The Next Data Center Bottleneck Isn’t Power or Cooling — It’s People: The Data Center Workforce

This is straight straight straight out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another episode of straight out Crumpton. I am Greg Crumpton, your host for the next little while. Hoping everybody is having a great day. I this has been such a busy day. I I wound up taking a young man. I had taken to school this morning. My truck was due for maintenance, so I had to get home, do some stuff. It's been crazy, but I've I've been all day looking forward to this. And and I'm recording this in the evening, which is a little bit unusual, but schedule wise, it worked out. So today, I've got a a what I consider an industry friend, although we've never met, one on one. Jay Kalsam is joining us today. Jay, interesting dude. He's got he he he's as busy as I am. He's got more jobs than a Jamaican. So, so the first thing, his he represents Impact CX, and he's commissioning and customer manager there, which is a great job. I mean, I'm such a commissioning junkie because I understand the difference between commissioning and start up, and that's a whole another, probably another podcast. But, he also, founded co founded Method Experts, and and I'm dying to hear more about that. So he's got a couple of things. He he does some mission critical infrastructure training and teaching. He's a subject matter expert at all things data center. Jay, finally, here we are. Welcome to the show, brother. Yeah. Thanks for the time, man. It's it's fun to have people on with us that that are exuberant and joyful about the industry they're in. I know you are. Yeah. But before we dive into the industry, get give us just a little sample, and and I always like to quote my my friend Mitch up in Canada, Mitch Joel, when he starts his interviews, he says, okay. Tell us who you are and, basically, what are you doing here? So Yeah. So my really long elevator speech is I I grew up in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa. I don't belong to be sitting where I'm at. You know, I in high school, I was faced with the choice, what am I gonna do when I'm growing up? And it was either be a union electrician or be a high school teacher. And what was gonna make that decision for me was how how do I do in football or wrestling? If I get a scholarship, I'll go be a teacher. And lo and behold, I botched my senior year of state wrestling, and I turned out to be an electrician. Right? Followed my oldest brother and then my older brother into the trades, local twenty two IBEW Omaha, Nebraska, and really just started there. That's where my data center career started in two thousand eight. They actually helped build one of Google's first purpose built data centers. And, like, now with the industry the way it is, it's insane to look back to two thousand eight because that was a monolithic data center fifteen weeks. Right? And it like, so secretive. If you said Google inside the fence, he got kicked. Even though there is a Google sign out front, it was like, if you didn't refer to it as CVI, you got kicked off the job. Right? But, anyway, like, doing that job, it's like, man, that's what I wanna do when I grow up. And I was thinking to be one of the the union electricians that I was working right alongside the Googlers. I'm like, I I'm gonna be that guy. Right? Well, you know, two thousand ten, I turned out of the trade and just worked right up. That's kinda when two thousand eight hit the Midwest. And my brand new wife is like, hey. Like, what what's going on with your job? And I'm like, well, I just, you know, got laid off. It's gonna be three years until I get a job. That's what the job outlook is looking. There she is. Like, we're not doing. So we dragged up, moved to Northwest Oklahoma because I was duly married. Right? And she's like, you're gonna find a job somewhere. And I worked in a manufacturing plant as a plant electrician in Fairview, Oklahoma, Bramco. And then after about a year, found out that Northwest Oklahoma out by the Panhandle was not for us, moved back up to Iowa. Laura's like, apply for this job. I looked at it, and I'm like, I'm even qualified for this. I'm just an electrician. She is like, you never know until you just apply for it. Well, I applied for an interview for it. Turns out it was one of Microsoft's first purpose built data centers, d m one in Des Moines, Iowa. And in my interview, they're like, do you know what a data center is? I'm like, yeah. I built one for Google over in Townsend Plus. They're like, oh, you work with forty volts and this and that and the other. I'm like, yeah. Well, I came in at the very bottom of the barrel as a maintenance makeshift technician, and I was there for a little less than a year. And, I mean, long story short, I got fired because I was twenty four years old and an idiot. And We've all been after well, right. Then after that, I worked for an electrician for a few months, but then I got hired on as a maintenance and maintenance shift technician at CBRE for our Wells Fargo data center and spent three years there. Made really great friends in the process, and eventually got recruited by Google out of Ebbets. And I was like, this is the dream. Like, this is who I wanted to work for. You know, at the time, Google was number one for companies to work for in the world. It's like, why would and they were building a truly monolithic at the time. And so I interviewed for it. That process was really uplifting and exhilarating. I hired on with Google in twenty fifteen, moved over to Council Bluffs, Iowa on that huge site, and I spent four years there. And that's where I really cut my teeth in the industry. I mean, cut my teeth as a man, an adult, a a worker. Right? Learning so much about products or project management, new product innovation. I was actually on the Google's first liquid cooling project back in twenty seventeen, twenty eight. And it was literally the engineers reached out to us, said, hey. You can use our pilot site. We need you to pilot this. We're gonna ship to the site. You guys are gonna figure out how to book it up, turn it on, start it up, commission it, and then write the service manual. So we did. That took us about a year. Then I went to Taiwan, trained them, and I'm about to do it. And after then the project was wrapping up, I transferred out to Northern Virginia because not very many people in all of our rural data centers in Iowa, Oklahoma, you know, wherever, didn't wanna move to Northern Virginia. You know, Loudoun County is a fairly expensive place compared to Council Bluffs, Iowa or prior to Now what what year did you go to Ashford area? About twenty nineteen. Okay. So twenty nineteen it was May twenty nineteen is when me and my wife landed there, and then we started right in building three Google data centers. And I was one of the lead electrical technicians, and I was there embedded in like, the way Google did it was really cool. They would take the end operations technicians, embed embed them in the construction team and use them as project managers and CXAs. So I literally looked in every piece of switchgear I was ultimately going to, and I had sign off authority. I was the lead of IST for zone two on two of the buildings. So at the end of it, like, I could do real world training. Like, hey, guys. Don't open up this cabinet because, you know, there's a live four sixteen in there. How do you know? Because I nearly got killed, and they're during commissioning. Right? Because I got no roundup. The hard way. Bang it right. So from there, ended my time with Google in twenty twenty two. Whoop. I think, yes. Then I went to a dyed aligned data centers. My next goal on my bucket list was be a facility manager and is joke around about that's where I ripped out all my hair because that was the like, one of the hardest jobs I'd ever had. Right? And I and, like, the people were great. I still have a lot of people over there that I look up to. That was just a tough building. At the time, it was the fastest to market center in history, and you you don't build one that fast without having a skeleton in the closet. Right? And not only if it's the I had a lot of life stuff. I'd just gone through multiple brain surgeries, and so I was like, life is way too short. But after that, I went to my leaders and said, My I'm taking a pivot in life. I'm gonna be focused on me. I wanna go to work for a remote job. Here's somebody for a remote job. They said, yes. I actually moved to Hawaii and worked remote for our main data centers for six months. And it was kinda funny because my VP of risk and reliability was I thought, man, I I I expected to fire you in your first month, but you went there and you did stuff. And what I did was rewrite a lot of our runbook, how we actually operate our. Because as a facility manager, I ripped my hair out because now the process and procedures matched up with what we actually did. So Yeah. I rewrote right. So I rewrote our operational playbook or, like, this is our our bible of how we operate and then develop training to back it. Then we moved back to Iowa because my midlife crisis was over. Reality, it sunk in. Right? And transitioning real life stuff, you know, I was looking at potentially getting divorced, and I just like, hey. I need to pull everything in. I went and worked for a nursing home for six months as a director of facilities. Still the best job I've ever had as far as tackling problems and just the reward. Having the residents that you work for just say thank you for seeing my problem no matter how small it was. Changing out an air filter at no cost or just taking, you know, Peggy's, you know, complaint about the lights are too bright seriously. Right? Like, that was a really rewarding job, but then my wife said, you need to get back into the industry and make money again. Then from there, I went and worked for QTS as I boil it down to a regional subject matter expert. I was a critical environment engineer, and I was this weird person between operations and construction. Not really commissioning, but kinda commissioning, but more operationally focused, but also on the construction side, which just led to a lot of really cool opportunities and a lot of really cool conversations that you get to have. And, I mean, we could unpack how all of that has gone too. Like, that's who my current customer is, is QTX at my day job. But I went to QTS. I was a regional director for them for six months. That was just not a job. That was I was that was me. And so when Impact CX said, hey. We wanna have a conversation. I'm like, I love the people. A hundred percent, that's why I'm there, is the people. My boss, my boss's boss, and and, like, he had signed me in. But yeah. As far as, like, with that, me and Antonio, my other cofounder of Method Experts, we started that because we're deep into the industry at the time. I was a critical environment engineer at QTS. He was a manager at CorSci. It's like, there's real problems that need to be solved. And everybody's getting too involved with pride around it. Like, this is not my problem or finger pointing. It's just like, how do we solve the real tangible problems in, like, big ones? And that's, like, the thing from an entrepreneurial standpoint. You can never dream too big As long as, like, you have kind of, like, big dreams and big thoughts and you surround yourself with the right people, you can solve almost anything. And during that time, like, I really felt like the mission that was written on my art was a self reflection of who I am. Right? Like, I grew up in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa. There's no way that, like, I grew up with dual alcoholic parents. I mean, statistically speaking, where I should still be is in that same place in Iowa sitting on the same barstool as my dad. I shouldn't be on a place where I'm living in Atlanta, Georgia running six telescopes. Right? So as I Oh, no. And being a guest on straight out in Crumpton. Yeah. Course. Get up. Come on. So, like, as I've reflected a lot over my life in the last few months, like, the the mission that's written on my part is developing pathways into opportunities. Right? There is so much work out there. And as much as people wanna say this generation is lazy, they don't wanna work, everybody wants the same thing. Everybody wants a fair shake in a light. They wanna see themselves make their own way. Right? So how do we bridge that gap between where someone's at and where do they wanna go? A lot of times it's just putting the right two people in the room, maybe a little bit of information. So, like, the things that I do, all of the different hats I wear to I am a commissioning customer manager at Impact CX, so I manage the relationship between Impact CX and our client. And people manage a little bit. Methane experts. I'm a cofounder. There's two pillars there. The pillar that I manage is data center training, upskilling, crosskilling. Then Ascend the it's a website. I'm developing the data center curriculum, getting ready to sign another agreement with another data another training website, and then I'm the data center subject matter expert for a nonprofit called Opportunity Run. Dexter Enmans is the founder of that partnering with them. Oh, yeah. Like, Dexter is some he I should use him to sit with us one day on the podcast. I I would say so. Dexter is a guy you just turn him with, and he'll just go. Well, I met him, Jay, about a year ago through Lauren Hilton at a seven by twenty four meeting. Lauren had met him, and she's like, you gotta meet this dude. And and he's in Atlanta too, if I recall. So yeah. We should do that. We'll hook up and get him get him scheduled if he would be so kind. I met Antonio through Nomad Futurist and then co met him or co mingled with him again with Carrie Getz on some stuff she's working on on the apprenticeship side. So it's a it's a small world, as you know, because we're we're all pulling for the same thing, and there's a gabillion little grassroots movements out there with what you guys are doing on the on the for profit side, what you're doing on the nonprofit side, you know, similar for me. I I do both as well. One to make the house payment and one to try to backfill the industry. But, you know, there there's a lot of people like you and I that are running these parallel paths trying to keep the the spirit, and and I think there's a spirit that is amongst data center people. Yep. Very gritty and grindy, and if we need to go thirty six hours straight, we're going to for we don't wanna do it a lot, but if if the poop is in the fan, we're gonna be in there cleaning the fan Yep. Until it's clean. And I I think that's awesome. You mentioned a while ago too when you were talking about the next gen or or the generation z that we're dealing with, and I just did a podcast. I was a guest of Sarah Nacastro, and we were talking about that same thing, that every generation is those darn kids. And, you know, your generation was, my generation was, I'm sure my parents' generation was, it's what we got, man. It's like, you you can wish and piss and moan and all of that all you want to about how it was back in my day. Well, guess what? It ain't your day. Not anymore. It's a new day. We we have to, you know, Heartbreak Ridge, one of my favorite movies, Adapt, Adjust, and Overcome. And that's it's just so I I don't wanna make it sound overly simple, but you gotta train people. You gotta tell them what you need done. You gotta show them how to do it, and then you gotta follow that SOP that you write of how to do it and make sure we're we're you know, we got our guardrails off because people get dead and companies lose money when we don't do things the right way. So I appreciate the grind, and and I appreciate what you guys are are doing. Just the the you know, like I said, the spirit, the passion in doing it is really cool. Yeah. You know, and it I I had heard one of my friends, Chris Dove, if you've never met him, you should have him on. He's like, people aren't afraid to do jobs. People are afraid to be in a dead end job. Right? He's like, if you can show them the pathway to success, people are gonna take it. Right? Like, so me and Dexter last weekend at Databank, we we had a get together, right, for a bunch of people that are wanting to improve themselves. And in that room, we just had people tell their stories like me. Like, I I came from the middle of a cornfield, and I one came up as an electrician, and, like, I just got done running six data centers. You know? That was, you know, fifteen years worth of experience, but, you know, like, that's attainable. And then you had another guy in the room who was honestly, I look up to him as much as he called me boss. I looked up to him. He was a a side actor down in Fayetteville, Georgia, you know, at the Marvel studio for a few years. And then he got into the data center industry. And, like, when I when he came to me and say, Jay, I want an opportunity. Like, knife hand, Jay, I want an opportunity, and I just watched him. His interview wasn't an interview. It was how much do you make right now? This much. What would you do to make this much? He's like, anything you tell me. And, like, after watching him, I knew that that was true and that he meant it. It's like, you're like, I know you don't know everything that you need to know, but I know you're going to learn. Right? There's so many people out there with that attitude. You give them the opportunity, they'll run with it. Yeah. You know, there over the years, you probably have had this conversation too. When you meet people, you say they've got it. And it's hard to define and it is hard to write down the attributes of it. But Yeah. That's why, to me, the one on one time is so important when you're interviewing because you could typically tell if they have it or not. Yeah. And and it is a beautiful thing when you spot it and you want it to join you. Yep. And it's hard to write a an Indeed ad for somebody that has it because It's everywhere. You can hit all the bullet points you're looking for, whether it be, you know, commission accreditation, whatever you want. You can you can hit all the you can check all the boxes. There's not a box for it. And you can interview two people, same skills on paper, and you go, okay. This is not even a competition. She's got it, and this guy is a dud. And It's so funny, but but this goes back to people. Yeah. You're talking about people. And in in the further we go into AI and the further we become digitized as a industry and as a people, the more people will matter because Yeah. Hundred percent. You can't replace the the time yeah. We were talking before we hit record about coffee and having coffee with people. You can't artificially create that. I mean, I can have a cup of coffee right here on my desk, and you can have a cup of coffee, But there's something missing about that one on one exchange that you simply don't get over Zoom or over Teams Yeah. Like you do in person. So give me this we're gonna play a quiz. Give a proper definition of commissioning so that our audience who is listening that is not familiar with that term, what what is what is commissioning in your mind and and maybe the proper definition and then the real life definition? Oh, the proper definition, I'm not quite sure. Verification that operation is per design. Right? What that what that means in a real sense that the piece of equipment that was built, installed, and started up actually works the way that it's intended to. So by and I was doing a mentoring session with one of my buddies. He has a bunch of guys that are eager for opportunity, and they were asking about commissioning. I'm like, okay. What this really looks like, right, is you have a piece of switchgear that has an ATS with a generator backing it up. Right? So level three commissioning, which is the contractor saying commissioning. Right? Like, what they see is failure of utility, then ATS sends start signal to generator start. I'm like, okay. Here's the difference between level three and level four commissioning. Level four commissioning, the the actual owner of the equipment says, not only on a fail of utility, a fail of utility for greater than ten seconds. That's when after ten seconds, it sends a start signal to the ATS. The ATS sends a start tick signal to the generator, and the generator starts up within five seconds. They're like, why does that matter? I'm like, because everything down the line depends. Because if just think about this. On the loss of utility, the power flickers. Do you want that generator coming off? Well, no. What if it flickers a couple of times within a couple of seconds and never does it again? Do you want the generator coming off? No. So a utility loss of greater than ten seconds. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. So why don't you just want it to send a start signal to the generator? I don't know. Well, maybe it's because you wanna make sure the generator actually starts and kicks on and and assumes a load. So you don't just say, oh, it's you know? It actually starts, takes the load. That's what commissioning is. It's not just saying, hey. On a lots of utility, it sends a start signal. On a lots of utility, it sets a start signal and sends a start signal to the generator. The generator actually asks to start up, actually has to take the load and accept the load and run on load. They're like, oh, it's like because at the end of the day, when you're actually operating the data center, all those systems are supposed to work that way. You verify that before you actually get the building. Beautiful. I my I mean, I'm not obviously a commissioning expert. My definition when I'm telling people what it means for me is that the system actually does what it's engineered and designed to do. That's my homeboy definition. Yeah. And there it's funny because we talk about, you know, five seconds of outage and people are like, well, that's no big deal. It it's so it's so funny, the degree of impact five seconds or thirty seconds makes in people's lives depending on which side of that they're on. You know? If they're if you're running a gas station, it's not a big deal. So it's always about to to have folks that may be listening get a sense of how deep in the weeds you get to ensure systems are are performing well. Yeah. Alright. So as as you're doing your your multi job juggling and, you know, you have to be really good at it, it I'll sometimes I feel like, Jay, I I got a chainsaw, a pit bull, and an alligator, and I'm juggling those three things. And they're all No worries. Good and and easy and safe if you catch them properly. But if you don't catch them properly, you can have a problem. As you as you go through this and and and you guys are getting your feet up under you and and taken off and running with your start up with with what you're doing with Antonio, how do you guys see yourselves growing? What what does the company look like, and what what is the mission long term? This this scariest thing that I hear Antonio say, and I really I nominate him as CEO because he's truly the visionary. Right? He's ten thousand employees in ten years, and it's just like like, and he's the visionary to do it. There's times where it's like just, I'm gonna be your COO. Tell me what you need done. Right? Like and he is so forward looking. And, I mean, what does that look like today? Like, right, is make going out and developing partnerships, developing curriculum for, you know, websites, developing curriculum and, you know, performing curriculum for a nonprofit. That that's what it looks like today. And like I told you, like, this morning, me and Antonio sat down with my boss my boss's boss and told him about the well, it so the pillar that Antonio is currently running with, right, is developing a authorized service provider enablement program for direct liquid cooling. If you if you're listening and you don't know what direct liquid cooling is, I understand you're not in the data center industry. But with AI to cool down chips, right, you need to actually take water up to the GPUs to cool them sufficiently because air is not big enough. And that was one of the programs I'd worked on at Google. Right? So just going through that new product innovation, there's a lot of CDU manufacturers that are really great engineers, but they don't know how a data center really works or how data center operations work. So that's where we come in to bridge that gap. And what we're doing is creating training for service providers or the OEMs and the end data center providers so everybody's got the information from one one single point of truth. Right? Because as you know, like, in this world, they you've got the tribal knowledge. You've got the OEM, and then you've got what the the real world nuts and bolts of what it is, and we're trying to bring all those things together. Right? So we are getting ready to sign an agreement with an OEM, which is mildly, once again, terrifying. It's like you just go out and have these conversations, and one day someone says yes. And you're like, oh, Mel. A guy with four and k. Go ahead. Go ahead. No. I've I mean, it's such a a freaking relevant topic because every OEM, and I I I say every, and I I really think it's every. I may have one exception I could put in there, are so hungry to have a field service arm because they can't figure out how to do it themselves. And on my day job at ServiceLogic, you know, we do some of that OEM support in some different verticals. But in the data center vertical, what you guys are working on is such a ripe opportunity. I don't think ten thousand people in ten years is anywhere close to what you'll be, because I I was looking at some numbers today, Jay, that, bring back the trades. They published a pretty big piece today on different positions available nationally. So you you may have ten thousand people in thirty six months if you do this thing right because it is ripe for the entrepreneur to come in that can do this and wants to do it, and there's a need and that's I mean, that's how you solve problems. There's gotta be a problem, and then you gotta figure out the solution to how to solve the problem, and you guys are doing that. And I I see you guys just really blossoming in that in that, you know, like, just a rich environment. Well and one of the interesting things is we're we're not service guys. We're not contractors. Like, we we came from data center operations. So that's really like, we're coming at it from a client perspective. Right? And in this game across every, you know, vertical within the data center, it's a a manufacturer goes out, finds a service provider, they sign a ten year contract that they can only use this service provider. As the end client, that doesn't work because you like, I I might have x brand of chillers sitting in my data center, and I signed an agreement where this only this service provider can come out and work on my chillers. Well, the last two dudes that they sent out here at midnight were RTU guys. Like, hey. Like, you you need a a pool of people to pull from, not to mention there's not enough people. So what we're actually trying to do is pull down these contractual walls that build these silos of knowledge, and we're trying to, like, bring this melting pot of knowledge together because there's so much work. Like and it's weird. Work is walking out on these jobs. You see x mechanical contractor and y mechanical contractor working side by side, and you're like, aren't you two competitors? Like, yeah. But the work's gotta get done. Right? Yeah. So, like, DevOps works on the big jobs. Why doesn't it work for actual installation, startup, service? So so that's what we're really trying to do is bring as many boots into the field and ensure as much quality as possible for everybody along. Well, what what's astounding to a lot of people that I speak with, they don't understand that we don't have any, there there's no standard. There's no certification on what a liquid cooling technician is. Yeah. And, I mean, OEM proprietary information removed just the foundational knowledge of how a liquid cooling data center works. If you could just build to that level and then train on the nuance of each OEM, we would be so far ahead. That's what we're trying to do. I'm working on some training units, like physical hand on for some of the local unions around. We're working on building those. Because for, you know, forty four years I've been in this industry, everybody has told me, don't touch the black box. That's the data center guy. And now, suddenly, I'm supposed to run tubing to the black box with with p g twenty five in it? No. Thank you. I'm good. So here's the next thing. And and, you know, we we could have a whole another conversational cooling because it's something that I I think about and love. We're we're going refrigerant, pump two phase Yeah. Which is a whole another thing because we just got comfortable with water. We're not even comfortable with fluid yet. We're not? In in thirty six months, we're gonna be having to go to pump refrigerant. Now we got a whole another thing. How how much refrigerant can you pump into a a, you know, a combined space of a data center? So, you guys are on to something really good, Jay, and I'm I'm proud to see you and Antonio diving into it. And what's really cool also is that your day job people understand that the the the life of an employee who has the grit and grind and hustle to make stuff happen cannot be siloed into this is what you do and how dare you try to do anything else because you can enhance each other's businesses by bringing these talents together and sharing the word. Yeah. And while I was in the interviewing process, like, I had a lot of people that are like, man, I wanna hire you just for, like, your passion and what you're doing. Right? And it's like, well, me and, you know, my passion project, my my sidekick is me. Right? And, like, you this needs to be in my very contract, which I applaud Antonio that, like, to say it flat out that he had the balls just to, like, as he was applying, say, no. You get, like, you will sign this into my contract. Right? And Upchurch did. And Spencer Huber, awesome dude. Love him. And he saw it. And as I went through my interviews, they're like, well, you know, IT retention. And it's like, do you want more work or not? Like, in one of my interviews, I flat out told, like, the the president of this mechanical contractor. I'm like, hey, guys. I get it. Like, I this is really awesome. I wanna be a part of the team. I know where I'm going. The question is, do you wanna come along with? Right? Yeah. And a Raj not. Right. And it was kinda cool because he stood up. He was like, well, just let me know what you wanna do. Do you wanna relocate? Wanna stay? And, like, that all fell through anyway, but just earning that confidence in where I'm going, my boss, Steve Carroll, awesome dude. I, like, just love him. He was like, yep. This is an iron sharpening iron. Like, he's like, I've worked with a guy that was a **** my golf pro and watch golf on the weekends. So you work on the weekends. Who cares? Like, why wouldn't I wanna bring you on? So, yeah, Steve Carroll, Ray Miller, they're cool dudes. I love working with them. Like, they they saw the benefit of it. Antonio's boss, Spencer Hubert, saw it too. So, yeah, it's really cool that I they can go and do this stuff, and it's been iron sharpening iron situation. I I really think it's a changing of the guard mentality wise because and I can I can only speak for mechanical? We have been Neanderthals try dragging our knuckles around for a long time. Yeah. And it's refreshing. Like, at my company, we have a lot of new, presidents that are coming in that maybe have been second, at a company. Maybe they were, you know, executive VP or what have you. As our legacy presidents are retiring, it's fun to see this this youth generation youth because they're forty five, so I can say that. But it's fun to see the new I I I don't wanna call it a mentality, but just a fresh breath of air coming in and saying, dude, we're not the mechanical company of nineteen eighty five. We have to be flexible. We have to work. To your point, there's gonna be three, mechanical contractors on the job. You got hall a, you got hall b, and you got hall c. Cool. Let's go get it. That kind of thinking to me is what's gonna lead our industry mechanically into the future of where we're headed, and it's enhanced by what you guys are are working on and method of how do we do it better, how do we do it consistently, because if if you're working I mean, look at what QTS is building down in Fayetteville, Georgia. That campus is gonna be, I don't know, six million square feet or whatever it's gonna be when they're done with it. You've gotta have two gigs. How much? One point two gigs. Wow. So point being, you've gotta have consistency and you have to have continuity in how that how and I'm I'll just pick that name. There pick any name you want. You have to have continuity and you have to have consistency in how you run the operations. And by what you guys are doing, by offering this foundational knowledge, regardless of what color jersey you're wearing, you still gotta perform to this standard. I I just I love it. I love the name too, Method Experts. It is about the methodology, and I I just think that's that's a cool name y'all came up with. So congrats. Yeah. So the the original idea, like, for a graphic, I wanted an m and then the leg of the m to come down, so it was like the perks prescription, you know, Rx. And, like but, like, we couldn't quite get it to work out right, and we're in line. It was really cool. But I I I like how, like, an alternate. Like, I can tell you, like, subconsciously, it's like, oh, I I prefer just saying a mess because method experts to me, it like, I know where it came from, and it's based off of methods of procedure. Right? Like, the method that we go out and operate as professionals and just being an expert in that. But, like, real talk, it's like, I would I was really self conscious about it, but everyone's like, I've actually had two people reach out and said, I founded my business off of your guys' method experts, your m x. Few people. And I'm like, that's interesting. So Yeah. But yeah, man. I appreciate it. We're we're trying to break molds. Not not trying to break good ones, trying to break bad ones that don't scale. No. I think that that's good. It's just like people who are naysayers. You know, be a naysayer. Just go do it somewhere else. Let's let's get let's get fresh. Let's get let's get the thing percolating like it should. So alright. So, as we start to coast downhill here, tell us where people can learn more about you, learn more about Impact CX, more about Method Experts. Give us give us your your diary, and if you would, your Social Security number. I I'll give you my first pet and my mom's maiden name while I'm at it. But no. So Impact CX, we're a Solace O'Brien company. You can find us at impact c x dot net. Easy place. You can absolutely find me on LinkedIn, j kalson at LinkedIn. I'm on there quite a bit because of the entrepreneurial side and then also, like, Impact CX ing networking with my clientele and stuff. The Methodexperts were also on LinkedIn. We we have a YouTube channel, which I am trying to pour some data center training content onto. Our method expert website at method experts dot com. It is way out of date because we're focused on creating, like, real things. So but so you have LinkedIn, YouTube, and then we have a website that Impact CX, like, it's also Brian company. So all of the regular socials and stuff like that. But other than that, feel free. Like, I'm sure that yeah. Just reach out to me on LinkedIn. That's the easiest way, and then we can set up a conversation if you're interested. Yeah. That's cool, man. I'm sure people are going to be because there's a lot of people who have needs that are unfulfilled or unfulfilled at the moment that have like, their boss said, okay. Where are we at with this? And they don't have a good answer. So hopefully, that will help. I mean, we only have twenty seven billion viewers. So, I mean, you're liable to get a call or two out of that many. So That's a terrifying prospect. But you know what? The last year, like, it's been funny, like, the amount of stuff. It's like, oh, that's terrifying. Like, when our first manufacturer is like, we wanna fly you out to California. We're like like, what what what do we do? It's like, we just go do it now. It's like, we've never actually done it before. It's like, like, we'll just go do it. You know? Yeah. You should see a pre company. Right. And I especially when you're you're walking side by side with your brothers because Brandon Davis is like he's one of our cofounders as well. He's just we always say that he's the mad scientist that we keep in the basement, and we just turn him loose when when we need to. Right? But, like, walking side by side with those guys, it's like, sure. Let let's walk into fire. You know? Not a problem. We'll figure it out. Right? But, yeah, I mean, let's go ahead and line up another conversation, especially as we dive into the CDUs. And just like you said, like, it's terrifying enough with, you know, whether it's DI or Roadie Water or p g twenty five. And as we're looking at the Vera Rubin ships that are coming, and it's gonna have to be toothpaste and that the bucket of wires that's gonna come with that, like, there is never been an opportunity for young people to dive into an industry Unusual. Learn so little, and then become subject matter experts so fast. And with this go with it. Yeah. And it's so I I don't wanna dumb us down, but you can learn this with with We can do a sport. Buckle down a little bit and you'll have it. It's not we're not splitting atoms here. We're moving heat. It's not that difficult. I so as we've gone out and made complete asses of ourselves, you know, with a lot of mechanical contractors with our Frost Forge initiative, I like and I have to explain to these guys there because, like like you said, man, that's black box. We can't do that now. Yeah. And it's like, hey. They taught an electrician how to do this. And you get the guys all laughing. Right? And they it's like, it it's we're not splitting atoms. It's not rocket surgery. You know? Like, it's actually the rest of these bars. That's the low bars. Electricity can do it. Right. It's so easy an electrician can do it. He's got two guys behind you telling him what to do. He can do it. I love it. I love it. Well, Jay, man, I I really appreciate you taking time with us this afternoon and walking through everything you got going on at Impact CX as well as Method and just all the good stuff, man. It's a great time to be in this industry. It really is. It's fun. Yep. I've been in it for forty four years. What's funny to me is that we're back to liquid cooling because I worked on liquid cooling with IBM back in the late '80s, so Yep. Full full circle for me and it's such a hoot. But I'm so honored to get to walk alongside guys like you that are out there doing it day to day and making it happen. I feel like this is a bad mental picture for people, so prepare yourself. But I'm the cheerleader. So I'm just gonna leave it right there. But no. I appreciate it. Really do appreciate you taking time. You guys, y'all go check Jay out. And just to to be clear, his last name is k a l l s e n, Jay Kalsen. So check him out. Jay, thanks so much for taking time with us today. It's been a blast. Maybe we can do a a follow-up and see how you guys are progressing. Folks, thank you all for sticking with us. I hope you got something out of this and at least a new contact to go check out. As always, greg crumpton dot com. Check that out for podcast. You can buy the books. Go to greg crumpton dot com or deep knowledge. Got two books out there now. So go check those out. See what you think about them, and we will circle back with you guys later. For Greg Crompton, for Jake Allison, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Straight Out of Crompton. Appreciate it, everyone.