I I don't understand why I would need to use them. I'd feel pressure to do it just because they're part of a marketing sort of, at your service. They're easy to get. But I I don't think that those influencers actually love or even respect your brand. Their their their inf their influencers, but they'll take your money. It's not really they're not associated with your brand at all. I found it very hard to find influencers when we were doing even the, the Doloran campaigns. Right. I I think that it really depends on the brand. I mean, yeah, there's a lot out there who are looking to make a dollar, and then there's some out there who are genuine. You know, I think some of the best use of influencers I've seen was, like, for savage fencing. Right? Rhiana's savage fencing line. She used some actors, actresses, well known people, but she also used a lot of people who were just influencers online who wanted to test the product, and looked good at it. And then she put paid behind it, and it hit the right audience. It hit me. It hit a lot of my friends. Mhmm. That's the audience she was going after, and it appealed me because some of these women were just regular women. Yes. It was great. It was a great product. It's like, well, there's not much more to it. And a lot of people stand behind Rihanna because of who she is and what she stands for. You know, it was it was really well done. I was really I was really surprised at how she used influencers because it was really done in a unique and unauthentic way where I didn't feel like it was so much of a marketing campaign as it was like, hey, I really support what you're doing. I like the way I look in this. I like the way it makes me feel. And she said, okay. I'm gonna put I wanna promote you. And I'm sure they got kind of compensation for it. If and nothing else, they got more followers, because we wouldn't wanna be associated with a brand like that. But it it was done in a tasteful way to your point. You know, are there plenty of influencers out there that just get paid and promote on their post or whatever it is that they're promoting. Absolutely. And you can you can tell when somebody just has a scripted message. No, go ahead. I think the benefit of using the influencers sometimes is that when you find the right one, it can increase engagement, and that's what a lot of these companies want. You know? So she can answer questions that other people may have right away. So you can, you know, display or promote a product in a different way by using different influencers. Like, I know a lot of influencers that suffer with di disabilities kind of put their different perspective and spin on it and that's a a unique group that people forget about. And so I think that like what you're saying to savage Xfenty It was. It was like everyday women that look and have the body roles and not everybody's like a stick figure. That was super attractive because it was relatable. It was like, oh, I look just like her. So I know that's gonna look good on me. So it was easy and that was like an easy marketing thing and it just took off. Which extended to her fashion shows which were. Oh my god. So amazing because again, it had like the real woman of America. It was just all types of people and dis disabled people. So I think that that's what the influenza kinda help out with. Yeah. But when I see it, when because there's a there's definitely a paid spend portion, which which, Stephanie and I had worked on before. We work with Supercar blondie. That was a really good campaign when we were launching Dolorian at Pebble Beach. And she's got a I can't I think it's over forty million or twenty million followers. If, you definitely get visibility on that channel. I think with with influencers, you're only visible until the next post and you you drop off fairly quickly within that first fifteen or thirty second opportunity with that influencer, they've got one hundred other topics they're gonna cover with hundred other companies, and I don't think you're as relevant long term as you are that tiny little piece of when you're relevant with the for that fifteen or thirty second piece. And and that's where I'm like, I don't know that that's worth the spend, but, in our particular case, we we we definitely got a lot of looks on our vehicle and at that, at Pebble Beach. And I think some influencers validate you. If if this particular person is paying attention to you in some ways, you are now being validated by somebody like a super car blondie whose whose work is to amplify and and be off things automotive. And if she gives you your your stamp, you know, I I think we're good. And I think that particular case had actually worked out real well. The the other side of social media that is very interesting is the idea, and I I definitely got this during, Stephanie and I's last tour, which was your your grade at every second social media is out. And, they're gonna love you. They're gonna hate you. It doesn't matter what you put out on social media. I I wanna say stuff that the first social media post we had I think one percent was positive and ninety nine percent was negative. Right. And and the more you grow socially change a little bit. But one of the things that was really interesting to me is we had put in a, it was for April fools. We put in a, fuzzy picture, blurred vision of the of the of the alpha five that we were launching. And we told everybody we're gonna show you the real picture of the vehicle on April first. And then instead we show them a blurred vision. And a few days later, we would show them the actual picture, but the amount of comments we got on the blurred vision where you can't really see the shape of the vehicle. It's just a blur. How many people said this is the ugliest car I've ever seen? It's terrible. My eyes are bleeding. And I'm like, this is a blurred vision. You can't see the car, but they wanted to post something negative anyway, even if they couldn't see it. And they were given their two cents about the shape of the vehicle when there's absolutely no dimension to the car, on this blurred vision, and it was, It was interesting. So I used to read every comment, and Stephanie would be like, don't read all these comments. And, people were brutal. And it's really interesting to see human nature at work when they're behind the computer. And they they took it one step further. I remember getting a phone call from some guy who just got my number left me a message and basically said, they're probably gonna bleep this out, but, He goes, you guys are faggots over there. Why are you making an e v delorean? That's not an e v. You guys are soft. And it just kept going on and on. And and it was interesting to figure out that there are some people out there that really just want to hate on everything. And they have absolutely no interests other than to try and make somebody else's life miserable. And this was almost all the time. And social media was I think there were some positives out there. We kinda learned from them. I needed to see what these comments were so I knew what kind of action we were getting and stuff. He's like, you gotta stop doing that. And, it's unhealthy to do that because you will dwell on all those negative comments But one of them was, Mahavi Gray, the the band that we're gonna be interviewing later on this afternoon. And, Zander, who's the lead singer of the band, put out something that says, hey, you guys are awesome. You guys are on the right track. Love the product. And that was all. So I contacted him and then found out he was in Mahati Gray, and we became friends after that. And Yeah. An amazing amazing connection was made because of that. I probably wouldn't do that again just because you get to absorb all the negativeness of it, but But, again, on social, on the social side, you look at somebody like Mahati Gray. I I love their music. I know Stephanie and I were proponents of them being at Pebble Beach and being the band that was gonna play our our event. And, it turned out differently, not not because we didn't want them there. I I think Stephanie and I voted one hundred percent. They would be there, but they they got out voted by the vendor, so we didn't use them. But I I listened to their music, and I see their videos, and I see these origin videos, origin of video one, two, and three. And I'm completely blown away by how good they are, and I cannot fathom why they've not gotten enough attention. And and Steph sent me a video today. They've got one video that had thirteen thousand views. Mhmm. But the for the most part, their views are right around I wanna say seven hundred. And the music is really good. The videos that are shot are very good. And I just can't grasp why they're not on the radio, either not everywhere. And and, thankfully, we have Lisa here who actually has a background in entertainment was a singer herself. She had a a contract, correct, for a record label. She knows She knows the ins and outs of this. If I asked her this before, I said, it's not always the people who have talent that win. And I think social media helps those that who aren't who aren't really good at their craft, excel through social media. I I think social media really amplifies a different perspective of a band, even if they're not good, but they might be likable. And Mohave Gray is in that. They're they're likable and they're really talented. So Lisa, you can confirm that talent doesn't. It's not the main thing. Oh, no. Not at all. So the artist's main job is to be just that, the artistry, but it's your management, it's it's the label that you're associated with and what type of distribution channels do they have. And so I feel as though with Mahavi Gray, they seem like they're trying to get their footing and identify with which, type of management that they want. And then I think we're gonna start to see them kind of take off. They have all the elements that you need. It's just we don't know anything about them. And that's what management kinda comes and does is kinda creates a story, and and it's necessary because they have the relationships with the radio stations and also with, you know, the streaming platform so that they could get them in right away with an already built in audience. And so I think that, for them, it is their job, you know, to just con completely you know, maintain and just create good music. That's that's their job is to create the music, the vibe, everything else, I think that based on what I've seen that they're trying to create their own, like, little buzz and sensation, and just when I think they might be dance music, or EDM that they kinda seem like they're trying to create their own genre in my opinion. And I think that maybe that confusion for some music listeners is kind of where the issues at that they they need to kind of put them in a box when I was get in the music industry. A lot of the ANR, the people that get to decide who we choose with, they wanna know who are they like. Are they the next two, you know, is it the next maroon five? What is this group all about? Just just for them to kinda get an idea of of where they're coming from. Yeah. No. We you and I talked about this too, and and I'm starting to think, and we'll ask them when when they're on the podcast. If if they have the means, if they're okay, if they can pay their bills and they're happy just producing music and this is a passion project for them and they don't need the, the amplification or they're just as happy putting out good music, then then that's one thing. The the other thing is if they absolutely love doing music and producing great songs and great material, and wanna amplify themselves, then there is this next step they have to take. And I I would say from Stephanie's perspective, if if if this is an they're not new because I sent you guys a video from them from two thousand thirteen, and he's an amazing singer. I I was blown away with with what he was capable of doing even back in two thousand and thirteen. I'm like, why why hasn't he been around or have why haven't I heard him if if it was you, Stephanie, and and they put this band in front of you and and you had worked in an agency obviously before, what would be that first step into getting them noticed? Well, you have your organic route. Right? You know, which they're doing very well. I think the the thing that I would also take a look at too is, you know, there's the organic route and there's the paid route. Paid route is a whole different thing. So I'm just gonna kinda look at the organic route right now because that's where they are. I think one thing that I noticed off the bat was they do a really good job at putting a lot of information about the band out there. Right? I I saw some accolades they got, some some press they got. I saw a lot of their promotion for their upcoming albums and various things behind the scenes. Which I liked. I think one thing that I did notice was that, I particularly like the fact they were responding to fans, which sometimes you don't see. When bands start to get bigger and notoriety. But I noticed Zander was responding on the Mojave gray channel. And I think sometimes, there was I I felt like there was a little competition between Zander's platforms and Mojave Grace platforms. And although -- That's interesting. -- coming the same. From a branding perspective, you don't wanna compete with the two. It's not like Justin Timberlake and in sync, even though sometimes people may think that, or it's not you know, pick a band and who their front leader is, it's you wanna promote the band. And so I probably encourage a little bit more about the band direction versus just lead singer. I didn't even catch the name of the guitarist. Yeah. Posey. Yeah. I didn't even know who he was. So it took me a while to kind of drill through that. And try to find that. So that's what I mean by trying to build that brand identity online and make sure that that's at the forefront versus the individual profiles. Coming in there. So if you're gonna respond to fans, do it from the brand profile and not your own as a way to start to build that that notoriety. And don't be afraid to do some man on the street interviewing and find out what do people think about your brand? Right? People always trust, like, we were talking about influencers, and people who are listening. But how are they leveraging that? What are your fans saying? How are you using that in your social media? Contact technology because that's gonna help harness more power because no one likes to see themself more than you do. Right? So we're seeing people out there that are are vibing with your music and they're feeling it, you wanna get out there and think through that content too. So I I would suggest putting a little bit more fandom into that and also at their events adding hashtags pulling in some more of that content, adding it to some of their content, themselves, maybe even putting it some of their music videos, show those fans. Let them know the fans are at the forefront of their music. And that they're listening. So there's stuff you can do to kinda harness that because they have a decent following. Right. But what are they doing? They're responding, which is huge. That's wonderful. Those are some tricks that that I know a lot of brands use, some celebrities. You also wanna look at, and a lot of people don't pay attention to this is How many people are following you, right? Followers are currency, particularly with corporate America, but how many are you following back? Right? That's key because that shows you're listening back at your fans. You show interest in your fans. So if you have somebody who has a million followers and they're only following one person, What are you really? What are you listening to? What are you what are you gaining out of that? So I try to look for somebody who has balance and understands the use social and how to engage their fans in different capacities. I mean, there's always little tiny tricks, but those are just a few things that I look for. To know what I'm being listened to, to know that the brand hasn't gotten so big, because you know when you start hitting the Rhianna profiles, the the big huge multi million dollar contracts. It's gonna be a lot harder to manage that. But when Hobby Gray is now, they still have the ability to interact with fans, engage with fans, establish their brand identity and continue using them in unique ways. That you can't when you're at a different level. Yeah. So those are just a few stepping stones. Yes. I think for for a band like Mahati Gray, I was thinking We again, you and I have done this in the past. We've done a Superwell commercial. They could go that slow organic route I'm thinking of the impact of something as grand as the Super Bowl, you know, buying a Super Bowl spot, introducing their new their new single and giving them a thirty second spot. I think that's where they're at. I think they've been around such a long time that that that they need something significant to happen for them to see other people listening to the body of their work. I I think they're I think they're very good. And it it it's it consumes me a lot, and it which is why I contacted him, and we started saying, you know, I think you should come in the podcast. So we could kinda just talk about where you're at right now because I have no idea. Unless they've got some sorted background, you know, if if he's lip syncing his entire you know, all of his songs, I don't know, but he's really talented. Him and Posey are amazing. I love the the videography of their videos too, and it's just was trying to figure out what is it that they want. And I think we'll ask them that today. And I think Lisa was was very in tune with that conversation. We talked about it early on. It's really You know, if you guys are in a situation where you're you're comfortable and and this really is a passion project that you can do forever and and you're okay with with finances and You guys love just making music. That's one thing. But, if you're in a position where you need to sustain this and you need income, then then how do we get you there? They refer to their music as desert dance music because at first, I've got somebody at like Oscar and I'm like desert dance music. Yep. Alright. I like that. I'm feeling that. Like, I I like where that was going. There's Yacht Rock. Why why can't you have, you know, desert? I don't know, week, but he loves Ojai. I mean, the guy a lot of their videos are in the and and I think that that's okay, but I'm thinking like, you know, maybe maybe they need to sit down with with a marketing company. Or sit down with all of us. We we do this for a living, and then kinda figure out where they need to go. And and what are those buzz words? And I think, from the marketing perspective, and I I hate this too, and I think Stephanie feels the same way. A lot of people think that marketing is just magic. Like, we just come up stuff. Like, there's not a whole lot of thought that goes into it. And some of the campaigns that we have are year long campaigns. Some of them, the social media that that goes out like Stephanie was saying that stuff gets you don't just put it out there. There's a lot of channels that have to hear at first and make sure that you're actually saying the right things for the brand and that you don't get sued. But there's a lot of thought that goes into everything that's made. If it's social, if it's experiential, any kind of digital, but, it it really is fascinating. I I wanted to show you guys something too. I'm gonna flash this. It'll be on the screen. I had worked with, Cambridge audio And they're they're probably one of my favorite audio systems. I have one at my house, and I I got to know them really well during my time at Delorian. And they have this amazing, business card, and the business card basically, this was Charlie Henderson, and His business card actually has a he's got his name on it, but he also has a song. And it's called Anastasia by Prince, and that's his favorite song. But what most people don't understand is that although it's his favorite song, he actually shows you on the business card where in the song he identifies with the music and what actually gravitated him towards that particular song. So, it's at the sixteen minute thirty second point of the song, and that's where he identifies with it. So you get this human connection through social. So, it it's social in a way. And I don't know how to explain this, Stephanie, do you is this a social campaign? I think it's more of a brand identity type thing, you know. Brand identity. When he's about, he's connecting it to the brand himself. And letting you know a little bit about him. It's it's on a business part, but if nothing else, it's pushing that conversation piece to start something and make you remember him. Yeah. And it it and it goes from you have to go through here and then you got then you have to go to Cambridge audio. You could probably look at the song there. It takes you from the business card to a platform. Which I think is brilliant. I mentioned to you guys that I sent that video. It was the, the Uber video that was a Super Bowl commercial and it was probably one of my favorite videos of all time. I'll I'll have the link on here and, and I'll show it to you. But, are there any social campaigns that you guys gravitated towards that that that you identify with that got your attention In general? Yeah. In general. Oh, yeah. There's tons of them. Obviously, a lot of them are three sixty campaigns. I wouldn't just say they're social, but they have a strong social component, like Sherah Coke has been around forever and everyone recognize that. Right? Dove does a great job at trying to pull up the heartstrings and go after kind of the emotional route with women in particular, the like a girl campaign. Great job at fostering that self empowerment for women and young girls. I like some of the fun ones. If you have never seen Heineken's departure roulette, but that came out, I think, in twenty fourteen, where, they're they're all about the journey, the discovery, going to the airport. They were willing to see which people would be willing to roll a dice and see where, give up their current travel plans for whatever they ended up rolling to. It could be Lebanon. It could be New York. It could be any destination in the world, but it it you take a risk and you enjoy the journey. And that was kind of the messaging behind it. I thought it was just a really well executed campaign, and it was fun. No. But those are three right off the bat that I know that come to mind when I think of just creativity and, reaching audiences in different ways. Yeah. Thank you, Stephanie, so much for joining us and stuff. But before you go, you know, we see that social media is just increasing So in general, you know, where is it at? Where where do you think the increase is coming from? Or where do you where do you think social media is gonna be in the next year or so? I think everybody wants to know, but why is it increasing? I mean, people are on their phones more now than ever. I think that it's, it's a quick way to communicate, stay in touch. Unfortunately, I think it's taken over phone conversations, it's taken even to some extent email. People are using it as a way of communication, sending a touch, but also research, being in the know, pop culture, everything. It's being used as a medium for all gateways of communication and just interest. It's easy. It's fun. It's safe. You can hide behind it. There's a million and one reasons why people are using it and why it's becoming even more aggressive than it used to be. But, where it's going. That's that's a whole separate conversation. That might take a lot longer. But, yeah, but we'll get you next time stuff. We'll have a whole whole episode dedicated to just Steph and social media and and what it takes to succeed. Then the conversation sort of shifted into, well, if it's horror, There's going to be a villain. And then you separate villains. So there's a villain in Friday the thirteenth, which is Jason. But then you also have, very articulate well dressed villains that are in James Bond. And those villains can wear Rolex watches. They can blow up buildings. They can drive Jag bars. They can drive rolls royces. And there is this bad boy villain where companies really respond well to. Ideally, though, they're they're sort of doing the same thing. They're eliminating one of them is doing it with an axe and the other guy's doing it from the distance with a a sniper rifle or he's planted nuclear bombs in a building. It was really interesting to kind of separate the two where villains are really from the brand side and product placement side are actually viewed very well. As as ambassadors for for for brands. And I was kind of understanding that once I got through it, but that was interesting. And then we talked about, a lot of the Quentin Tarantino movies. So a lot of the movies that have products, specifically with Quentin Tarantino, His product placement is all fake. So he makes the cigarette packages, the the red apple cigarettes. They're in almost every film that Quentin Tarantino does. And the big kahuna burger, which was in pulp fiction, a completely made up brand. And then he he told me that the issue is that when you get raided, like rated r or rated n c seventeen. Some of the material in the scripts, a lot of these companies don't wanna participate. So instead of him going out and asking for brands to participate in his film, he creates brands that look like they've been around for fifty years. Very well produced, but they're not real. And that was a really good way of getting around product placement. But he he's interesting that the the podcast is up now with that info remember coming to coming to America and Eddie Murphy in it, he put McDowell's instead of McDonald's. I remember that one as well. I thought that that was pretty funny and a great way of kinda, you know, getting the same message, but just using a different brand instead of having to pay McDonald's. Yeah. Yeah. So he he was interesting. We just finished up the the tiger boxing podcast. That'll be on, by the end of the week. And I I went over the podcast again and just completely kind of blown away with with him and his family and and how he's how him and Amika are doing in terms of boxing and and how they got to where they were. And I wanted to Family's message is is very attractive to just about anybody. It's that feel good story that we kinda need in our daily lives of people just actually pushing through becoming, you know, the person that they need to be to evolve. They both had to go through processes of involvement to kind of find their way and they're still going. And I think that's what I loved that podcast the most because I think we all can identify with those our own personal struggles. Yeah. And and it it's it's starting to to resonate. You you know, as well as I do, the reason we we started this podcast was kinda focused on Not small businesses, not businesses, not necessarily entrepreneurs, but successful people in a lot of different industries to kind of figure out what what is that thing that drives them to succeed? And we've gone so deep that I'm starting to see these trends and and and I'd love to see them some more when we talk to Mojave Gray and a few of the other guests we have upcoming this month, but there there is a trend and it was a trend I wasn't really expecting. Of the podcast we've done so far, when we drill down, we're starting to see it in in correct me if I'm wrong. If you see something different, let me know. But there is, a spiritualness. There is something coming into their lives and saying, you need to do this, and you're not paying attention. So I'm going to make this abundantly clear by this thing that's going to happen to you and then it happens and they all recognize it. They all recognize that there was something spiritual that caused them to change. And and everyone that we've spoken to so far, they didn't come into this world and and knew at seven they want it to be a boxer or a movie producer. A singer, an athlete. A lot of these things there was some course correcting done. And they were they were in some cases going against their path, and then There was this correction that needed to be made and those corrections were quite severe. But once they made those corrections, the the path seemed to be much more clear and successful. I I think you've noticed. Is there anything I'm missing? Did you notice anything else that that's causing these people to to do the things that they're doing? No. It's you're absolutely right. You're tapping into what I it's everybody's own personal faith. That they have either to their religion to themselves, but it's this it's this understood commitment that they have to themselves that they love themselves enough to look at themselves and say, hey, this isn't where I wanna be and I gotta just keep going. There's there's this tenacity. There's this commitment that they that they all have. And maybe maybe that in it were attracted to them or they they came into our radar, whatnot you know, for a reason. I believe everything is for a reason and we're all here for a purpose and that's to serve and to give And so I think that that's the one commonality that we all have as humans and also as Americans But right now, the state of society and our culture is to go away from religion. And so I think that most of us grapple with how are we gonna find that that discipline, you know, that that love for yourself that you can take the time to figure out what you've gotta do to keep going. Even if you don't know what the next step may be, right? That's what faith is. But I don't think that we coined it as faith because everybody's just trying to not be, you know, too too political or too offend people going back to what we started. When we're talking about Bud Light and similar to like what you said Louis Vuitton did. If you stick to your guidelines and you stick to who you are, that's enough in itself. You don't have to engage with the comments or all the backlash or anything. You're allowed to just just be who you are if you commit to that, you know, those guidelines and that brand. You know, I think all the naysayers and people will go away. Now all the other brands that, you know, maybe they weren't as solid, maybe their creative team and their process isn't sure either. And so that's why the messaging that they're putting out is a bit confusing. And so then they wanna pivot and just react to something instead of staying true to them still and staying committed to who they are. Maybe you're attracted to that because That takes a lot. Like, you know, it's confidence in itself. I do see a lot of all of our guests have a lot of confidence. They're just in this middle part and and either have a hump or they're, you know, waiting for the next next step. Yeah. And we've always talked about it too. We've we've always said that, you know, specifically for you and I and a lot of other people that I know, our our stories has still not been written And then I think people really feel like and I think this is where faith comes in because, if you feel like you're behind, If you feel like you should be somewhere else, I think if you have if you have the faith to understand that whatever story you think you you're deserved to have if you had faith in a in a bigger plan, you'd know that if you're talking about god, he's got a story so significant for you that whatever you think you should be doing, I can promise you isn't as Awesome as it's gonna be when he develops that plan for you. Mhmm. And I I think that's where these were every every one of our guests has come to realize, and this is by no means a religious channel. It really is it's evidence of them understanding that there's this much bigger significant spirituality, and they've come to that conclusion on their own. That there is something out there. Mhmm. A lot of them, I would say, ninety percent of them are, I believe in god, and they believe that this path is is the way is is where they should be going. Some of them didn't understand that until they were forty and and kinda realized that I think this is a spiritual journey. I think this is what I'm on, and then they start to understand it. And so far, that's what all of our all of our guests have have come to the conclusion on on their own. We've not pushed that narrative, but it is it's interesting to get that point so far. So we have Well, how'd it be great. Who's next? And I'm really excited about having you and Stephanie on there because you have this tremendous talent. And you can see this industry the way that they need to see this industry. And I think Stephanie's gonna help understand if if they're in a place where they'd like to amplify themselves, and they'd like to grow Mojave Gray into something global, then there's some steps they're they're gonna need to take. Right. But if they're in a situation where this is a passion project and they're okay, then then there's no need to push them into any direction that they're they're living their best life right There's no need to do anything different. So I'm loving this conversation. I can't wait for this next episode. And Me as well. Can I say something too? Yeah. I wanna circle back to what you were talking about. Why do you feel like, product placement is so hard in horror films and yet in the James Bond category, you know, why is it okay for him to have a sniper and a Tom Ford suit and all of those things? Well, I think so the horror films are dealing with gory, scary blood, you know, even though the sniper, he's beautifully executing it, but he's portrayed as a man as the most interesting man in America. Right? You know, well dressed, fit, handsome. Looks like he probably smells amazing. Right? Has all of these different tasks. And again, the ability to have these amazing conversations with different people. He epitomizes kind of like maybe what every man wishes he could be like. So I think that because it's sleek and it's sexy, and it it can be portrayed as a piece or an item that can enhance your life and make your life better Right? It's it's all about the image. And so I think that that's the difference. Well, let me ask you a question because I I know that you're I know you're single. Mhmm. Are you the are you are you the gal that likes villains? So let me let me show you this really quick because I I was doing some research. So when you when you define a villain, Mhmm. They're characterized as most of them have accents. They're focused. They're precise. They tend to be one step ahead. They have style. Mhmm. They have an eye for detail, and they're obsessed with power. Is that a man that you would find attractive just on paper? Yes. Okay. So but I mean, that's what it is. Right? You you could you're not you're not attracted to the to the the guy that drowned in a lake and and wears overalls and and hacks people up. There's really nothing endearing about him. Exactly. But the villain, but the hero, I think it's kinda boring. Yeah. I think I think that's why. And I think that all of us as humans, we have a dark side one of my favorite authors is Robert Green. And in all of his books, the art of seduction, forty eight laws of power, mastery what I'm listening to now. You know, he focuses on what's so attractive is that everybody has a dark side and that that dark side can actually help you get closer to maybe the real you of who you are. You know, everybody paints the face and, you know, all the serial killers, right? They gotta be all nice and sweet to draw you in and then they're gonna kill you And so I I think that that everybody is is kind of intrigued by their dark side. And I think that, that that is is what we can all relate to, like, you know, when no one's looking, you know, like, would I do this or what I not, you know, like, there's something about everyone's dark side that becomes attractive. And me, I'm just like an Uber feminine person, and I associate the dark side with men and masculinity because you know, it was a lot harder, you know, life back in the day. So men had to be a lot more burly and big and fight and do different things. Now we're in a different world, and so masculinity looks a little different. Yeah. But I think that that that dark side is what's attractive and what sells a lot because I think people could identify with it and, you know, feel normal because everybody else kinda has that too. Yeah. Yeah. I I think I told you this too. I I I used to love the show, Ray Donovan, Right. And we've talked about this during the product placement piece, but he's a villain in that movie. He has a dark side because of something that happened to him. But I I think I told you before when I was working in San Jose for a startup company. I was by myself, and you start to become right on of it. Like, you want to be you wanna wear these clean crisp white shirts in this nice suit, but you also wanna have a gun in the back and you want to drive the Mercedes and you don't give a shit give a shit about anybody. You can take care of your business. And I would say that that show helped me get through being up there by myself. Can you start to emulate his behavior and go, no, I am the man here. Nothing you could do that's gonna scare. We wanna get through this, and you're gonna be just fine. So it was interesting, but, again, I would I would listen and watch the, the podcast for product placement is really interesting. It dives deep into the science behind product placement. And, all genres of movies, and it was really getting how's inside. He he's I don't wanna call him a nerd, but he is definitely in on product placement. The guy knows everything about movies, why things are there, why they're not there, really interesting. Hope you guys can watch that one. Yeah. He makes he makes you wanna watch movies with a different lens on, you know, now that he's doing it, you know, with when he talks about the business, it just makes me think about watching movies, you know, differently. Your Ray Donovan is my Emily in Paris. Right? So I I, you know, I used to I love watching that series. And sadly, what I identified a lot with is how she gets hated on by all these frenches that are just so, like, oh, these American people are just so uncouth and they don't know culture and how to live, you know, and whatnot. And, yeah, she deals with a lot of stuff and and I deal with that too in marketing, I think. Yeah. A lot of times because you know, it's all about these great big ideas, these great campaigns, and then somebody else on your creative team might be jealous, might will take an idea and try to make it their own, and there's a lot of ugliness that happens in marketing that you know, we won't really see that we should talk about too. Oh, we will definitely talk about that. I've got twenty two years of of everything that you just said. It doesn't feel good, but, but good. Well, I this was a great conversation. Why don't you take us out? Lisa, and we'll we'll catch up with you when we talk to Mahdi Gray. Alright. Wonderful. So I wanna thank everybody for watching the House Strong Podcast. We had a great time breaking down and deciphering where is the state of social media today? I think we can all agree as a quick recap that it's increasing because again, it's it's right there on everybody's phones and that people are wanting to connect and wanting to have an emotion and get more information about products and services that they like. So we're gonna continue to see it grow and I look forward to continuing this conversation here, but thank everybody watching for the how strong podcast. I'm Lisa Coto. Troy Beach. And we will see you next time on our episode of Mojave Gray. Look forward to seeing you guys.