Oh welcome to gossip about gossip. Powered by Hedera Hashgraph. In each episode, we'll cut through the hype of blockchain promises and explore real world examples of organizations creating the next generation of decentralized applications, which will bring trust back to the internet for us all. Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of gossip about gossip. My name is Zenobia Gottschalk and I am the SVP of communications at SeaWorld's labs working to grow the Hedera ecosystem. I am joined by Ravi jagannathan, who is the co-founder of Kripke. Hi, Ravi, how are you doing? Wonderful how are you doing today? Good, Thank you so much. So, Ravi, tell us a little bit about the company and what you guys do. Yeah, I'm a founder and CEO of a company called group C technology. Group C technology is a blockchain technology company. We started in 2015. Prior to that, we were very deep into cryptography related technology. So from 2015, we have been actively engaged in making the digital transaction and information trustworthy, whether it is enterprise or any individuals or consumers, we want to make that the transaction or information in the digital world trustworthy, reliable and also verifiable. So that's what our objective has been. We have been doing pretty well with a lot of large corporates and enterprises. We are supporting them in building multiple platforms and a recent platform is on the sustainability side called carbon four program. Very interesting. So tell us a little bit more about that program. There's a lot of conversation about what it means to be sustainable. That has a very different meaning for a lot of different people in a lot of different companies. What does that mean to you and to your customers? Yeah, I think one thing everybody knows is know the world should be a pleasant one for all the living things. So that's what we ideally expect. But unfortunately in the busy world and the digital world, you know, with innovations happening all over, things went wrong in the past. I would say 40, 50 years. So we don't it's only a dream, right? Having the green sustainability world is very, very know, it stays as a dream. But there are a lot of actions that are being taken by a lot of philanthropic and good organizations coming forward to build a lot of sustainability programs to offset all the challenges that is being created to the environment, maybe excess emission and excess carbon or GHG emissions, all the stuff that needs to be offset. So these are all primary issues that is creating a lot of challenges to this Mother Earth. Now, I think a lot of things have happening now. Our program is primarily to make sure all these sustainability programs are reasonably recognized for the value that they are generating. That is getting compromised because there is no good technology, like a trustworthy technology, like a blockchain technology. So we are bringing that into our DLT platform, which we call it as a carbon poor program in this platform. And the data comes in, then that becomes a trustworthy data. When the data and information is trustworthy, then your underlying asset that you are going to pool is also becoming highly trustworthy. Then that demand for its what the value that it deserves. So that's in nutshell, that's a program or a platform that we are building now. How did you learn about hedera? We have been since 2015. I was telling you, we have been working with multiple protocols, multiple platforms to support our enterprise customers. And at some point in time we felt there needs to be a good cost energy and the scale efficient platform. So all, all together was very difficult for us to find a protocol. So we were doing a lot of internal research and then internal evaluation. Finally, we found that Hedera we went through almost nine months process internally. Since I said that we are cryptography specialists, we had to go to a lot of different areas of the technology to evaluate what is the right technology that can give us cost, energy and also the scale efficiency. Finally, we ended up with Hedera in 2019. We did that evaluation. In 2020, we started working with Hedera. I'm glad to hear someone who has gone through that and taken a look at a lot of different chains to hear that. Can you tell us a little bit more about the solution and how the buildout has been going since we spoke about hedera? The reason why we wanted to have an energy efficient protocol is because if the underlying protocol is not energy efficient, then if you try to build a workflow on top of that protocol to bring any sustainability benefits, say, carbon credit, that carbon credit is meant to offset some emission programs. So if our platform is going to consume so much of energy, then the credit gets to offset even within our platform. So that should not be the case. That's why we went with the Hedera kind of a protocol. Now, as I was mentioning, our objective is to make sure that we are able to get the data from the right source, which is authentic, and also the getting the data when the events are happening, that is that real time. It is more a granular level data can come into the system and making sure this data once that is coming into the system that is available for all the stakeholders in the system before a carbon credit is recognized. It could be verified or it could be. There are multiple participants involved to make sure that the carbon credit is worthy and also it should be recognized as per the policy and methodologies. We want to make sure that all these things are captured in a workflow. And finally, when you tokenize the carbon credit, the token should represent the true value of the carbon credit. I'm not talking about the economic value, which is probably is determined by the market, but at least people who see that they will know that the data came from the right source, certain information related to the geographical information they lack long timestamp and whether the information came from the right. So for example, we use a lot of IoT innovative technologies that can sign any transaction before it is spread into this platform. So finally, when it is tokenized and also in the Hedera net, it is a confirmation and endorsement that this transaction is not changed and nobody is going to change it or that confirmation is also available. And the beauty of the thing is that external parties can go and verify that in our public system so they don't have to come to our platform or something like that because it's available in Mainnet and mirror network of Hedera people can verify the authenticity of the token. So what we are trying to do with we are trying to help the underlying sustainability projects are programs to bring that information and then take get the benefit of this platform. So that their credit asset or carbon asset that they are going to bring in is sufficiently recognized. And also because it is verifiable, there is a good amount of trust that anybody wants to buy the token and offset they can rely on. So this is in a nutshell what our platform is about. We are building on because Hedera has got an open source platform workflow framework called the guardian. So we are connecting with Guardian so that there is no we don't have to reinvent the wheel. And what we are trying to do is our common core is a framework that consists of talent, that is carbon talent, people with sufficient experience about the carbon market and how sustainability projects are generating carbon credits. So that is one side. And the other side is this process, which should be standard process for managing the scale, whether it is a verifier coming in. So the processes have to be in place connecting the methodology to policy to the underlying carbon credit. So the process is one site on this technology platform, which is powerful engine that connects all these to this is what our platform is about. It sounds quite comprehensive and it gives that visibility to a market that has been hard for enterprises to demonstrate provably demonstrates. Right as you've gone through this process, if you were to share with other developers who are building applications on the Hedera network any lessons learned, things you would definitely do again, things you would do differently? There are definitely there are good lessons. I would say a lot of lessons. A good lessons are very important to probably the developers and other community members to understand, because when we talk about blockchain as a technology. And when we talk about DLT as a technology, if you want to if you build any platform on top of it, most important aspect is affordability point because you can because it's a distributed ledger. So you, you, you kind of keep blocks forever. For example, you do a transaction today that is getting recorded and it stays forever in the block. That means the cost could be cost of structure could be out of your control at some point in time if you don't plan it well, if you don't design it right. That is one important aspect. So the next important aspect is the scale. When you want to scale maybe about thousands of members coming into the system, when they do that transaction, then it has to be properly architected. Proper API modules and the APA approaches are very essential to make sure in the distributed world that scale is managed. I think Hedera would say we have a very nicely modularized protocol which is driven by your continuous services, token service, smartcard services, filings. So all these services are kind of available in your APA format, so you don't have to end up directly connecting to the protocol, try to reinvent the wheel time and again. That will lead up to a lot of errors and all those challenges. So this is 1. Fantastic work that we will be able to make use of those modularized approach of Hedera to build our platform. So these things are given. Now we have to think about how to design your workflow, how to design your, your, the underlying the distributed ledger governance model, all those things want to have in mind. Then it is easy for you to connect with this kind of ready APIs that are available in Hedera to build your platform. That is one. And the second thing is, yeah, I think we are talking about the crypto world here because so end of the day, x4 is a currency that is used for doing a transaction, even though the transaction cost is denominated or rather it is in a sense, it's always intent. It's not like a number of it's more convert that into more and then you can pay that way. Your cost is under your control. The cost is it is predictable. It's not like our price is going to determine your cost. Your cost is predictable. But still, the challenge here is, is the enterprise's ability to hold hedge for doing a transaction because all enterprises, they may not have the ability to have that financial instrument because they need to have a wallet to hold this network. Right so there are certain challenges that we may have to work with those enterprises, create some better models. Maybe we can be when we build a platform, we ought to make sure that a challenge is not passed to the enterprise. So you can have a wallet, that you can take care of the hedge related transaction. So that the enterprises may not worry about that. So these are all small challenges. I wouldn't call these challenges as a permanent challenge because it's just a matter of time before all the enterprises start holding one or the other wallets in the system. So it's just evolving. All of us, we are seeing that. So these two important learnings are they are always with me and my team when we develop any platform. So keep in mind the maturity of the market and how that's going to develop. And then also it sounds like plan ahead for your massive success and make sure that your platform can scale when you achieve that. Exactly I, I wouldn't say it is a learning our understanding from this karbon core. When we started working with our partners and customers and sustainability projects, we realized that indirectly we are helping all these projects to scale, to expand, because now they are getting the credit or carbon credit work directly from people who want to buy this carbon credit. And also they get it in time with that. They are able to really make use of that money to expand the programs. So what it means is not. We don't have to build new programs, the existing programs they themselves can bring in more sustainability. The carbon credits into the market that they are growing those programs. So ultimate objective of bringing down that one degree or two degree global warming is probably it is not too far. I would like to see that happening quick. I think we all would. Ravi, Thank you so much for spending time with us today. If people want to learn more about c, where should they go? It is Lipscomb. W Lipscomb. Always they can reach out to me rugby at Lipscomb. It is idea Vi at Lipscomb or in Fort Lipscomb and we will be more than happy to share our experiences and then see how best we can help the society. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate your time and happy day.
