Amy Al-Katib’s Unique Journey in HVAC and Mission-Critical Industries

This is this is straight straight straight out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of straight out of Crumpton. I'm Gabby Barr, and I am joined by Mr. Greg Crumpton, Greg are you doing today? Gabby, I'm doing great. I have been gone from home for almost a month, and I get home. And lo and behold, the gremlins have settled into my laptop. So, working working through all the usual technical hoop this morning, but really, it's excited to have our guest today. So lady that I have followed for a while now. She is germane to a lot of things. In my professional life, HVAC, mission critical, data centers, people, all that good stuff. So really excited to have her on board and to get to, to dissect her a bit, see what's going on with miss Amy. So us a little bit what you know about her, and then we'll let her tell her story. Absolutely. Well, I am excited to introduce Amy Alcatib, she is the editor in chief of Mission Critical Magazine. Amy, how are you doing today? I am doing wonderful. I am in New England and we're having a nice seventy degree day at the end of October. And, you know, I believe I may have been a lizard in a past life because, I can never get enough sunshine and heat. So I am welcoming this day into my life very much. That is odd because I just got back from a road trip crazy enough. I left my house October fifth, went to Maine, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Vermont, made my way through Ohio over to Louisville, Kentucky back through Tennessee and now back to the Carolinas. So we had phenomenal weather a couple of weeks ago when we were up your way. So I definitely appreciate the lizard mind the outlook on it anyway. So well, look, we we always try to find out a little bit about you. So tell us a little bit about your story, what you do, how you got here, how in the world you wound up in the wacky world of mission critical and HVAC? That's a a long and random story. So I will try to, sum it up the best I can, but, you know, I graduated from college with a degree in journalism in two thousand and eight. So it was like dead center of the recession and nobody was hiring writers. You could write for free. I ended up working in hotels. I got a job as a front desk agent, and I got promoted through the years. And it was a really great job for a while, but one day I realized I I really wasn't happy, and I always wanted to do journalism, and it was hard for me to look for another job while I had one. And it was so demanding. You know, it took up so much of my time. So I quit my job without having another job and it was scary. Most people told me, like, what an idiot I was. And, you know, I had, like, about two supporters and, you know, several moments of weakness where I I was like, did I make the wrong choice? You know, because it took me a while to find a job, but I ended up at ACHR Noon. And I thought when I started there, I would just work there to get some experience as a journalist, and then I would leave go somewhere better because it was like, who wants to write about HVAC? Not me. That was the answer. But when I started working there and learning about HVAC, I'm a nerd heart. I love learning. And there's a lot that goes into it, and I also loved the company, so I stayed, and I was offered the promotion at Mission Critical, and that was also scary. I didn't really know anything about the data center industry. I thought I did actually know some stuff. I realized once I started doing it, but in the beginning, I didn't think that I did. But I didn't want to let fear hold me back. So, I took it and here I am. I'm so excited to be on this podcast because I've known he's Greg has said he's been following me for some years, but I have also been following him for some years ever since I started working at the news in twenty sixteen. And I remember hearing about this podcast straight out of Crumpton, and I thought, what a cool guy? Because I love a plan words like nobody's business. So when when I come across people who like, I know that you have a fun personality just by like seeing the name of your podcast. I just wanna let you know that I'm very excited that you invited me to be here. So thank you. Well, it's it's definitely my pleasure, Amy. We, you know, had a a couple of chances to talk in real life, but mostly it's from, you know, I I think I've gained a lot of insight from reading your editorial stuff and just kind of, you know, I just I feel like I know you a little bit. I know that's kinda crazy to say, but It's because I blabber, you know, and I do it in my writing too in my editorial. So I I digress. So, probably, I've told you story. It's about myself. Well, they they've been good ones. I I think your company is is cool, you know, for of all because I've known of the magazine at the, ACR side of the house forever when I was a technician way back when. And then I got to meet Mike Murphy and so the people there, you know, herb and Kyle and and those folks over the years. And it's just a it's a good group. It's just always fun when you get to real life talk to people that you read about. There's always more to the story as you know. That's my play on journalism. Humor. But it no. It's really it's it's a great group of people, I think, in the industry. I think that's what kind of attracts are are maybe hooks people once they dabble into the HVACs or the mission critical side of the house arena? Like this podcast is is the basis of our podcast is people. It is really about the people in the industries that we serve. You know, there there is probably the same with with freaking brain surgeon community. I don't know. People that call out around the topic and ours happens to be HVAC in mission critical. The freaking people in this industry are incredible. I had the chance this week to have about fifty guests huddled up in Louisville, Kentucky for a safety summit. For our company. And it's just so refreshing when you get to be around good people for a few days. It kinda renews your belief in humanity for lack of a a better word. And then I don't know. I'm just rambling, but it I think it's good people, and and I'm glad you're part of that circle. Oh, I definitely agree. You know, the HVAC industry is is a little bit bigger in one sense of the word than the mission critical Right? Like, there's more people in it. So when you go to conferences for HVAC, they're just are bigger, and HVAC is everywhere while mission critical and and data centers are becoming everywhere. It's it's not like, you know, in homes and stuff like it is with HVACs. So coming to mission critical, it's a little bit like smaller, more intimate, I'd say, and and everybody is excited. So everybody wants to talk about what they're doing and, you know, educate people, and there's a lot of questions to be asked for someone who's new in this industry or any industry, right? Because they're filled with acronyms and, you know, just particular jargon that people don't know if they're outside. So I've never been made to feel stupid for asking question. So I asked anything that I don't know what that means. You know, nobody is like acting like I don't belong in the industry. It's like an opportunity for them to share someone with their knowledge. And, you know, I've actually built friendships with people who I who I started out as, you know, journalist and PR rep or something like that. You know, like, I've taken vacations to go visit people who I have an email relationship with, but it's, you know, developed into something more because as you said, it is it's just an industry or, you know, and both both of the industries, I guess if we look at them separately, filled with great people who are also magnificently smart Yeah. Well, sir, I carry a lot of that same belief. You know, for me, being able to be part of the HVAC and the data center world, really it it is really cool because, you know, some people play both sides of that coin like I do, but it's two totally different minds And I love the mindset of the mission critical crowd because it's all about uptime for Cision, five nines, and all that good stuff. And then you flip flop over to the mechanical world where the two overlap is, you know, in in infrastructure. It's just been good to be able to be with a lot of good people. To your point about acronyms and what have you, my part of my job, I feel like is to make the complex part of air conditioning and the complex part of heat rejection understandable for anyone. And, you know, it's pretty simple. I get down to brass tacks, and the goal of cooling a data center is to get the heat out of the data center that's created by the computers out into the free world outside. And, you know, there's a couple different ways to do that through water or refrigerant or air, but, or or usually a combination of the three. Just just break stuff down to where people understand it. And I I think that we would all be better. Everybody would take just a pause and and try to do that. Especially like I mentioned brain surgeons while they go. You know, you go to a doctor and they seems like they talk over your head, whether they intentionally do it or not. They do. So my I'm just trying to always break it down into common terms that I can understand. You know, I've I've got my wife is a non mechanical person. So I always use her as a like, a little guinea pig, and if I'm trying to explain something and she gets it, then I know I'm talking to, you know, common language. Something I work on. That's the ultimate goal of journalism. So so I relate to you on that. I think even for the highly technical people, that communicating the processes or the technical aspects of it to people who are, you know, spurts in the field and who are very familiar with us in advance. Hearing it in a basic way changes perspective and, you know, it opens up a path for innovation because a lot of times people get stuck in, focusing on where they are now. Right? So, like, you think about the piece of equipment and exactly what it does now and all of the features it does now, and you're trying to enhance that. But sometimes, when you just think about the basic equipment that started, you think about enhancing that in different ways than it has already been enhanced. And so maybe you forego some of the things that are already existing on the newer versions, but you have this new unique feature that serves a purpose today that we didn't need, you know, ten years ago or whatever when the previous enhanced were made. So the getting back to basics is, you know, a cliche term because it's an important thing for everybody to do because you get caught up and you don't realize it if, you know, you can't see everything in your mind. So you're only focus you can only see what you're focusing on right now. And so you don't realize how far away you've gotten from the basic until you come back there. Yeah. I find myself doing that in conversations a lot. Like, I'm nine rabbit holes down from where started. I don't forgot who said this, but maybe Ben Franklin or one of those one of those smart cats in our past, but basically, if you can't explain it in simple terms. You don't know the topic well enough. I don't I don't remember some some similar. Yeah. I don't remember who said that, but, yeah, I have similar things, like if you can't explain it to a kindergartner or, you know, stuff like versions of that. But I agree. I think we've talked about it and I'll hear four, but Johnny Ives, the the master creator at Apple for years and years. When they were developing the iPad, he would take iPad, iteration of the day home, he played with it and and tweaked on the design of the iPad until his two year old could play a movie it without instruction. When when you look at someone like that, like Johnny Obs and and it's kind of a Frank Lloyd right kind of dude in my mind of setting a how I love Frank Lloyd, an architect of my heart. It is somebody who is foundational of what architecture means, you know, and for me, I think of Johnny Obs and the creation of iPhone and the iPad. I'm not a huge apple person, but I just like his drive to perfection and how you make useful devices more useful, but, you know, think about it. You give it to two year old and you come back and they're watching a Barney movie or whatever, the, yeah, Barney's probably dated, but Gabby. The day to day. Way cool thing for me, but Alright. So, alright. So tell us a little bit about what and you and I, we we spoke just a brief moment before we started recording about what you're currently doing. Give us a little idea of what you're doing and you kinda have a dual, simplistic life going on as far as your your creative journalism piece. What what are you doing these days? Well, I am doing a lot of things. Journalistically, you're right. I am a dual role. So I am editor in chief of mission critical, as Gabrielle said, and I've been doing that for a few years now, since twenty nineteen. Recently in the last couple months promoted to be editor in chief of engineered systems as well. It HVAC magazine written for engineers by engineers is the tagline, and I'm a big fan of it. Well, it's simple and tells you exactly what we do. I'm doing that in my journalism life, but at the same time I'm also earning my master's degree from New York University the in cybersecurity. So, you know, a lot goes into that learning coding, just, you know, learning, actually, like learning like hacking techniques and about like different vulnerabilities that exist and network set up, you know, all of it, like the architecture and everything. I also took the CNET Training Program a few years ago to become a certified data center and design professional. I hold that qualification for life, but my certification has to be renewed every three years. So that is, I have to complete that by the end of November. So I'm down to the wire here. I got a month So I have that going on as well. I am earning my pilot's license in my what I like to call free time. I know all of my requirements completed. I just have to take the test. I just need to find some time to study and take the test. And then, I'll have my way which is really exciting. So that's a bit of what I have. I also have a social life believe it or not. I knew about some of that. But, Jesus, Louis. I didn't know about the cyber and I didn't know about the pilot's license thing. Both both of those are super inter things. Are you gonna be a black hat hacker or a white hat hacker? Oh, white hat baby. The start of every class, I mean, like, it's the fun, like, it's the most, like, un welcoming. Welcome to every class. Every class start because I'm doing it remotely. Every class starts with like a white screen and big red font that's like, warning. If you use the skills that we teach you in this class in an unethical way, we will testify against you in court. You will go to jail. You know, it's like it's every class. And then when the class starts and you have like your first webinar, the professor is like, I just wanna go over this, you know, and they do it again. So I am just by nature anyway. I could never be an actual hacker. I don't like doing things that harm people. But yeah, I I'm I have fun, like, you know, investigating and, like, find like searching for this. It's like a treasure hunt when you're being hired to find vulnerabilities. I think I would like that too. I I suck at computer in general, you know, I know enough to get by, obviously, for my the the exploits of the morning would would disprove my theory that I know what I'm doing. So I'll go with that. A friend of mine, actually, he works at service logic. He is our cyber security guru. He's had a a really cool passed, and he's worked for some government agencies with three letters and what have you. But I just find that really interesting. And It's such a freaking important time, you know, in cyber security because every day, man, I get hammered with spam, and then half, are actually one third because I'm measuring it. One third is actually fishing attempt. So And that's just only, like, you know, part of what's going on. That's just, like, targeted at individuals. What what do you wanna do with that, Amy? Your goal? Is it strictly for learning? Or you do you, desire to go to work for, like, in in what is an MI five over in England or something? To be a special agent. What what's your what's your goal? So I would like to get experience in, like, digital forensics aspect of it, you know, like doing investigations for companies and or whoever, you know, just being hired to see what happened on a computer. But the reason that I want to do that is ultimately because I feel like a lot of people get an unfair trial in in all cases, but like murder cases, especially. Oftentimes, like, I hear people talk about when they go to jury duty. Right? Everybody is talking about the ways that you can get out of jury who ends up being on the jury mostly uneducated people or highly opinionated people who like want they don't even need to hear the case and they've already made up their mind. Right? What happens is like once people see something as possible, it's hard for them to see that anything else is possible. How many times have you been standing in a room where you've seen something? And you think like, wow, if I didn't see that, I wouldn't believe it. Right? Why? Because it seems un impossible. But you know it's possible because you saw it. So but if you don't see it, you never believe that seemingly impossible things are possible. And I believe everything is possible. I also have like a very curious mind and I just think about, like, random situations. So I think what happens a lot of times, and I I sometimes I think it's on purpose and malicious, and a lot of times I think it's not. Together people decide who is guilty of the crime and that is what they're trying to prove. They're not really trying to solve the crime They're trying to prove that this particular person is guilty and they hire experts and they come and they use big words and they talk about why this like they prove that this is possible that this person did this. They don't prove everything that's possible. Right? Like, or they don't talk about that there's other possibilities. So because I have the journalism background, like, you know, like you were alluding to earlier about break things down into layman's terms for people. I can take a lot of these really complicated topics that most people won't understand and explain it to them and explain, like, why that might prove that this particular thing did happen this way, but also enlighten them to the fact that there are other possibilities. That's my ultimate goal. It's a long term goal because I can't be hired as an expert witness until I have some expertise. You know, I just want to I just wanna make sure that people are getting a fair trial because that is one of the pillars of our country, and I don't think it's always happening. And I would hate to be in jail for a murder that I did not commit. Yeah. That I I was gonna say it's easy to, to make opinions until you're sitting on the ugly side of the bars. Well, cool. That is awesome. That's a great goal. I mean, really, outside of professional, it's just a It's just a good human trait you have there. Here's the other wacky one. Tell us about being a pilot because in my younger life before I was fifty nine, which I am now. I often thought about getting my policy license. I was busy running the company. You know, I was in the prime And I'm like, I just never did it. But I've got this crazy buddy of mine, Bill North, who runs, North Park Innovations. They're they're the guys that do the eye connect stuff for training and all things HVACI connect us. But Bill's like and and Bill is older than I am. He's like, you're not too old more. I'm gonna get your license. Looking back now, I realize I've always been very fascinated by airplanes, but I didn't re like, being a pilot was never really a thought that I had. And I think it I just believed that was a job for other people for whatever reason. Right? Like, I didn't ever think I would be a pilot, so I never wanted the thought never occurred to me to be a pilot. But, you know, I when I was a kid, you could go to the airport and walk through the airport with people and you could watch the plane take off. And my dad, you know, he's from Iraq and when I was five, he went to visit his family and we went to see him off and, like, I that was fascinating to me watching the plane go in the air and knowing that, like, you knew somebody in it. And then I remember seeing Wayne's world and they were sitting on top of the hood of the car and they're watching the the planes at the airport. And I thought, how cool would it be to be that close to a plane and still thought, you know, it would never be possible. And this is why I believe anything is possible because I thought so many things were impossible when I was younger that now are and so, like, the answer is anything is possible. But for people who don't believe that, like, I don't know how many times you need to hear it, but here's one more time. So in school, we had to be like as, you know, a celebrity. We had do a celebrity report where we dressed up as the per like, I was Amelia Airhart for my report. And so, you know, anyway like it was a thought that in my older life I started having it would be really cool to like fly a plane and and I just, like you said, I didn't have time at the moment. I didn't have the money. Like, whatever, you know, there was always like an excuse to not do it because it was like only because I wanted to. Right? There was no life plan with it. So I bought myself for my birthday. I always buy myself a gift I bought myself a flight, like a one hour, you know, scenic flight. And then a couple years later for my birthday, I got myself a tattoo of that plane that I flew. When I posted it on Facebook, my buddy commented and he said, is that a Piper archer? And I said yes, but why do you know that? And he said, oh, I had I fly, a cessna, I take lessons, but during maintenance, I had to fly a pipe archer for about a month. And this was right after I moved to New England and everything here is smaller than Michigan. You know, everything's closer. Like, you know, like, you have so much more time in a day here because you don't spend it in a car or waiting in a line or whatever. And so there's an airport about fifteen minutes away. They offer lessons, and I told them and take me flying with them that I would, you know, get the information when we went, and that's what I did. It's amazing. Like, you even, Greg, if you don't wanna go through and get, like, your license and everything, just go fly. Like, go take some lessons and fly because, like, it's a different experience than, like, not I mean, I guess anything new that you do is a different Right? But it's just it's not similar to anything else that like you can do. And if you do get your license, like, you know, part of the requirement before you get your license is you do have to fly slow load. You have to prove that you can fly the plane yourself. They're not gonna give you a license if you've always been in the plane with an instructor because they don't actually know that you flew like you could be bribing someone or whatever. And being in a plane alone, wow. That is like it's like if you got to experience dying without dying You know, it's just like it's something that you're never gonna be able to do unless you do it and it is wild and I had probably one thousand four hundred and forty thoughts running through my brain simultaneously. One of them was like Amelia earhart did this and like another one was like you don't actually have to lift the plane off the ground. You can just taxi the runway and come back and one of them was like, I can't die today because it's the same day that my mom died and my family would be so mad at me. And, you know, just like so many thing, but I and then I was like, you know what? My instructor would not send me to do this if he didn't believe in me. And if he believes in me, why don't I believe in myself? And so I did it. Yeah. It's so it's so cool. Like I hope you do it, and please email me and tell me about it. I'm gonna I'm gonna fly out there and get you. What are you talking about? Email? Now, See, my crazy self so two two quick questions. How much does it cost to get I mean, what are we talking about investment wise? Ten grand, twenty grand? So, I mean, it really depends on your learning and where you are. Right? But I'd say an average is about like two twenty five to like two seventy five an hour for the plane and an instructor. You only require forty hours to get your license but in those forty hours, you have to complete all of the requirements. So ten in those hours have to be solo. You have to do a certain amount of night hour. You know, whatever. It took me a while to be comfortable landing because I had an original instructor who ended up getting a job and he left so I switched instructors but this was like probably a year in. I'd say I had eighty hours probably around that time. He I never understood like as to student and teacher, we didn't but I didn't know that because I never had a flight instructor before. Right? So I didn't have anything to compare it to. I thought it was like my deficit like I wasn't catching on but as soon as I started flying with this new instructor, he just you know, ask me what do I struggle with and I told him before we even got in the plane, he was able to explain it to me in a way that I could understand. And so I made a lot of advancements like, you know, with him, but I have about a hundred and twenty hours. So I have like three times the amount of hours you need. So I've spent about like, you know, twenty five thousand dollars probably, but if you pay upfront for the program and you do it in like, you know, the minimum amount of hours You could do it for probably as well as eight grand, ten grand. To me, that is such an investment because to your point, if if you thought about it a lot and you wanna do it, at the end of your life, ten grand's gonna be squat. You know, you're like, how many cool moments could I have I mean, currently, I don't think about the money that I spent on it. No. That's fair. Because I love it so much, you know. So if it if you don't love it, then, yeah, like, it's two. It's it's an expensive hobby if you don't love it. I love every second of it. I know people that spend more than that on golf in a year. So So, you know, it's like I do they always joke with me there and say I should do like aerobatic flying and stuff because I like I like all the things that most people are scared, you know, because you have to do certain things like you have to stall the plane and recover and you have to do emergency landing drills and so, you know, they have to know that you know how to react to situations. So you have to create these situations and air and recover, and people don't like it, but like, I love it. Yeah. So they always say like the things that scares everybody are, you know, the things that I look forward to, but it's every second in the plane. I am happy and like, even if I'm in a very bad mood or, like, whatever something is bothering me before and I'm kind of like, I don't even feel like flying, you know, then I'm like, no, I'm just gonna go. Like, instantly, when I get there, it's like, man, I'm so glad that I didn't cancel the flight. You know, I just, like, I just feel better in the plane. Well, we all need that space whether it's on the ground or in a room reading or whatever. And I'm glad I'm glad you found yours. Because, alright. So I'm gonna keep you updated on my flight ID. We are running up on our hour because I screwed around with my electronic problems I apologize for that. But this has been so cool, Amy. I'm I'm just thrilled that you took time to join us. I'd love getting to know you a little bit more But if people wanna read about some of the stuff you're working on, what's the best way to to follow along with you in real life journalistically. You know, just, I guess subscribing to either of the magazines or both. So on w w w dot mission critical magazine dot com is where you find all my mission critical content, my editorials that you were talking about, which It's funny, you know, because I always I struggle with those because it's like I can talk about anything. Right? So I never know what to pick. But people email me a lot, like, you know, commenting on on things that I said in my editorial and and it's funny because a lot of times I write them I write them thinking like, oh, whatever. Nobody's gonna read it anyway. Right? But people do read them and give me feedback or you know, comment on them, which is encouraging, I guess. And so you can find those, you know, there's a navigation bar that's under columns. I am writing on the edge. For engineered systems, it's w w w dot e s magazine dot com. I don't have much content on there yet because I've only been there for, you know, like a month or two, but it will populate mechanical moments is my column there. So I don't post a lot of my work on my, like, personal LinkedIn or Facebook just because, you know, there are rules and just because I want be worrying if I'm violating something. I just never I never post work stuff on my personal social media. But yeah, so I always have my stuff in my column at least. And then I do write, you know, feature articles. I haven't written one yet for engineer systems, but I do write some technical stuff you know, you can always email me too. My email is on the website. I love hearing from readers, even if you feel like it isn't, you know, a valuable statement or question. I value them all, so definitely anybody who's listening, feel free to reach out to me in any of those ways on social to website or email. You know, one thing I hope by doing this podcast is that in mission critical and HVAC both, industries are suffering from a labor shortage. I think a lot of people don't see a place for themselves in these industries because they don't they're not interested in a mechanical things or they're not interested in technical things and, you know, computer and whatever. But, you know, hopefully from this conversation, people will realize like, I have a lot of interest. I only told you about a few things. You know, my in my past, I've done several other things. And, you know, I went to school I have so many certifications. I'm a forever student. I will continue to go to school after I get my master's for something at some point. There's a place for me. And I didn't think that there was going to be one so and I'm very happy here. Like, even when I found my place, I thought I wasn't gonna like it. And I was so wrong. So so it just goes back to the point that anything is possible. And so for people who are in the industry listening, because that who's gonna be listening, right? Like, it's not just like random people. But when you know of people who would be a good candidate for the industry or someone who's just like lost in general, you know, and doesn't know what they're gonna do or just anybody, right? It doesn't matter. Let them listen to, to this podcast and other podcasts with people similar to me because I'm not the only person in this industry who didn't grow up taken apart mechanical things and putting them back together. That's really well. So, Amy, you know, my passion if you follow along with what I do is recruiting people for the skilled trades and just trying to build a way to perpetuate our industry, bring new folks into it. And especially young ladies, And that's why I'm so thrilled when y'all join. The call is to give the the lady's perspective on the industry and you don't have to be a mechanic, you know, to your point, you can report on it, you can write about it, you can connect with people, and just share the mission So thank you for what you do in that, and thank you for those words because it's it's good. And, you know, nobody can appreciate HVAC until you don't have it. And then it's a whole another deal. Well, look, thank you so much, for taking time with us. I look forward. I guess I'll probably See you in January in Chicago. Well, thank you so much. Like I said, I I have been a a fan at least of the title of your podcast since I heard it. And, you know, as you and I have gotten to get you know, to know each other over the years. You're a great resource. You are, you know, definitely one of the wonderful people in the in three that you were speaking of earlier and and you know, I am I'm honored to be on your podcast and I I think it was, a good time for me, so I I hope it wasn't a disappointment for you. Well, I'd love to take you to dinner and get you a a cup of coffee at at the minimum and catch up a little bit in person. So until then, we'll we'll definitely will do that. So while gabby, quiet as mouse bar today, sitting there smiling. It looks like we got another beauty in the book here. Thank you, Amy. Again, for for coming on and talking to us and telling us about, you know, your story and all the really cool and crazy things that that you do in, you know, your free time quote on quote, as well as, you know, just in your professional life. It's been really interesting and really cool to hear a story and, you know, know that you can if you wanna do it, you can You can do it. Doesn't matter what it is. And that's really inspiring. So I'm thank you, and I really appreciate you coming on and and sharing your story. It's been really fun getting to hear it. And as for everyone else, thank you for joining us for another episode of straight out of Chrompton. For more episodes like this, be sure to subscribe through Apple or Spotify podcasts And don't forget to check out greg crumpton dot com for all of your Greg crumpton content. Straight. Freate out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton.