Brand Placement Strategies Are Key in Today’s Product Marketing Dynamics

So how welcome to how strong. You and I had spoke, Lisa and I did a pre interview with you. And and the way this podcast normally goes is We usually have a topic like product placement and then we we use that topic and then it lends into the major topic, which is this particular case, we were gonna go to John Euryndee. He's a director and producer of some horror films. Really good. He's with Pennwell productions at his company. And we were gonna segue product placement into that movie scene. It was interesting, to say the least. I had no idea product placement. I I've done it when I was at Lexus and and we had done a lot of stuff with with movie production and TV production and I I I didn't know how complicated it was. It's really a science. Much like marketing, there's a lot of people think marketing is magic. It's actually a lot of data Elisa's a a researcher. She she knows the amount of data that goes into marketing research. But I wanted to get everybody an overview of of how you and I met. So I actually worked for a company, which I won't name, and I worked with a product placement company, which I won't name. And They actually got me involved. I was like, we really want to amplify the product, and we have a marketing calendar where we'd like to have these milestones and and a year from now, six months from now, have our product bleed out into the community through product placement. And he presented to me a boxer who I was thrilled at the time. I I I liked his name a long time ago, and he was coming back and I did some research and, like, he absolutely wants to be part of this product and the launch. And I said, well, give me a few days, and I'll let you know. And then, and then I go online and then read the guy, was convicted of rape. And I called the product placement. I'm like, are you out of your mind? Why why on earth would I touch this guy? He's he's like, well, it's it's, you know, he was convicted, but it was settled out of court. And I'm like, that doesn't matter. That not a that doesn't go away with settled out of court, and I'm gonna get fired if if this comes out, and I said absolutely not. And at that moment, I understood that Not all product placement companies are the same. And you have someone who's completely vested in your product and understands your brand and understands the impact of the wrong people with your brand. And then there's people who just need to fill a hole for that particular person, and they're just trying to be an ends to a means. And then I got half And how's your grinder, the guys everywhere? I I think I told you the last the last thing I did was a, FAST X got the, Deloria alpha five, which was my product at time into Fast X. And I I had known a lot of people over at NBC Universal and it wasn't difficult to get in. Mhmm. And the only person who sends me a picture back of the car that I put in there was How's on set at FastX, and I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. This guy's everywhere. And then, you know, we started to talk to Hal about what it is to be product place and he just blew my mind with, how intricate it was. And is that the right perception though? Are you are you the guy that gets products into movies and television. So I'd like to think we we do a lot more. And, while product placement search, is, the buzzword and the one that people respond to the most. It's actually kind of like a catch all term because you say product placement, you know, to us and others in the industry, it it can mean several different things. And then we have even, you know, more specific terms for each of the things we're doing. So we talked mostly about branded entertainment or entertainment marketing as a whole, it is truly, you know, my personal and, you know, as an agency owner belief that the best way to market to your consumers is both in and around the content that they like. So with that as our north star, product placement does play a a major part of the types of things that we do, but it also can involve product integration, promotions, partnerships, working with celebrities, but, to what you said earlier, what we do is really no different than any agency whose goal is to act as if they're an extension of that company and have always its best interests at heart in everything that we do. So if you're not, you know, doing waking up every day thinking about what can I do to help build my client's business? It doesn't matter if you do product placement, experiential, creative media PR, what, like, doesn't matter. Right? You gotta start with taking care of your client. Always having their needs and goals at the heart of everything you're doing. So I think that's something that we all can agree. Right? It's across every business, that's where it's gotta be. And and And you did that and you did that for Mercedes because I because I know I I when we first got to to talking about product placement and the strategy that we had. I told you I was a huge Ray Donovan fan. And I I was telling Lisa, when I was in San Jose, California, I was working for a startup, And I was alone. My family was in LA. I I was there for a year by myself. And I started I started watching Ray Donovan. And it consumed me. And it consumed me where I was I was almost acting as if I were I was him at at this startup and you hadn't had that confidence and I and I was by myself and I was looking at him like, that's an amazing character. And then he had this Mercedes. And I'm like, I think it was this I think it was a CLS five fifty. I'm not sure. Yeah. But, I'm like, I need this Mercedes c l s five fifty. And it it's so strange how it worked out. I was so involved with this show, and What I didn't know, and you'll probably explain to me. So I did some research since we talked last. What I didn't know is that Ray Donovan is a Ray Donovan as a series requires product placement. Then I went one layer down and I think I sent it to you. I didn't understand that each character has product placement surrounding them that that that the show isn't really involved with as a whole. So you could have product placement for Ray Donovan, but Ray has his own product placement around him. So his was Mercedes. His was, Omega watches. He had his own product placement as character, and I didn't know that that's how far it went. So each character has their own product placement itself. Is that right? Yeah. So in every film, or TV show, the idea is building out a world. And the more you develop those things, the more fully formed the characters can be stories are. So the, writers often will start by writing what they think the character would wear, drive, do. Right? And they'll put that in there. And then they come together as a team of writers and solidify that. It works this way down to the below the line. Production between the costume designers and the prop masters, and they're all putting together stuff based on what they're reading, and that becomes an opportunity for people like us to talk to the transportation coordinators, the prop masters, custom designers to pitch our clients and explain how we think it fits the characters that they're trying to be a part of and it becomes oftentimes a really nice collaboration. So, you mentioned our our time with Mercedes you know, helping from the agency side run their entertainment marketing business is the highlight of my career. It, enabled me to go out on on my own, giving confidence, the relationships, and also, you know, the coolest things that I've done really started there. But there's so much nuance that goes into doing simple things like Hadid Ray Donovan end up driving a Mercedes versus any other vehicle that's out there. And it goes to our ability to, you know, know what our clients are looking for. Looking for opportunities that we will help transform their business. And it could be something as small as an upcoming TV show that started as a pilot that had a good cast, but you just didn't know where it was gonna go to really building into a much bigger thing. And what you said by watching the show, you liked Ray Donovan. You started you started emulating him in your daily life. So what you're saying is confirming The psychological studies that have been done when it relates, the product placement, which is when you see something, on TV or on screen with characters that you like, you just are inherently thinking better of those products, what they wear, what they drive, what they consume, and you increase your likelihood of wanting to purchase it. It is is really that simple. These are actual facts that, you know, that that back these findings And when we, you know, we're running entertainment marketing for Mercedes, we got that feedback from the dealer level when we heard from our clients that dealers were calling up the brand and saying, people are walking into our stores and saying, I want the redonament card. Didn't know exactly which one it was, but they saw him driving it, and they wanted to drive it too. Yeah. And and that's the that's the amazing thing too because when I at the show, if I looked at just the show itself with product placement, and I'm looking at a graph here. It's gonna be online. You can see it here as well. The one surprising thing that I didn't know or didn't remember is the show itself, twenty one percent of the show, the branded content was vehicle. And it was Cadillac and it was Mercedes. And then the second highest was jackets, and and I didn't remember remember this in the show. It remembers only was a huge, piece of Ray Donovan, and it was really closely tied with, with Mickey. Raised dad, who would wear members only. But one one of my favorite characters is Avi, and and he was sort of the cleaner for Ray. He didn't have the Omega watch. He didn't have the Mercedes. His character was really focused more on, I think his his brand was Coca Cola. And Microsoft and Dell, but every character has their own theme. Lena, who is his assistant, was Jeep. And Cadillac and and Raven. And Abby, his wife was Christian Dior, Mercedes Benz, very high end. And I really didn't understand character development with product placement went that far. And it absolutely does. And then one of the other things that I know you and I had talked about and kinda joked about too is when when when Ray Donovan went to New York and they they moved away from Mercedes Benz and went to Cadillac, I was out. That's not Ray Donovan. A Cadillac was not redonovan. And it changed the way that I I saw the show. And I is that is that you think that has anything to do with product placement? I think it's it's always an extension. If we are lucky enough as a brand to be considered the thing that you use, you drive, you consume. Right? When that changes, if we've done all done our job correctly, you as the viewer will also feel that change too. And, this isn't the first time I've heard it. I've heard other people say the show changed. And when he was out of a Mercedes, it just felt different. And to be clear, we had no control over what, you know, which direction that show was gonna go in. But and we were just starting to hear that that he wouldn't drive a Mercedes anymore because we had such a a great thing going with the show and and enjoyed being a part of it, and we're happy to accommodate by not just being the car that Ray drove, but again his wife, his mentor, and really building out you know, the different types of opportunities, we can showcase the different vehicles within the series. But you know, that's the way So do you think that was a director's decision or someone on the creative when they were changing the concept of what Donovan's gonna do next and he needs a new car. Just like when sometimes you break up with a significant other men always get a new car when they break up with a girlfriend Like, how did that happen you think? So I gotta be careful here to knock the bulge too much information, but but it goes to all the nuances that are involved in something like product placement, to take a step back people still feel like it's a bit of a new phenomenon. Right? When you think of product placement, you think, you know, maybe this has just been around for ten or twenty years. Right? What what do you guys think? Product placement? No. Don't ask me because I did my research. I'm not even gonna tell you. Okay. It goes way back. Or way way back. That's right. So product placement literally was started right when film was invented. And the first film that ever came out by the Lumiere brothers actually featured a product placement for Sunlight soap. So we're going way back to eighteen ninety six Right? And it just so happened that the company that was distributing that film also distributed the Liberal Brothers soap and product placement really formed. And it has kind of continued throughout all different types of entertainment medium, whether it be radio, TV shows and whatever into the future. We can talk about YouTube and everything else. So it's been around forever. Right? So going back to this specific opportunity, there are different ways to get involved. When you also hear stats about product placement, you hear it's a multi billion dollar industry But what most people get warm is that the majority of product placement is actually done for free. Absolutely free. It is a barter. We have these vehicles. We're interested in lending it for you to use during your production in exchange for you know, not doing anything negative going by these, you know, rules that were, you know, abiding by the law, right, and other things that as a brand, we cannot allow to happen. And it's an exchange of value because they then don't have to go find cars, rent them, pay that money. It decreases the production budget of a TV short film in where the majority of these deals work out. Now there is still a small, but a very big part of the industry in which we are talking about integration deals where you're paying a certain amount of money to guarantee a certain amount of exposure. Right? That's not what this rate down of an opportunity was. It was part of a very concerted effort by our team to go out and help transform the brand to make it younger, cooler, hipper, right at a time where they were redoing all their vehicles. Coming out with new ones and providing vehicles for the thirty thousand dollar, you know, entry level and up on So expanding Mercedes Benz audience like they've never done before, they were previously known as the old white man's car. And they knew to grow as a brand. They had to get cooler, hipper, more diverse, and younger. So this show was part of a really concerted effort to try and be a part of it. And we got this opportunity. As I mentioned earlier, it was just a pilot. And a pilot is almost like your test show that you create. And if lucky enough gets aired and based on the success, either before airing, or after gets the term and if it goes to Surrey. So at the time, we knew Leo Shriver was this guy Ray Donovan Donovan had a pretty good cast surrounding him. We absolutely said we'd like this and we suggested an s class. That's the type of car that, you know, he should drive without a doubt. And they said, no, we want the CLS. So we accommodated. And, you know, the show went to Series and ended up being this this huge phenomenon. As the seasons went on, we really grew with the show, providing other vehicles for other characters, updating the car ever so slightly every year. So it still felt like the same car most seasons, but other times, the newer model to coincide with what the brand had available for sale. And as the show became such a massive success, all their brands started coming in talking to the producers asking how they can buy their way on the show. And without divulging too much, I'll say, you know, that's kind of where, unfortunately. We did not continue throughout the run of the show, which we would love to have done, but again, loved our our experience with everyone on that show. Can you can you and knowing you though, because you you had told me when I was working for another car company. How's interesting because he's you you think if you if you have one car, you're okay. How's, like, how many cars do you have? I'm like, I don't six. He's like, that's we have to have more cars in that because the way how it works is at any moment, and you can obviously butt in. At any moment, how has these contacts that need something, and we need to get to that person this car right away. Whatever that thing is, he has to have he has to have it. And then What made it even worse for Hal is there's certain colors. Right? If if this is a car, I think we have the opposite of everything how like, please try. No white. But I wanna wipe cars. I was like, oh, boy. That's not cool. Yeah. So he he he has a he's really good about doing that and making sure that the product is gonna get displayed correctly. What kind of colors we needed real, really interesting meeting how, because how how was much different than the other product placement companies I had had. But I so the question I have for you though, when you said about Mercedes Benz, I work in the startup world now. So I I I help a lot of startup companies. A lot of startup companies don't have the reach. I'm not saying I know everyone, but if I need to get something in, I can, but these startup companies who don't necessarily know how to do that, where do they go? How do they get their products into a movie if they're really relatively unknown at this point? That that is the beauty, right, of of being an agency and The idea is hopefully to work with companies like us because you have that conduit to advocate for you, introduce you to the entertainment community, and do free deals, or very small fee deals, or if they have some good, retail distribution, it becomes a really powerful opportunity to stand out at retail if you can align with a big IP, a big TV show or a film. Right? All of a sudden, you are, you know, rolling with the big guys. If you're the startup brand who can say, I got the minions. Right? Or, you know, you name it. Right? So there's a lot of different ways to work on it. And as I mentioned, you know, the majority of these product been deals are done on the border and for free. So the cost to entry, right, is actually lower than most people think. But I'd like to to go back to your last comment for a second because I think this is an important point that can be used across business and the way in which, you know, we tried to build a strategy, you know, for you and and working off of what we did for Mercedes, comes from understanding the pain points, pain points of the brands, pain points of the production, pain points of the brand paints pain points of getting it into retail or, you know, breaking through in media. Right? And what we saw is There's a lot of quick turnarounds in in in TV more than film. But many times the director wants to see what that car looks like and he's in town and he wants to see right away. Well, how quickly can you get it on set? And if you can beat out a competitor, that becomes an opportunity or just really leveraging your relationships. Another thing that you across the board, which is what we hang our hats on is is building relationships that last that's based upon trust and doing right by people. So again, you know, people I've spoken to, or met even in my very early career in the mail room of a talent agency, I'm still talking to you today because relationships are paramount. So all this stuff kinda comes back to know, building the right strategy and knowing where you can win using those pain points. Well, I know that production needs the car right away. If we can deliver it, we could probably beat out all the other guys. Right? Yeah. Well, I I can tell I can go even one step further about the relationship side. I think if you're a startup company and you have got a great product, you can't go on LinkedIn and try and get someone from NBC Universal. They they are just not going to to to contact you. It's if you do it, it may be luck, but If you're in the industry awhile and you start to know these people, they'll call you. I'd say the biggest advantage of knowing you and your company is that For an early startup company that has a product that wants to get on a movie or a TV set, they're really leveraging your reputation. And and you really have to good you have to have a really good relationship with that company to say, hey, they're brand new. They're gonna be around here for a while. And it's you going in and say, hey, I'm Hal. You know who I am. Can you do this? I think that's the biggest advantage of having someone look at you go in there and do that because If you're new and you say, hey, I wanna be in Fastex. Well, good luck. You're not gonna go in there, Cole. There's an app. It is a spider web of channels within an NBC or a, Netflix. But having you there, I think, is amazing. One of the other things that we talked about that you blew my mind on, and I didn't think about it. And I was I spent so much time after our conversation going online and just and just trying to figure out, this is a thing. I didn't understand how difficult it is to get product placement. And I don't seem difficult, but I don't I don't really notice it as much in horror films as I do in other types of genres of movies. And I went online and I said, okay. Well, how that was an interesting thing. Horror movies and product placement. I'm thinking hammers, chainsaws, whatever these villains are using, is it possible to put product placement? You're not gonna say we've got the best chainsaw and, you know, chop somebody in half, and that's still five thousand chainsaw. The strongest duct tape on the market. We've got the best lie for decomposing bodies. But then I did my research. And I'm hoping that you're gonna tell me I'm on the right path. So I checked out product placement in the shiny. And there's a tremendous amount of product placement in the shining, except product placement in this particular horror movie is more subdued, and you actually have to find it instead of it being just in your face. And Jack Daniels was a huge product placement in the shining, and it was in the bar scene. And the character's name was Jack. Jack Daniels was the was the product, and then Jack was the actor. And but it's very tricky in this type of John, or, and I'm, and I'm wondering, does product placement in horror movies happen? And does it happen differently? So product placement happens in just about everything. So not only from the first film ever made, but for every TV show and film thereafter, even when they're fake product placements. Right? Shows or films that take place in different worlds or different times. They'll create the products. Right? That that are subject to that world. So can we jump on this real quick? Oh, yeah. Because I I'm telling you because I just did this. Quentin Tarantino's movies all have, fake product placement. And the cigarettes, I think it was called red rabbit cigarette. They actually move between movies. So some of the some of the fake products in, pulp fiction showed up in other Quentin Tarantino movies. And I'm wondering Is that a way to get a round product placement, or is that a oh, it is. Okay. Is it? I don't know. So going back to the harder condiment, It's not just horror, but r rated material and stuff where traditionally, most women in conservative do not wanna be involved in when they're drugs being used or dealt or murder type of horror elements type of happening often political type of stuff is also a very you know, specific red line that brands wanna stay away from. So when those themes get brought into the show or the film typically brands say, no, thank you. Which creates an opportunity for them to have some fun and create their own brands and people really get into it and create these brands and take them through everything they're doing. Because typically you if you're showing a brand in your show or film, you have to go and get that brand to clear it, to okay that it's being used. Used. Right? And in those specific type of potentially defamatory or thematically unpleasant you know, scenes, friends don't wanna be involved in it. So that's where you see people, you'll blur it, you'll break it out, you'll change the name, And, you know, for the, you know, the the brilliant minds and the prop making and and and prop master, you know, communities, you know, they'll they'll create specific props based on anything you need. They'll create new branding to put on bottles, right, of beer and stuff like that. So in within the industry, it's it's a very well known, you know, thing. If you can't get someone to clear it, you you know, you can't get it for free or you don't wanna pay for it. Right? How do you go to a prop house for these amazing places in the heart here of of Hollywood in the valley where you can go and rent out all sorts of crazy stuff. Right? So so yeah. Harr I'm really glad. Yeah. How are really glad you said that? Yep. I think with Harr though, hopefully it's slowly starting to change because horror is such a bankable box office entity right now as you know, the box office continues to kind of struggle to come back to pre pandemic levels. Horr maintains a bright spot you know, within the industry. And people don't realize it that most horror films actually skew slightly more female than male. When oftentimes you would think it's mostly a a young male based audience. Well, it's not. And with, you know, all these horror films doing so well at the box office, Megan being a Smash hit and the second one already being, you know, green lit and and and hopefully in production soon based on if the strike, you know, hopefully gets resolved. Right? There's so many opportunities, Blumhouse being, you know, the biggest horror, you know, company, and and owning kind of that landscape. They're doing so many great things along with atomic monster, which is James Wands Company, and they're talking actually about tying up and partnering up together to be like the one stop shop for everything hard. So it's doing so well in the box office. Brennan's really can't wait much longer. Not like how do you not capitalize on this opportunity? It's a captive audience. Which is also why product placement is so great in movies is you're not supposed to be on your phone. I know that's, you know, a a huge point of contention now. But, you know, when we're sitting at home, We're watching something. We're on our phone. Maybe our computer, you know, there's a lot going on there. Kids are asking questions, but you're held captive typically in that theater environment. So what you are getting, not only from, you know, the big screen, and and just this amazing experience that product placement layer also has a factor. Right? And it's gonna come through even more, you know, on the big screen when you're just looking at the, you know, the or your your phones are in your pocket or whatever. Right? So, you know, I'm hopeful that that brands are are gonna kinda come around on this opportunity. Now, obviously, I'm not advocating, you know, to be a part of the the killing aspect of it. But again, not all of that. There's there are people driving cars, consuming products going from place to place. There still are lots great opportunities for brands to get involved? Well, we we talked about this too. I'm gonna I'm gonna lose my train of thought because that's just who I am. So I wanna go back to to one thing before I go to the next thing. So stranger things, is is that considered horrible? So it's it's almost like this newer genre where it's it's sci fi with horror elements. But because I because I noticed there when we talk about the next question is gonna be period pieces. So stranger things is a period piece. It's in the eighties, and Coca Cola had a did something really interesting in season four which is the it was season four, I believe. Coca Cola released a vintage can to the public in the same way it was presented in season four of stranger things. Now that that's a that's a fantastic way to to have people buy this can. Which is a retro can just because it was in stranger things. And it would have happened any other time unless stranger things was was involved and I thought that's a really good way to take product placement out of a movie and want and then having you want to buy that camp. The next one, and you can go back to these questions any way you want. I was really interested. Everything I say about how Lisa is because when we had that hour and a half with him. Literally and he has taught this right now. You you've you've taught this professionally. So when when he speaks, I was blown away. I would have taken his class if this were if this were an institution where I could actually go and get and take this class. But when we talked about horror movies, we then switched over into villains. So Jason from Friday the thirteenth is a villain. Yes. But so so is everyone in the James Bond movie who's not James Bond. So there is a difference between villain and You can be a villain in James Bond and have a Mercedes, a Rolex watch, Tom Ford's suit, and that could be fantastic product placement. But not if you're holding an axe at a at a camp. So why do you think that is? I I think I you've already told me why that wouldn't work. But why do you think there's so much forgiveness on the I think, you know, I read it somewhere that villain has a name. Sheik or or sheik villain or or something like that. But in marketing, that type of villain is okay. That's the same thing, but maybe not the same manner. They're eliminating a lot of people, but someone is doing it, a little bit more tactfully than chopping them up into little pieces. Yeah. There seems to be, you know, a clear differentiation between, you know, axe murderer and, you know, rich billionaire genius who wants to take over the world, and we'll stop at nothing to achieve their goal. Right? You know, that's something that we just you know, inherently forgive knowing that it's, you know, fiction. Right? And we can lean into it. And and you mentioned Jaguar who who very brilliant lately, you know, you know, really went and and jumped into that opportunity, you know, by doing the whole campaign and saying, you know, where the car for bill and that comes from, you know, finding where's the white space, right? If all these car companies are doing massive promotions with, you know, marvel with Audi and what we did with, you know, Mercedes and Justice League or Jurassic World. Right? You gotta find your white space and they looked at and said, find these British, you know, villains were an inherently British company, like that's something we can lean in on, and and they did it beautifully. But You mentioned stranger things. It's such an anomaly because, you know, squid game behind it, you know, if you can break through and that's the beauty of these binge able, amazing genre bending shows, right? The squid came in a a Korean production you know, that is very much horror, lots of killing and and bad ways, but it becomes more than that. You know, it it's be very difficult to say stranger things. It's just like a horror show. No. It's a period, sci fi, you know, teen, you know, eighties throwback. Right? It's got all these great things. Great acting, great writing, and it all comes together and creates these amazing opportunities. So period pieces are very interesting when it comes to product placement because brands will typically allow their brands to be reproduced as long as they're done in the way in which they appear during that time frame. As long again as it's nothing negative. But brands typically will not pay money to promote their period piece type of products because all those marketing budgets come for what they're trying to do today, selling the current product or tomorrow product, not ten years ago, ten, you know, twenty years ago, fifty years ago, stuff like that. So there's there's different ways to do it. When you are a genre busting massive hit like stranger things, you actually change the market. So by just featuring Ego waffles, which they cleared, but, you know, a free product placement because, you know, the do for brothers, you know, again, they got their heads and said, what was big during those time frames and they continue to litter throughout the show things that made sense at what were big moments like new coke, you know, eating KFC, you know, bringing that home. Like, these are all things that that I bet, you know, they experienced as a kid. I'm a kid of the eighties, So watching that, I can't help, but, you know, think about my childhood going through similar situations with those products. But simply Eggo waffle being featured, you know, as elevens go to food, right? Immediately skyrocketing for Kelloggs. Literally out of nowhere, they can't believe it. It's something like fourteen percent after that season aired. And then they leaned into it and did more in the second season which by being involved, it became the biggest mention across social media that the Ego brand ever experienced. By being tied into the show. Right? So, again, when you have such a pop cultural moment, it is the perfect opportunity for a brand to jump in part of it. We're seeing it with the Barbie movie, which had more promotional partners and licenses than anything we've ever seen, and in just a few weeks this over a billion dollars. Right? So we're such great opportunities for brands to be in or promote around these big bingeable dramas and comedies and blockbuster films. So, you know, again, we as consumers are hit with like ten thousand ads a day and we'll do everything in our power to block it delete it. Right? Skip it. So how are you gonna break through to your consumer? How how can you make a difference? How can you get a consumer to pay any attention to your brand. Well, entertainment is just like it's sitting right there. It's something we're gonna look to do when the workday is over, the kids are put to sleep. I wanna veg out. I wanna watch a TV show. Let's put on a movie. Let's go out on a date night. Usually involving a movie. Right? So all these great opportunities. And all the data we see coming back is if you create an ad that uses a upcoming film or TV show to communicate your message the engagement, the skip through, like the brand love, the brand consideration, all of the positive attributes. From doing this partnership is gonna skyrocket. And we've seen it time and time again with all of our clients. So it's not just a product placement can be a brilliant viral video campaign. It can be an interesting limited edition product at retail or it can be an advertising campaign. All these things are the different tools that you can use to get your brain noticed to differentiate you from your competitor. And it's so much easier to do than people think. How do you think, so when we watch I I just saw the stat earlier, seventy five percent of people skip commercials they don't even see it. The advent of product placement, it's been around forever, but do you see an increase in product placement because people are skipping commercials. I mean, that's the only way they're gonna see a serial now or a new Coke or or something else. Is that is that right? Yeah. That that is absolutely it. So with limited options, we see the, again, the the skipping of TV commercials out of control? Like, how else can you get through to the consumer? Well, I need to do sponsorships. I need to do product placement. All these things are available. So the interest is at an all time high. And, you know, up until very recently, again, with this double strike. So, you know, the top of our minds here. There's never been more content available and opportunities to put your brands into. Yeah. And the other the other product placement that I was doing a while ago that I I still believe is in and I don't think a lot of people still do it. This isn't free to my to my understanding because I had to pay for it. But if I if I couldn't be at f one, I couldn't be at any of these races globally. I could go into gaming. And I could have my brand on the track while the car runs by. I could be at a PGA video game and have my banner in the back. Up there virtually. That is not free. That is where we would need a house. To say, Hey, I've got this video game I wanna be in. Can you get me there? That's correct. Right? Yep. That's a good point. Yeah. And I love I love the video game because you are if you have, any PGA video game, you're gonna get an older demographic, any racing video game. You're gonna get a different kind of demographic. If it's, a a child's game, I don't know that that's where we're at, but that may not be the company that I'm I'm endorsing on that particular video game. But video games, I think, are a great place. I understand that. What I don't understand is the metaphors. And the web three, the web three space and how you can when I look at Ray Donovan, I had this visceral reaction to the character and to who he was, and there was an or about it. And I and I wanted to, like you said, emulate that. I would have bought an omega walk I would have I would have got a a Mercedes. I love the attitude. In the in the metaverse, you're asking a brand to somehow transcend into a different space and have the same type of result. And and I've I've I spoke at the web three expo last year and I don't understand how brands can get into this space and come away with the same type of reaction. Do you see anything different? Or am I missing something? Or is there are there brands that should be in there or that shouldn't be in So what we've seen in just the last two years is from the NFT craze to the metaverse as a whole, know everyone like it never happened and moving over to AI. But the truth is all these three things are gonna have a place to play in brand's futures and absolutely the consumer's future because they all have their place. So what web three at its core, at least I believe allows us to do is take the things that we do in everyday life and bring a digital element into them. So the biggest thing that brands can do today with web three is to launch loyalty programs that allow them to be much more closer to their consumer and create digital versions of things that have more kinda like personal or inherent value than monetary value. And I think that's a lot of, part of why things kind of went array. Right? When people just got caught up on you know, all this value that's being generated by a digital object that ultimately isn't anything, but instead leaning into a loyalty, aspect of it and the technology that's available to allow you to have better one on one communication. You know, it's like taking text messaging, which became a big thing for brands to be able to text or even artists. You know, I took my kids to see, you know, van perform night and a big thing on the screen is text me and I'll get back to you. And obviously it gets a lot, right? That's technology working, but you're collecting information about your fan, right? And you're able to tell how old you are, what songs you like, and and that is immediately transferable to a brand. So finding different ways to connect to your consumer because, you know, the majority of brands that sell at retail have them the the retailer becomes the owner of the data and the relationship. And what ultimately brands want to do filled on one on one relationship to better understand their consumers so they can cater to their needs and have a lifelong consumer and web three provides excellent opportunities to do that. But, you know, just I'll stop you there. Well, no. I I I just we're all part of this marketing world in in in a in a big thing for me, and it's always been as the experiential side. I might just be too old. That might be it. Yeah. But I I think the experiential side of of of of interacting with a product touching it, feeling it, and hearing it, that there's this visceralness with with with products that you can't get, and I can give you a really, really good example, I'll show a picture of it here, but I have a Cambridge audio system. I can have that on the in in the web three space and some metaphors, but the tactfulness of turning the knob and feeling the click, you you understand more about the product viscerally by touching it and hearing it and and having somewhat of, an emotional experience with the actual product. That that's where I differ where where I don't think if I I I don't think I can go on the metaverse and experience the same thing, without truly understanding what this thing feels like turn it on and to touch the steel. Yes, but go ahead. Okay. Yes. But if you were watching a virtual or even live performance from the seat of your home, computer, or even with a headset on, watching your favorite artists perform, live or as an avatar, what have you? Both options are are available. Right? And they have completely branded it that from the speakers, is that same Cambridge audio, the bus. You are gonna think, that's an interesting partnership. Why are they there? Clearly, it has to do something with the quality of sound that's coming through. Or when you're listening to how good that artist sounds live. And it's coming through those branded speakers. Right? You're gonna think better of that brand. And an easy case could be made that that's a good sponsorship opportunity for them. So So it's interesting. It's interesting you say that because I actually came with a counter marketing plan last year for a company I was working at, and it was called Live Your City. So I'll give you that same scenario. I work for Cambridge Audio. I don't. But let's just say that I do. I want you to experience, not my system. I don't want you to experience touching it. What I want you to experience is the music. So what I'm gonna do as Cambridge is I want you to live your city. And I did this at the at the web three expo, and everyone just opened their eyes, and I'm not saying I'm a great speaker. But in that particular instance, I was, I said, and, at least, I'll ask you, not because you watch a lot of tele vision, but you do two houses, well, I am assuming. Do you binge watch shows? Of course. Yeah. Okay. You binge watch them. Right? And I asked the same question to a group of people that were in this web three space. I said, and I'll ask you Lisa, Lisa, would you binge watch your own life? Yes. I would. Okay. I'm I'm very different though. Okay. I know. But but but that's my campaign, which is Do you really wanna binge watch me sitting on my couch listening to virtual music? No. But I would binge watch Lisa getting a cab Mhmm. Running down Manhattan Boulevard going into a club and watching a a band in there. So what I did is I started giving tickets out to people and say, live your city. We're gonna set you up at a restaurant you can't normally get into. They're going to have the Cambridge audio system there in the club. I want you to experience this. I want you to go there. And there's only four tickets available. So hundreds of people would go to this one location and video their experience getting to the club. Only four people get in. But the people who didn't get in got to live that journey to this particular place, and they got off their couch and they experienced it. And I'm not saying I'm right or wrong how. There has to I'm just telling you I'm old, dude. That that's just all it is. I I need to I need to go out there. I'm sure there's a place for for someone virtually, and and I agree with it. But, I'm past my prime on that, man. I I have to actually be I have to hear it and see it and meet people and, order a drink, bump into someone, smell someone smoking, go outside as cold. I I have no idea, but all of these things matter to me with that that one particular experience. But it I'm sorry. Go ahead. So I was gonna say so what you're saying and then I wanna ask you how how has product placement evolved with on-site marketing and concerts and this Taylor Swift thing and all of the sensation that's happening around that. I mean, it's pandemonium. It's like the Beatles. It's like, does product placement have a big space and on-site marketing. I know when the Super Bowl came out here, I went to several different VIP events and I on-site, all of the there was a Scientology booth where you could go in and they they predict that they could read your mind or see how calm you are. Then you could go and they had you could try the latest Ford mobile and and and drive like a race car type of thing. It it kind of speaks to what you're talking about, Ram, you wanna feel it, touch it. What about that? Does that have a place, with product Speak to that. So it's less of a product placement thing, but before it's what Troy keeps on leaning into, in experiential marketing and ways in which you can get a captive audience. Right? You're there for the concert, you're here for the game, whatever it is, and market to them. And that's why sports and music sponsorships are so big because it's another captive opportunity So if you're waiting for Taylor Swift to come on and there's ads playing or there's, you know, some sort of element that's there in the hallway where can try out a new car or take a photo booth branded by a brand, right, and collect their information. Like, all those opportunities are available, and they are great. So is there a place for it? Sure. It's happening and and it's increasing. And while it's less than of the true product placement that we're talking about in filmed content, it is part of an absolutely bustling experiential marketing and sponsorship business that continues to work. Oh, I'm not I'm just going a little bit further on this with product placement. There are movies that I see where they've just gone too far. Where the movie is just product placement. Some people do it well. Some people do it like it's just in your face. Like, you you the guy drives up in the camera angle on the car, super clean. It's literally, commercial at that point. So Marvel is the same way for me. It is just a merchandising product placement with story versus watching the queen's gambit and and seeing something really artfully done and seeing a little bit of product placement in the back. But is there too much? There can be too much, but the two examples that you're describing are very different, you know, strategies behind it. You know, the idea of the queen's gambit, which when it came out blew up you know, the success and popularity and increase people getting into chess. Right? So you could very much call that a very successful winning product placement strategy that no one really thought of. But at its core, they wanted to create, you know, a compelling story that would resonate with people did it beautifully. When it comes to Marvel, there's a whole universe there, and a fandom that's been going on for, you know, dozens and dozens of years and expectations that are there. So the filmmakers and and the and the partnerships team at Marble know that and are always looking for engaging ways to showcase their brand partners in exchange for interesting and dynamic brand advertising I'm continually amazed by the programs that Microsoft is doing by continuing to partner with Marvel. Into different shows and films. They just did something beautifully with the last guardians of the Galaxy movie. So I I highly recommend you you look see what they're doing across their different mediums, whether it's Xbox or search or you name it. Right? So there's an endless opportunity there with Marshall. Of the captive audience and the fandom and then knowing that another show or film is only a few months away. Right? Another by that that apple. To talk to the consumers. So I will continue to advocate for a brand. Well, it's it's in your best interest, Hal. You're a product placement agency. You'll definitely do that. But, I'm just excited. Not only hold on. Not only because it's our job, but because we wanted you successful programs that consumers will see, will like, and take action from. And even, you know, the dwindling you know, so to say, you know, love everything superhero, even with that coming down to earth a little bit, it's still a far better opportunity to partner with a Marvel or a DC film or any big blockbuster than just going at your own way and advertising to a consumer doesn't want to receive your your advertising, right? And we'll do everything they can to block it or skip it. Yeah. So what's your what's been what's been the best product placements you've seen? Best product placements ever. You know, the I'm not saying, you know, it's like saying what's your favorite movie. Yeah. But in your mind, just in your mind, what's what has the biggest impact on you from a product placement side from from watching movies or television, anything that pops out to you. You already know mine. My mind's easy. Well, you wanna start with yours for for all the audience before we we kinda do a drum roll here? I think so. Well, we'll start with you, Lisa. Oh, wow, putting me on the spot. What's my favorite movie? Not movie, but is there a product that you've seen in a movie that you're like that that resonated with you after you saw the movie you had to have the product? Yeah somewhat I remember watching a really old movie back in the day called women on top that had penelope cruz and she was a woman who loved to cook and she used these unique pans that were like cast iron and they were colorful and they were gorgeous and I went out that week high and low searching so I could get those pants because I wanted to be just like her. Okay. Okay. And she she had a convertible too. So that didn't that didn't hurt. Yeah. Mine was, was a Nicholas Kage movie. It was a Christmas movie. Trying to think of the name of it now. It should be profound to me. When I watched the movie, I wash it with my wife. She was my girlfriend at the time, and they had no money. And in the movie, he he orders a a nineteen eighty two Chateau, what was it called? Chateau Laf. And she goes, that's a two thousand dollar bottle of wine. He's like, we'll take the house wine by the glass. I ended up buying my wife a nineteen eighty two Chateau Lafchild for our first anniversary, and I still haven't. And that was the one product. I'm like, well, you know, when we, you know, when we start making money and we can afford to open up this bottle, we'll both have it still in my refrigerator, and a wine rack back behind make but I still have it. And it was it was interesting because it wasn't even in nineteen eighty two. It was just an older bottle of wine in this movie, but it has sentimental value to me because we're like, they were both trying to make it. And, I got it. I would tell you one thing. I don't wanna segue against this. One of my favorite movies is John Wick. I can't remember one product placement within John Wick, other than the Mustang thing. But Well, they're they're very big. I'd love to pick I'd love to pick your brain on that. Not not just the gun references of the manufacturers who make all those guns, but That that's another one we'll talk about. But how what what is yours? So in John White, though, don't don't sleep on the watch placement for for CarlF Uber. That's pretty prominent, and they go into the store. And that's a big one. The truth is, like, I'm doing this for twenty plus years. So I love all the good ones. So I think more recently of the things that come to mind and and what I'm very excited about is the new season of the white lotus. Because everything they've done have, you know, touched, you know, turned to gold, and it they've even created a new you know, word instead of jet setting. It's called set jetting where millennials and gen z, about fifty two percent of them according to, you know, Amex and business decider are deciding where to travel based on their favorite TV shows. So bookings for the four seasons after each season of the White Lotus are out of control. Right? People Americans wanna go travel to Paris to be like Emily, They're going to London to seek out the Harry Potter experiences in other places around the world through a game of Thrones films, New Zealand, for lord of the rings, right, has been ongoing, you know, huge tourism opportunity, but going beyond the hospitality of it all, anything in that show was a huge hit. You know, Aperol spritz featured on season two, Stales through the roof. They're sitting there on Respas, all of a sudden, spike in sales. So I love that. But if I had to say, you know, my favorite, you know, overall, Brendan, underpayment, you know, product placement, promotional opportunities. There are two that still ring true for me to this day. One you will have to have known and one you probably didn't remember and and I'll be excited to to retell you. First one is what Dodge did for the Durango with Anchorman two. Now they were not in the film, but they work very closely with Will Farrell and Adam McKay who directed it. And they didn't create one T. V. Commercial. They didn't think let's do two or three, but instead they created seventy executions where they let will go bananas on the car. Coming up with concepts. Most hit. Maybe a few of them, you know, maybe didn't. But out of the seventy, you you know, a pretty good batting of just wildly funny content promoting a Dodge Durango where up until that film, that car was on its way to extinction. Right? And instead, visits went up something like eighty percent. Right? It's got twenty or thirty million, you know, views on YouTube at a time where, you know, we weren't watching a billion hours of YouTube. Right? But more importantly, sales increased almost sixty percent, right, year over year. Just crazy numbers. Revitalizing that brand. But if you go back on YouTube and look up those and execute, like, the spots, there's someone that are just so crazy and also so funny, it it still rings true for me to do you guys remember that campaign? I do. I do. Uh-huh. As a car guy. Yeah. I know every I know every car commercial. And I know that to go intimately. Because I was working with Paramount because I had I was representing a different brand at the time, was who was looking to use that film as a waiter reinvent themselves as well. And Will said he was only gonna dress up as Ron Burgundy for one brand campaign best deal wins. And I worked with the creative agency and they came up with phenomenal spots. I can't say who the brand was, but it was and everyday brands that you definitely know, and never quite made the comeback, because we lost out because every time we made an offer for x amount for will and y amount to spend on on media, they came Dodge came right back on top and ultimately beat us out. So I was paying very close attention, to what they did. And when I saw it, I was just blown away and and my hat goes off. To to the Paramount team and to to Will and Adam and the brand, obviously. That's amazing. Of faith. And it was that kind of courage that we've seen Matel do. Right now with the Barbie movie. You know? Yep. That is not a movie that you think a brand would allow to happen. But they entrusted a brilliant filmmaker and and let her tell her story and, you know, a billion dollars later, like, you know, new life into that Barbie franchise and for better or worse, we're we're likely gonna now see, like, an uno the game movie, you know, coming right behind it and all the other stuff that they own, but that's the way it works. Right? We're in an IT world where, you know, right now I can't miss, especially coming off of Super Mario Brothers, which also did so well. Number two. Simpson's movie. So forgive me if I'm paying for something, almost back in two thousand and seven. But Yeah. They partnered with a lot of different people, but no one most more important than seven eleven where they turned several seven elevens into quickie marks and people lost their minds. They literally were selling out of donuts every day because they just changed the look of them to make them look like the donuts on the show. They put, you know, duff beer for root beer because obviously they weren't gonna sell alcohol. All it is is private label. It'll look like the stuff on the show and people went nuts. The lines around the block, right, just to get into those stores. So, you know, talking about a memorable moment and something in my, lectures and and when I did teach entertainment marketing at Emerson, it's it's I spent a lot of time on case studies like Dodge and and like this one with seven eleven in the Simpsons because creating those pop cultural moments stay with you forever and have long lasting positive effects on the bottom line of a brand's business. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Those are really two good examples. Really good. I think the the other question I have for you, Lisa, when I worked with Hal Mhmm. Very very focused while he was on set. So one of my questions is, so let's say I'm a company, Hal, and I, and I call the brand view and I get Hal. And you're on the set. They're not doing it anymore. But if you were on this is us or you're on any TV show, you're with the product constantly. And you're making sure that the that product on that set has the best possible visibility. So that's the other thing I don't think people know about product placement is that And I was really surprised with Hal, because the guy I used to use wasn't even in in in LA, but Hal being at the location, making sure the product is best represented. That that's I mean, that's part of what you do. It's not that you just get the car and you leave it up to the production team to put the car wherever it needs to be. How's on set constantly to make sure, and you correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't been on set with you, but I know you that you were on set when our cars were is you're there as an advocate for the brand. And, one thing I wanna know is answer that question, but also if you're on set and you notice that the set is missing something, Can you say, Hey, I've got this blender company, maybe we can put it over here. I'd love to know if you're that interactive on set with these guys. The answer is yes. And while we're not always allowed to be on set, when we have especially new clients who are new to the industry, there's a lot of stuff that needs to be figured out how to use it. You know, what's the brand tone? You know, we're we're supposed to be placed. I mean, sure it's it's used in the right way. So we're always advocating to be there where we can. Now, that was a lot harder to do during COVID. But thank goodness, you know, or we've moved since then and and have been doing it. I was at a David Busters just the other day for a film that we were shooting. On behalf of the brand. Right? You know, they're not gonna fly out from Dallas to be there. They they entrust us to go and do it on their behalf. And we're there like we're the brand. We're thinking through clearances of the games that they're showing that we didn't think that they would do, that they're playing the game properly, working with the team there to make sure the game works in a way in which, that works for for everyone. It's played the right way. The sounds are the same. What sounds we gotta turn down? Keeping the store open. Right? There's there's a lot that's at play there. So, yeah, I was more than happy to be there, but we would have done that anyway. Even if you weren't coming to to to meet me there too. We would have been there because again it was the first foray, and we wanted to make sure that everything was good. And whenever we can, we'll continue to do. Yeah. And I think there was another, there was another commercial, not not a commercial, but not a TV, should I think it was the fresh prince. Is that the one that you did? Yeah. So so how calls me, and this is how interesting it is, how calls and says, and I remember this explicitly because I never got this much attention before. How goes, hey, The main character is gonna sit inside the car and he's gonna smoke a cigar. Are you guys okay with that? I'm like, why wouldn't we be okay with that? But apparently, some people wouldn't be some companies wouldn't wanna be associated with smoking in the vehicle or some sort of attribute with that particular vehicle. Is that right? Yeah. So as we get involved, we're gonna go through that list of what you can and can't do with your product. What you're comfortable with. And then, obviously, there'll always be a gray area. And we'll go through it and take it as a case by case basis. And as we were getting to know each other, we were still kinda trying to figure out what can we do? What can we do? And and whatever you tell us is what we're gonna stick by. So even something that seems as innocuous as an an adult smoking a cigar in their own car. Again, we just we always gotta think about the the grander scheme of things and is that it has. And and also a vehicle that we're using for other purposes. Right? One day it's on the set of a TV show. The next day it could be at an event that you're sponsoring or a test drive for a potential customer. And, you know, you know, we've, again, always thinking of the client. These are the things that we're, we're gonna think about and, and, and due to help help protect our clients. Yeah. And I think that the other useful thing, I didn't use Hal after, because I switched to another company, and one thing I noticed that I was missing that that Hal would be doing as a good product placement. Do you want me to call you? What do you call yourself? I say product placement. What would you rather me call you? How? Entertainment marketing guy. Entertainment marketing guy. Yeah. Is if you don't have Hal ends up happening is you start getting scripts. Like, we'll do the deal. I did a deal with Netflix. And if Hal doesn't exist, then I'm relying on that production company and the vehicle wrangler. And what you get is is basically a vehicle wrangler for the production company who calls everyone, this says I need your car. All they want is your car. That's it. Here's the script. Can we have your car? And it's a very sort of interesting exchange. It's just someone saying, I want your product on set. Can you have it? That's it. And he'll send you a script. You have to read the script yourself and go. So I see the story. I see where this would come into play. Mhmm. What I like about how is that he'll do all that for you. He'll read the script. He knows the brand. He'll say, this is a good thing for the brand. And this is how we'll position it. And if there's something I don't like about my product, Hal will say don't shoot this particular side, or he'll be able to be on set to make sure that isn't exposed. That's the difference between doing it by yourself or or having, how do it for you. So I I thought that was really interesting. There's a lot. Like, you get you have to read the script to understand. So someone gets killed in the car? So is someone gonna run somebody over? Is the bad guy gonna run over, in Crosswalk nuns and and school children. Yeah. That's gonna happen. Okay. Why didn't you tell me that? So then when the movie comes out, you show. There's bodies all over our car, or they or they blow it up. And, we don't know that until later. But, That's the fun part with go on. Yeah. Yeah. So you you were lucky in that you got a full script because oftentimes you'll just get the scene what happens before the scene? What happens after the scene? What is this character? Who are they? You know, what what's going on in their life in that moment in time before and after thinking about it more holistically, and the best or least the most recent best example I can think of was on the sex and the city you know, latest version when they brought, Mr. Bigback, and they were featuring him on a Peloton bike, and they had a Peloton's doctor in there, and they thought, what a great placement? And then the guy had a hard sack and died. Well, get stuck, tanked as soon as that thing aired. Because no one had the, you know, the realization that when you get that scene, you you just accepted us back and think, oh, great. I just got the pages where he's gonna be on a Peloton. But what happens before and what happens after? And if they only ask those two questions. Let alone the the bevy of questions that we would have asked. Right? Before we got involved in that, where were we involved in it? It would have been absolutely not. You cannot show him on a Peloton bike. And we both knew if we need to, to inform that we do not. And that is, you know, when there are no circumstances, can you use our brand in that negative way? Yeah. So to be clear That rate has not recovered since? No. They have not. Good point. Yeah. So I I think this has been fantastic conversation. This isn't gonna be a one time only, how because I have a ton more questions, actually, since you were talking it more on the social media side and the Oh, I like that. Not product marketing because there there was a there was a com there was an NFL commercial that I'd watched. I'll put it online. But it is Sarah Silverman, and she's doing the Uber One commercial. And she's she's talking about Uber One and she doesn't wanna do these commercials anymore. And she hopes it goes well or she's gonna have to sell feet pics again. And then she goes, I have to go to a big toe lever dot net, and, ninety percent of the people who saw the commercial went over to that website. And she basically said, what are you doing here, you pervert? You shouldn't be here. How and I was like, that's amazing. Like, they took you from one medium to another medium. So direct off the ammunition. Love it. So, Chris, the best thing I'd ever seen that everyone immediately went over to that website, and she mocked you for being there. Like, why are you here? And it was it was crazy good. And I've never seen that before. I've never seen someone move from one medium to the next within such a short amount of time to continue that relationship on your own. Like, they didn't force you to go to that website. You went there on your own. It was crazy good. But, yeah, I I think we'll have Hal back a hundred times just to talk about product placement and marketing in general, because I I this we just touched just the tip of the iceberg, with Hal, I think, and it was it's been I wish we recorded the the hour and a half sort of set up call. Right. Because that was really when you got a good reaction from us just blowing our minds on how sophisticated product planning or product placement is. It's just it's more than anyone thinks it is, and it's more important than you think it should be, and it absolutely is one of those things that's important. And, you know, what got me, and we'll talk about it again. I love talking about the villains and and they're placed in these product placement sides, and some villains are accepted and some villains are not. And, there's plenty of villains wearing Rolex watches counting down when that building's gonna explode. And that that that seems to be okay. And only a few brands can afford to work with Daniel Craig. Yeah. Right? Oh, okay. We're gonna work with bond, but the villain's available. The villain's what ready to play. Right? Interesting. So It it was interesting that Aston Martin within that bond film on the placement side, BMW was in there And then Jagwar came in on the villain side, but it was prominent. And it it seemed that I don't know how you can have Aston co co co coexist with another brand like Aston having the villain be pretty profound in that movie, but BMW was there. I didn't think BMW should have been there. I know why there's an association, but they had no business being in there. I will say, and I'll date myself. One of the first car product placements that I saw that made me fall in love with BMW was Ronin. Okay. That was the first first movie I saw, like, that's an incredible vehicle. Ronan, you probably didn't see it, Lisa, but, Robert, you know what I'm talking about? Robert De Narrow. Yeah. Yeah. I know it was a great place. I mean, it actually reminds me of BMW films which Yes. Biggest thing in branded entertainment and still is to this day where BMW's advertising agency at the time pre YouTube said, what if we created these mini stories with prominent stars and filmmakers and allow them each to tell their own story to bring a different take in our different vehicle and they launched it as in theater advertising at the time and it blew up. They were selling them as DVDs. Right? Working with all the biggest filmmakers of the time, more wrong guy, you know, just across the board, but also starring Latan Right? And Guy Ritchie doing one. Guy Ritchie. Yeah. They went back to the well and done it two times since. It it put, you know, the driver, you know, on the map. As as a, you know, a global mobile adapter. So, you know, we could talk separately, like a whole session that we talked about that BMW films and the ramifications of that. But also we also didn't wanna talk about, like, really not only we talked about the starter product placement, but how it's evolved and come back around throughout the history. I think is very interesting, but you mentioned the BMW grown in placement for me, the mini Cooper placement in the redo of the Italian job. That increased their sales twenty two percent. It's the biggest thing that many coopers have ever been involved in. Yeah. But in we'll do another segment because I I have a bone to pick with you on on back to the future because everyone talks about Dolorian, but for a lot of people, the Toyota truck in that movie, when he opens up the garage, that that every fifteen year old boy when that movie came out wanted that Toyota lifted truck like they. They wanted the Toyota, not the Delorian, but they also wanted to create a Pepsi and put on those Nike's. Right? Oh, yeah. Well, that's that that's probably the that now that I think about is probably is the most over branded movie because that I didn't know. I remember that Nike was in there. Toyota was in there. Pepsi was definitely in there. And that sort of crossed because you had to go back to the future, there was the new Pepsi product and then you had the old one at the same time. I didn't think about that. Yeah. So I'd love to have Even just Yeah. Never mind if I'm just trying to come out with that version of the shoe that they can sell even limited quantities. It it just talk about memorable product placements as a kid you're kidding. What do you wanted those Nike? I still want them there. Yeah. That's all definitely. Behind it. Yeah. So we need to have him on. I I would love to have you on with, John Eurynday, the filmmaker, because it'd be interesting to talk about product placement with him the amount of films that he does. And then we've got this band called, Mojave Gray. I'm not blanking on the name. I I'm I'm going back to the video that I was watching from them, and it it's pretty brilliant. And I'm wondering now if product placement in other genres like music videos, has a place. And I'm sure it does. I'm sure that's not something I haven't looked at that, but I'm sure that's another medium where product placement comes into play heavily. Early working on one that that hopefully we shoot on next week. So, absolutely. Okay. Well, I'm gonna get you in touch for sure. I I I'd say anybody who wants that's even thinking about product placement. It doesn't wanna go to LinkedIn. You know, we'll put the brand the brand view on our site. We'll have a link to get to you put your information on there. I almost don't wanna do that because house I I look at how as I know a guy kinda guy. Like, I know you wanna get in that. I know a guy who can actually get you in there. He's kind of my, my Ray Donovan Donovan, but on the product marketing replacement side. But I'll happily accept that. Well, I'll let you have this six you have more success than you already have, but I think, And the other thing too, everybody we have in this podcast, Lisa, they're good people. I mean, that really, at the end of the day, we don't work with people that are doing fantastic things, but they're they're they're terrible people on the inside. So I can vouch for hal. He's a good dude. He's a grinder. I don't know that he sleeps, but I know he's on sets every time and he's watching the product. I'll I'll make sure that we amplify, the brand view how. Love having you on. I I I again, I don't think we've touched nearly as much as we wanted to with product, but, love to have you on again. Thank you for coming on. It's been another mind blow for me. And I'm on the market. So I've been doing it for twenty years. And then and then when you hear someone like Hal come on who just is just so educated on almost everything entertainment, and you're like, I had no idea. That's how it worked. I just want my I just want my car in the movie, and don't blow it up. And then I was like, well, there's more that we can do with this. So it's pretty fantastic to know how. So how I really appreciate you coming on. Fantastic time. This is fun.