Education, Empathy, and Social Justice Shaping the Future of Social Work

There are going to be setbacks. There are going to be, gaps where you feel like, hey. There's a need here. There's a resource that needs to be provided to my constituents or my clients, and, that resource is not immediately available. But that's why the social worker is there, you know, to help to expedite that process or help fill in the gaps between resource need and the community. Right? Welcome to the Apple one podcast. I'm your host, Brett Howroyd. This podcast consists of three different running series. And today, you are listening to our career paths series, where we go deep and wide into what an individual career is like. We will have honest conversations with professionals about what they do to help inform you to make a great career choice for yourself. But honestly, I reserve the right to go down whatever rabbit hole or tangent I find interesting. So let's get started with today's topic. Hello, Apple one podcast listeners. Today's episode will explore what a career in social work look looks like. I think most of us have heard the term social worker and have our immediate connotations around it, but how many of us actually know what social work is academically and practically? Today, we have just the man on the show to help us dive into that and see if this is a career path for you. Ephraim Bryant, a licensed political social worker, therapist, crisis counselor, and musical artist, but more on that later. Over seventeen years, Ephraim has served nearly every facet of social work there is. He has been a community organizer. He has done research on fair wages and discrimination in different industries. He has worked for adult day health centers helping elder elderly and disabled communities. However, the bulk of his career has been providing direct individual and family therapy to those dealing with a wide range of social and mental health issues. Currently, Ephraim is a crisis counselor, for those, dealing with severe mental health issues and emergencies and runs a small private practice helping treat clients dealing with, depression, anxiety, racial trauma, and marital conflict. He runs a nonprofit and has a budding career as a r and b and hip hop artist. The list goes on and on and on, but let me say, Efrem, welcome to the Apple one podcast, man. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Good morning. Good morning to you. And do I understand you literally just got off work? Quite literally. So, you wanna know the the the life of a of a social worker? I I guess I'm firing on all cylinders. I literally just, left one job and, you know, rushed over here to, make this meeting. And I you know? So, forgive me if I if I'm a little, I sound a little tired or what have you, but I just got off a twelve hour shift. So I'm gonna bring my best foot forward here to, you know, give whatever vital information I can provide. Awesome, man. Appreciate it very much. For the listener who's listening to this on demand, I mean, it it's pretty early Pacific time right now. So when he says a twelve hour shift, that means this is an all nighter. But, Efrem, that's why we appreciate you coming on the podcast to let people know what a career in social work is really like. So let me ask you a a first question if we can get started. How would the dictionary or, let's say, an academic person define social work? And then tell us how you define social work. What's it all about? Well, the definition the standard definition for a social worker would go something like it's defined as a profession concerned with helping individuals, families, groups, and communities to enhance their well-being and quality of life. Social workers aim to address social issues such as poverty, inequality, discrimination, and injustice, through various interventions and services. We can occupy various settings including government agencies, nonprofit orgs, schools, hospitals, and private practices. So I think that that would be the general definition, state definition for social work. My personal definition for social work might sound something like, an empathetic heart with resource with community resource connections and a lot of patience. That that would be my own personal definition. I like that. Yeah. You gotta have a heart to to to serve effectively in a field like this. You're definitely not doing this kind of work for the financial the financial benefits. You're doing it because you have a you feel like there's a higher purpose to your to your role in this world, and you wanna be an agent of change. Right on. When I was researching for this discussion, I read about micro, meso, and macro work. Can you explain that to our listeners? Okay. So micro, macro, meso. So micro level work is essentially working directly with individuals and families, individual basis. Right? This is where you'd usually see social workers providing counseling, direct, therapy and case management services, addressing, mental health needs, directly. That's the micro level. It's one on one, face to face, with your with your services. Meso level practices is, you know, is kind of treating small to medium sized groups, families, communities, organizations. That would be where you see, things like community organizers, people facilitating group therapy sessions. That kind of thing would fall under the umbrella of a meso level practice. And then for macro, which is the the big picture. Right? That's when you're dealing with all the systems that we encounter as humans. That could be that could include policy development and advocacy work, research to kind of, promote social change. So that's kind of the breakdown the the quick and fast breakdown between micro, meso, and macro. Micro is direct, one on one usually. Meso is usually group based, community organizing, and then macro level is just that. It's the large scale. It's, impacting the systems that then impact the groups that impact the individuals that you work with. Wow. So when I introduced you, I talked about a lot of the areas over seventeen years you've been a part of. Is it fair to say you've approached this from those three different levels before? You know, looking at it, I you you kind of get used to just being in this space. It's just kinda you're perpetually operating in between all three levels and but but after looking at the questions, I really got a chance to think about how many different spaces I've occupied in this in this time. And, yes, I have I have definitely, left my mark in all three levels one way or another at, throughout my my career. Is that typical or that's just something you've had the opportunity to do? Do most social workers hone in on, let's say, the micro level and stay in that lane, or is it very common that, you know, a social worker is veering between all these different levels? I would say for for the most for the most part, you're going to find social workers have operated in at least two levels, if not all all three, whether they've spent, you know, just a a brief time just learning as an intern. But for the most part in your social work career, you're going to fall within the mezzo and micro spaces, when it comes to social work. That that's where the the largest amount of that's where you have the greatest opportunity to sustain employment, you know, coming out of a graduate program. So everyone's in need of mental health services. Direct therapy is the hot thing right now. Right? So that's where you're going to find the largest, I think, the largest, population of social workers. Yeah. Yeah. And then probably, I would say second is, the meso level, where you still get to act as an advocate, possibly running some sort of, groups. So that's usually where you're gonna see folks fall. Very interesting. So let's talk about how one becomes a social worker. Do you have to get a degree to gain employment in this field? Let us know how you got into it and in general, you know, how does one get into this area. Well okay. So, generally, yes. You would need some sort of advanced degree if you want to, have a, you know, a career, sustainable career in social work, in the field of social work. That's usually at minimum a bachelor's. Most folks go on to, an advanced master's degree, so they can, you know, have a specialty area, and then, you know, really be able to make a name for themselves. But honestly, there are a lot of folks that are doing social work that may not have the advanced degree, and they may not know that they're doing that kind of work. You know, if you're advocating for your community, if you are, someone that is trying to be an agent for social justice and change, You're doing social work, you know, to be very honest with you. But the typical route is getting the bachelor's, and then getting getting a master's. And then if you really want to try to, make a living or sustain and you sustain yourself, you'll go ahead and get a license as well. You'll get licensed within your, you know, your particular state. Is that what you did? I did, follow that route. I went straight through. I went straight from undergrad into a graduate program. I didn't take any time off. And after about, you know, two years or so in the field, I began studying for for my licensing. Actually, it was more yeah. About three years. Post grad, I began studying and prepping for my licensure. Very cool. So I'm a history guy. Universities, for example, have been teaching Latin and some of these topics we know about since the fourteen hundreds. So from that perspective, I assume social work is a relatively new, you know, thing that you can study in school probably starting in the nineteen fifties. But why do you think so many people don't really know about it or or understand it in general? Because it has been a thing since the nineteen fifty. That's still a long time. You know? Yeah. I would say I would say maybe some of the reasons that, it it may not have be be as well known just how long social work has been around. It's it's, probably due to some of the misconceptions associated with what social workers do. Some people equating social work solely with child welfare, like they're the people that come and take your kid away or, you know, or making sure that no one's getting abused. And that is a big, part of what social workers do. You know, we're here to advocate for those in need, underserved and unserved populations, right? So that is a big piece of it, but because that one aspect has had a light shined on it so brightly, whether for better or for worse, I think that that can kind of overshadow, the diversity that is that that can be found within the career of a social worker. It's a really complex profession as we kind of touched on earlier, you know, identifying the micro, meso, and macro levels that one can fall into. So I think that that's some of the reason and also just visibility, you know, social workers, we're not it's not the sexy, profession, you know, so to speak. You know, it's not the the glitz and glamour, role, you know, doctor, lawyer, artist, you know, athlete. You know, folks don't it's not flashy, so there's not gonna be a lot of attention paid to it unless there's some sort of salacious situation attached to a social work event. Right? That's actually very enlightening, and I kinda exposed my own lack of knowledge in preparing for this conversation because I didn't realize whether you want to be on the ground, like, with the folks you wanna impact or if you're more of a scientist who wants to gather data and put out a paper to help make change through research with data driven, you know, policy type of stuff. There's a full gamut here, and I guess I had pigeonholed it to just one area. So, I mean, that alone kinda opens my eyes if I'm someone listening to this podcast who might wanna get involved. There's a a a wide array of attractive areas to move into. Efrem, give us an idea of a typical day, week, month, however you wanna break that down on the job for you. And keep it real because, again, the goal of, you know, the career paths series that we have at the Apple one podcast is for people to know the good, the bad, the ugly, and make good career decisions. So kinda tell us what your your your week, your month looks like, but make sure you keep it real for us. Typical. When you said typical, I I I all my my mind was already started spinning because it seems like there's always something that's atypical happening throughout my schedule. So to keep it real, man, it it, it can vary. It can vary. But, for the most part, I would say, say for say for instance today, prior to jumping on this this podcast with you, like I said, I just finished a a twelve hour graveyard shift working as a crisis counselor dealing with those suffering from depression, anxiety, suicide. So my typical, what what was it, Wednesday night or Thursday night, I'm I'm in front of a a series of computers with my headphones on, waiting for the crisis calls to come in. So I'm essentially nine one one for, the medical facility that I worked for, and that's in the nighttime. Prior to that, earlier, earlier in the day, so maybe from seven PM to seven AM, that's what I'm doing. But then from, I'll say, nine AM ten AM, ten AM to three PM, ten AM to four PM, I'm in private practice space. My private practice, Bryant Counseling and Consulting, where I'm providing, individual therapy, three days a week. So my day might start at nine, and it will not end until seven AM the next day. Now I have to say that that's not typical of everyone. I'm a little I'm a little different. Some some some call me a hustler, and that may be, you know, pretty, an appropriate title for me. So that's that's what my typical day may look like three to four days out of the week. And then the rest of the time, hopefully, I'm trying to, you know, do self care, rest, and, you know, get ready for get bored get ready for the next week. Well, based on that, I'm very aware that I am eating up at least one of your two hours of sleep right now. So going back to how we started the conversation, One show. Of course. That was really helpful, and I get it. I don't want to you gave us the good, the bad, and the ugly. I don't wanna scare people into thinking they have to be that aggressive. But No. Not at all. Let's talk about this. Are there any personality strengths that someone wants to have if they wanna sustainably be successful in social work? I would say you have to have number one, you have to have empathy. This this job does not work if you see yourself as separate from your your fellow human. Right? It requires you to see yourself as connected, because your motivation for for for doing the work is gonna come from that space. So empathy is important. Patience is important because when it comes to any sort of change, any sort of significant change you're trying to help somebody make, whether that's social, emotional, whether that's policy change, whether that's community based, work that you're trying to do, it takes time. It takes, to to kind of, you know, to use the metaphor of turning the ship. Nothing happens immediately. So you definitely need to have patience. There are going to be setbacks. There are going to be gaps where you feel like, hey, there is a need here. There's a resource that needs to be provided to my constituents or my clients and, that resource is not immediately available. But that's why the social worker is there, you know, to help to expedite that process or help fill in the gaps between resource need and the community. Right? So I think empathy, patience, and you also need to have a good sense of self, and you need to have your own outlets. You need to have your own outlets separate from this profession because it is a very demanding career. It is a very demanding, profession. So I would say that those are some of the things that I, think a therapist or or, excuse me, a social worker coming into this field, would need. And, you know, I'll throw this in as well, mentorship. Having a mentor, someone to help guide you and walk you through, the the seeable and unforeseeable events and experiences that will help define your your social work experience. You need to have someone you can ask questions, someone you can be real with about, man, this this job is really kicking my butt or man, I don't know where to go to find this resource, or I'm having a I'm having trouble connecting with this particular client. How did you do it? It's always good to have, someone who's in the trenches with you or someone that has been in the trenches to kind of help guide you so that you don't feel like you're out there by yourself. Wow. That makes a lot of sense. So who employs social workers? Is it nonprofits, or is it health care companies? Or who is it that, you know, you you've you've gone through the process, you've got the degree. How do you find employment? I know there's some people who do it for free. Right? Like you said, some people don't even realize they're doing social work even if they're not officially a social worker. But for someone who does want to earn a living doing this, where where does that even get started? Well, there's some there's some some good places you can always start. The NASW website, the national the National Association of Social Workers website is always a good place to start, when you're trying to look for career opportunities, I mean, in your state, and based on the licensure that you that you have, that's a good place to start. County your county website is also a good place to to start. But even before that, the hope is that by the time you've gotten your degree, whether it's a bachelor's or it's a master's, you have become more informed about what path you want to take in this broad, social work spectrum. So by the time you've gotten your mat your bachelor's or your master's, one would hope that you know, hey. My space my bread and butter is education. So then you would begin looking at areas where you can become an education advocate or a site social worker, which is something that I did for a time as well working with the school districts. Right? And so if that's the route you you feel is going to be your your strong point, that would be an avenue you would start with. Or if you realize, hey. Working with the youth really isn't my thing. I wanna get into public policy. Right? So I would say in addition to those avenues, you'd also want to look into your internships. Because typically, if you've done an advanced degree, you've you're you will have had an internship, in a in a particular space. And that usually helps you follow a pipeline into your particular profession. Right? So I had I had interns when I was working for the school district, and those those, I was gonna say kids, but those interns, had a soft spot for working with kids. So it was easier for them to then join the school district because there was already a track record there with them. Right? So those are just some of the ways you can, you know, begin your career path. That makes a lot of sense. Let me ask you one more question about social work. How has the practice evolved since you've got started seventeen years ago, and where do you see it going? Or do you see it evolving at all? I would say well, let me let me back up a bit. I'll say when I got into social work, I kind of fell into it a bit. I was a it was my senior year undergrad, and I was actually getting getting ready to apply for a PhD program in community psychology. I'd missed a deadline, and I didn't know exactly what air what direction I wanted to go in. I know I wanted to help people. I know I wanted to use my voice to help folks that look like me, and my professor educated me on this as an as a particular as a a viable career for me. Now, if I really look back, my first experience with social work is with my family. My aunt was a social worker, and she would actually bring me cheap on her her take her take, your kids to work day. She would bring me along on some of her her visits. So those experiences already kind of informed my my passion. So by the time I was a senior in college and kinda came the the idea of being a social worker was presented to me again, I was like, oh, yeah. This kind of fits me. This kind of fits who I am and how I wanna how I wanna show up in in the world. So I would say to answer your question about how things have changed, I would say that it has become more I don't wanna say sensationalized, but the idea of social work and mental health have become more at the forefront of the the cultural conversation, which I think is a good thing. It's it's not as much in the background fifties, but may not be as well well known to the general public. I think now with the increase in mental health issues, affecting unserved and underserved populations and vulnerable populations. I think that that has allowed social work to take a a bigger piece of the the conversation. The the the public's, attention is there. So I think that that's the biggest change that I've seen. So, Efrem, thank you for all that wisdom on your your career, and, I think a lot of people are gonna get a lot of out get a lot out of that. But I know you as a bit of a renaissance man and, and a polymath. So love logic. Maybe you didn't think you'd hear that name today. Your alter ego on social media and Spotify, it has a growing following. How do you pull all this off? Like, does does a career in social work naturally lend itself to give you time to also develop your music career or you're just not sleeping, period? Like, how how do you get all this done, man? Listen, man. You want me to keep it real? You asked me to keep it real. It it is not a direct. Social work does not directly lend itself to a career in music. You have to have a passion for it just like you have to have a passion for, being a social worker. And I guess you can say my passion extends to both spaces. So I am not always sleeping. I need to, I need to do better with that, but, no. The long and short of it is, no. It does not lend itself automatically to to being, being an artist, but I love it. I have been an artist, independent artist for almost as long as I've been a a therapist in some form or another. And I'm just grateful that things have started to take off when they have. It's been a great outlet for me because social work is such a demanding part of you a a a demanding role for me to carry. I think that being an, an artist, being able to create is my coping skill, like, my biggest self care outlet. And in social work, in mental health, we're always encouraging folks to have good, self care practices, good coping coping skills and regimens so that you can maintain a balance when stress comes because stress hits us all. It's a part of life. And obviously social work is a very it can be a very stressful job. So being able to take off the the cape and put on the the Clark Kent or, I guess, take off the Clark Kent and put on the Superman, suit and create, sing, write, and just be free in that in that space has been, man, the biggest blessing. It it it really has helped to sustain, and, stave off the burnout because burnout is a real thing. Yeah. That's really cool. I mean, I was questioning whether I should bring up Love Logic because if there's, by chance, a Love Logic fan who's watching this podcast or listening to this podcast, are they gonna realize, like, oh my god. Santa Claus is actually my dad. You know? But, how can someone listen to you? And and then we'll and then we'll we'll, close. But how can someone hear more about Love Logic if they wanna hear your music? You mentioned fans potential fans, that, might be listening and not knowing the different roles that I that I'm carrying. That's actually been one of the bigger, challenges and opportunities that I'm take trying to take advantage of, at this at this point in my life, the integration of Efrem. Right? For so for for a long time, I've tried to walk a fine line and keep one aspect of myself solely for the the, quote, unquote, professional world and then another side of myself solely for the entertainment and creative world. But, you know, at this stage in my life, I think it's important to have as much integration as possible. And I think that can be helpful to other people that may have multiple career interests, but may be afraid, oh, people might think, I'm doing too much, or people might think I'm corny, or, I'm too I'm too old, to, try to chase certain dreams. Right? I think that choosing to integrate all parts of myself, in a more public way, not only helps me to, become more comfortable and confident in these spaces, but my hope is that it also inspires other people to be their true authentic self, in whatever space they're occupying. Right? So from from the from the office to to the streets to, you know, to from the courtroom to the clubs, If you can be your authentic self and maneuver in all those spaces and still feel comfortable, I think that that is I think that would be a, a a goal for any human. Right? So I think that that's been a big blessing. So being Love Logic, being Efren, they're all the same person, and they're all, you know, they're all a part of what makes me, in my experience so special. Well, I think it's brave and a beautiful thing that you, that you share that and that you share your gifts with people, whether that's, like we said, the micro social work and therapy or whether it's giving people something they need through art. Efrem, thank you so much for being on the show today. Any last things you wanna mention or share with that person listening who might want to grow up to be you one day? Wow. That's very a humbling question, and a big question. My my my my final words would be, don't be like me. Be like you and be loud about it. Be authentically who you are. I think that that's going to take you as far as you want to go. I would say that if you want to get into the field of social work, do it for the right reasons, have your why down, and understand that this is this is a career about love. You know, if I I really, you know, would encapsulate it, it really is a, a career for those that love and want to help others feel loved. And and how that shows up, whether it's therapy, whether it's getting housing, whether it's, social justice issues, it all centers around that that important, idea. So do it from a space of love, and I don't think you can go wrong. Powerful message. Hey. Get some sleep, man. But it was so good to see you. I look forward to the next time we link up. Thank you, Efraim. My pleasure. Take care.