Why soft skills and a clear career path are becoming the trades' best recruiting tools

This is straight straight straight out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another episode of straight out of Crumpton. I am Greg Crumpton, and I will be your guide for the next little while, maybe thirty five, forty minutes worth of insights. And today, without a doubt, some really good conversation. Folks, today I'm proud to bring on a gentleman who I'm proud to call a friend now, several years in the making. The man is doing all kinds of stuff. He is a CEO. He is the founder and curator of an academy, and he's a podcast host as well. So today we welcome Josh Zolin, Windy City Equipment CEO. Welcome to the show, Josh. Greg, thanks so much for having me, man. I'm I'm excited to be back, excited to to have a conversation. It's been too long. And thanks for calling me a friend, man. That's reciprocal. It goes both ways. Well, have we ever met in person yet? Not yet. Not yet. We've talked about it for years. It's only been, like, ten years we've been trying to do that. So one day one day we will, man. It'll happen. Josh, I've I've followed you a long time now. I won't say all the way back to your previous life, but which I I always like to talk about, which I I love. And we we maybe we hit on that. But Sure. What you're doing with with Windy City, what you're doing with Blue is the New White Academy, and then the podcast, everything they don't tell you. To me, all three of those have a lot of pop. So you've done well naming your your daytime biases, if you will. I never knew where Wendy City equipment came from until I spent some time out there, then I figured that out. You've got a lot of stuff going on there. You've made some really key hires over the last few years that I think have advanced your program or advanced your company and put you really in a nice role as the CEO. And this is me looking at you guys from outside. It really seems like it's given you a chance to work, at at a at a higher level, meaning oversight and directional as opposed to grinding it out day to day, making sure parts, making sure techs, making sure customers are all happy. And then when you came up with the blue is the new white concept, I really thought that was really, really you were ahead of your time because people like us had talked about that initiative a lot. But now it seems the tide is finally rising, for those boats and us in those boats that have been, I won't say preaching, hearing that message for a while. And then, you know, naming the podcast, everything they don't tell you. That's powerful, man. So I am I'm dying to hear about, which one first? Let's talk about the company. Let's talk about Sue and the City. Give us a little snapshot of what's going on, what you do, and maybe more importantly or equally important, why you do it. Before you dive in, just give us a little snapshot about you and your scuntman past. Yeah. I said it. It came out Yeah. No. I don't. There it is. That's okay. And you know what? I appreciate you bringing it up. I've lived a couple of lives as as you've alluded to, and each one of them has taught me something. So my life in a nutshell, I grew up in a family business, but it was not the blue collar skilled trades. It was the film industry as a stunt performer. My grandfather was a stunt performer. All my uncles, my mom, my dad, everybody did stunts. Right? And I'm talking rolling cars, jumping off buildings, letting letting themselves on fire, all in the name of risk and adrenaline and, you know, obviously safety. But at the end of the day, contributing to the films that are made and and the impact that they have those films have on the people who watch them. Right? That's that's what I was brought up believing, and that was my path for a long time. I was very vocal about not going to college, not needing or wanting to go to college because my path was clear. I'm gonna be a stuntman, and and that's where it ends. Right? So I did go down that path. I was a stuntman for the first portion of my life up until about twenty one years old, twenty years old, twenty twenty one years old. And long story short, I had a bit of an identity crisis. You know? I I looked myself in the mirror, and I said, I don't wanna be the crash dummy for somebody that people deem more important than me, right, as a stunt double. Because at the end of the day, Greg, it's all the stuntman got hurt. Next man up. Yeah. Next. And that didn't resonate with me. You know? I just I I felt like I had a higher calling than that, and and I didn't know what that meant. Right? But the biggest thing I took away from the stunt business was performance under pressure and the importance of precision. Right? In the stunt business, an inch to the left, an inch to the right is literally life or death. Yeah. And so I built this kind of tenacity in me early in my life, and I'm so thankful that I did and that I took that path because it was able to translate directly into the business. So as soon as I was done with the stump business, I was about twenty one years old. My dad at the time had gotten out of the stump business. He had since started an equipment repair company out here in Phoenix, Arizona. He's from Chicago, hence the Windy City equipment. Right? And for lack of a better term, he was chucking a truck. He was a one man operation, one man show, no desire to grow the company, just a desire to work to feed his family. And so I came in and I said, dad, I have no idea what you do for a living, but I know there's opportunity in it, and I don't wanna see you on your hands and knees your entire life. Let me come in and let's do something about it. So I spent ten years in the field learning how to be a service technician because if you know my dad, you know he's incredibly old school. There is no silver spoons. There is no handouts. It's, hey, if you want a part in this business, you need to learn how it works from the ground up. So ten years I spent turning wrenches and understanding what it is that we did. You talked about that piece in your book. I thought that was a really good, valuable lesson of of how a lot of family businesses are are paid forward in learning the business from the ground up as opposed to the silver spoon method of here you go son and to quote a friend of mine, you're on third base but you didn't hit a triple. So having to learn the business, I I really I I enjoyed reading the book, and your book was good. And that was one part that really pop popped out because I worked for my dad as a he did not own the company, but he was our boss. And there was no favoritism. And in fact, probably anti favoritism shown because of that purpose. You will earn your way. So I really that resonated with me really well. And that was important to me too, Greg. You know? And and at the time, I understand it better now than I did at the time, although I was very accepting of it at the time. It was just culture shock for me. I went from Hollywood to greasy kitchens. You know? So it was a bit of a culture shock, but looking back, I'm so grateful that I spent that time in the field. And, you know, it showed me not only, you know, the importance of understanding the business from the from the bottom up, but also respecting the work that's done. Right? If I would have come right into the business thinking I knew everything about business, which I didn't, by the way, right, I wouldn't have had the perspective that I do, and I don't think that I would have, through the years, gained the respect from the team that I have and and what we've grown into today. Yeah. Well, there there's nothing like having an owner or a leader who has walked that that mile. It's it's just different. You know? I'll I'll work with some incredibly gifted people in my day job, but they've never laid on the roof in the snow and tried to make an air conditioner run. And, it's just a different perspective. And I I'm glad you have that experience because I think it makes your team view you differently in a good way. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. You know, the one struggle of this, Greg, was that I was young when I, you know, when I when I did this. And as in my my latter years of in the field, we started bringing on more people, and the people we would bring on were sometimes twice my age. So in order to lead that team, I had to develop a set of skills that I never really thought I would have to develop. Right? And that's this kind of bleeding into the academy that you mentioned of understanding how to carry yourself in a manner that is conducive to getting results from other Because at that age, Greg, if I'm twenty five years old and I'm trying to tell somebody who's fifty two how to do something their job. Listen, that's not the easiest thing in the world even if I did spend time in the field. And so that's kind of where I understood. I started to begin to understand how important it was to develop this other level of skills and how important it was to my own success. And so obviously, I wrote the book first on, hey, this is what blue collar careers really are and what they can really mean. And then the academy came as an ancillary after that with, Hey, now you know technical skills. You are a master of your craft, Mr. Technician, but if you want to take the next step in your career, right, this is how you do it. When I was I don't know. Let's say when I was twenty eight years old, I was really good at the field piece. I had I I was good at doing HVAC stuff. And I often and one of my work buddies was a guy who's ten years older than I am. He'd been in the Navy, but experience wise, we were we were really close because he got a late start into the apprenticeship. I got an early start, so it's kinda weird relationship, which we are still buds today. But we used to talk a lot. And I would say to him, Jeff, the technical piece to me is one third of our business. And he would say, you know, as usual, what is wrong with you? First of all, that's what he usually said. But because he knew at a young age, I was I thought differently than than just wanting to work in the field forever. And the other piece is the paperwork, and we were using, you know, triplicate work orders back in the day, handwritten. But the other piece is the people and how we communicate with our customers. And I was saying this stuff, Josh, and I'm like, I I didn't even know where it came from really when I was saying it because I'd never been taught that other than watching a business transact and you know, you can have the, and you know this better or not, you could perform like a freaking gold medal Olympic winner or Olympic gold medal winner on your technical skills. But if you don't communicate and exit the property well, you diminish yourself. For whatever reason that clicked, and that's what I love about what you're doing. You're showcasing these other items, not just how to understand sub cooling on a condensing unit. It's understanding the human side of it. Probably man, this day and age is probably more important than technical because the technical has become very in a box to me. Like most things are relatively simple. You can replace the part, you can diagnose the system, the math and science are in a box. The other thing is the Wild West, the human side, the interaction, the emotions, and how you show up that day and how your customer shows up that day and piece of it. It's a huge piece of it, and and you're absolutely right. Actually, there's been studies now that have come out that have shown that soft skills are more important to employers than hard skills. It makes sense. Right? Because, you know, at the end of the day, we wanna work with people we like. Yeah. We wanna work with people that understand and get it and and are empathetic and can under and recognize behaviors and act against them. You know? When I say against them, I mean, you know, just react to them in a positive way. You know, the problem is, Greg, that that these skills that we're talking about, you know, communication and leadership and responsibility and conflict resolution and having hard conversations and the ability to teach, all of this stuff is usually reserved for management, executive, or leadership positions in a business before someone will train on it. Right? But what if what if your entire team carried themselves that way? What would your business look like? Right? And that's that's the question that we're trying to answer and and and trying to prove. It's a big difference. It's a huge difference. And so I've just read a book, and and I'm on this freaking kick about this book right now. Let me grab it. Yeah. It's called our listeners can't see it, but it's unreasonable hospitality. It's sitting on my nightstand right now. Greg, I haven't cracked it yet. I'm so pissed that it took sixty one years to find it, although it hadn't been out that way. This to me, Josh, when you read it, it is based on, you know, restaurant tour wrote it. But the the principles of what Will Guerrero, the Guerrero Guerrero, what he teaches in the book and executed at his level at his restaurant are they're applicable to anything. I had a doctor's appointment this week or last week, and the doctor who has become a friend, I'm like, doc, you gotta read this book because I I was sitting in the lobby watching what happened. It's got a great practice. Well, nice building, you know, all the all the accoutrements. But the lady that took me to the back and started doing my, you know, FBI, and and checkup of have you done this in the last year and have you done that? Never knew her name until I asked her name. And I said, you know, that little bitty thing of understanding that Ashley was Ashley. And by having a a two dollar name tag made for her and ask her to wear it in a font that old people can read and not some microscopic four point font. That is a relationship thing because as people age, they want to be connected with. They don't want to be a statistic or a transaction. And I said, you know, doc, that one little name tag establishes that report right off the bat because I know her name. I'm not wondering why she's checking, you know, all my stuff. My medications changed, all that. I know who's asking me these questions. He said, You're the second person that week that told him to read that book. So anyway, it's a great book. So I'm glad you got it. But to to everything you've said thus far, Josh, this is really relatable to what he's teaching us. Or or you know what? It's not even teaching us. It's hitting us over the head with it again because we know it. Yeah. That's the key. Right? And and I'm so glad you said that because inherently, we know it. Inherently, we can we can all acknowledge how important communication is. We can all acknowledge how important it is to understand and react appropriately to other people's thoughts, opinions, feelings, etcetera. But in practice, Greg, it's it's foreign. In practice, it's like we lose all of this logic that we've gained over the years and, you know, just this stuff fumbles out of our mouth and we're like, what the hell did we just say? Or how did we just act? Or worse, we don't even realize it and then somebody else has to bring it to our attention if we're lucky. You know? So there's so many different ways that this can help people advance their careers, business owners prop up their team, give them transferable skills that can help everybody succeed. And at the end of the day, that's what business is about, win win win situations. Right? Business, team members, customers. Everybody has to win. And when you find that formula, business works. And we're all consumers. We know what feels good. Yeah. It's not like we have to go up on the mountain to figure out what this feel good feeling is. We know what it is. It's walking into your coffee shop, and they say, hey, Josh. Usual. You know, it's that kind of relationship that makes us want to be there, feel good about paying for it, and you drive away with, you know, a cup of coffee, and and you're like, yeah, that that is what it should feel like. And whether we're buying, you know, HVAC or restaurant equipment service or or whatever, you wanna feel you wanna feel good about what you just paid for. I mean, a human, you want to. And, you know, the the biggest part is getting and I will say young people, because that's who we're mainly working with, to quit looking at the tops of your shoes and look up and have a direct conversation that's meaningful to both parties. And I go back to why are we in this predicament or in this situation? And society has moved this way. This is not our industry, plural industries that, that are like this. I mean, it's just what it is, but if you can talk with people and explain, and, and while you're explaining, does this not feel better than me looking at my phone, talking to my shoe tops while I'm explaining this to you? And it's like awareness being aware that we do stuff we don't even know about, you know, like when I'm on video, I blink a lot. I didn't know that until I watched myself on video, which is the worst thing in the world ever for me is to watch myself or listen to myself. I don't know why I have a podcast without having those two phobias. You know, we do stuff we don't even realize until somebody says that, you know, Hey, when you're talking to the customer, let's talk about next steps. What can we do to help them rather than, ah, you got a piece of junk on the roof, You know? Yep. So what we're seeing here, Greg, is what I believe to be the result of an entire generation focusing mostly on communication that involves writing. Writing through social media, writing through emails, writing through text messages. And we know how difficult it is to have a proper conversation in written form, right, because of all of the nuances that we as humans pick up, these micromanorisms. Highbrows go up. Greg blink blinks a lot. I mean, you know, they're they're always Oh, you gotta pick them. Yeah. All these things that we pick up on when we have a conversation, you know, that can they can be indicators into what the other person is thinking or what they're really saying. All that gets missed. So fast forward to when these generations enter the workforce and they're asked to look somebody in the eye and have a conversation, they haven't developed that skill set. They don't have the tools. Now, if that same person said, Text me about it, they hit it out of the park. Right. But unfortunately, you know, as we move forward, business is is nothing more. Even b to b is just person to person. At some point, it's just people dealing with other people, and that's what this whole thing is about. And obviously, the written word is just one of many examples that, that have surfaced over the years, especially with the way that we train ourselves to deploy these skills. I really enjoy watching the moment somebody gets it and they suddenly realize that that worked and you can see it, especially in technicians for me, I see it as they grow, as they learn, as they're getting real life feedback. Cause there's nothing like doing this in real time. Cause you don't practice a lot until you're in the game. But it's really cool when people start to click and they're like, yeah, I see this now. And there's a combination of reps of time, of maturity, of all that stuff has to get in the blender before you start to really get your feet under you. And that all happens at different times for different people, which for me, and I'm curious of how this is affecting your academy and the podcast is the fact that we have four, if not five generations in the workforce right now. From, from the to the older generation after boomers. We still have some of those ladies and gents on the, on the clock and how, how we talk about a message to a thirty year old is different than a twenty and it's different than a sixty. Although the message has to be the same. We have to couch it and use different terminology and phraseology to get the message across. I think that that right now is a really special skill that if you haven't mastered, or not even mastered, but if you're good at it, that can carry a lot of weight. So much weight. And actually we touch on this in the course, is knowledge transfer across generations, right? It's a special skill that we're all still developing because it's fluid. All these generations are still exiting and entering the workforce at any given time. One thing that you said I want to point out, you said in practice, and that's a really important distinction. I want to make that distinction to all of your audience out there that they should never confuse learning with practice. You can learn something, but until you practice it, you're not gonna actually internalize it. Right? And that's just as true when you're trying to bridge generations using communication. Like, it's, yes, you can you can learn, you know, about what we say on this podcast or in the academy or, you know, what you read in a book, but until you actually put that into practice and get uncomfortable, make yourself uncomfortable, you know, by trying it, you know, you're not gonna get anywhere with it. And and this this concept of bridging these these generations is is really interesting because you're right. I mean, we have everything from from baby boomers all the way down to what even the next one that's coming up, Gen Alpha, you know? Yeah. They're twelve right now. They're twelve, but they're coming, right? Mean, you're talking four more years and they're going to be entering the workforce. Yep. You know? And so I think, and this is the takeaway that I want to leave your audience with because you're right, there's a lot to be said about terminology, what terminology you use, even the application in which you teach. Are they better hands on learners or audible learners or visual learners? You know, there's that learning pyramid that we go over in the course as well. But there's an underlying fundamental that ties it all together, and it's respect. When you talk about communicating, learning from, or teaching to the wide array of generations that exist in the workforce, oftentimes that respect is what's missing. Oh, that generation doesn't want to work. Oh, that generation, you know, is too candid. You know, we hear it both ways. You know? They don't know what they're talking about, blah blah blah blah. And so I would challenge everyone to just kind of zoom out a little bit and understand that everybody has something to teach. Everybody has something to learn. And so if you come at it from a place of ultimate respect and even call out some of these differences, that can set the foundation, that can pave the way for a much better experience from everything from communication to hard conversations to teaching and to learning. You know, I I said last week on a podcast or maybe two weeks ago, we've all been that damn generation of kids. You know? That's right. Everybody I've ever known has been that generation and the next generation will be that generation. That's just how humans tend to act. But I can tell you that the gen alphas that I have been exposed to by going to middle schools and talking to fifth, sixth and seventh graders, there's some really, really keenly focused kids that we're going to be having into our workforce and work environments. They're pretty darn sharp. All right. So I've got my next one's coming up in may, at a, at a middle school. And, when I went to this particular school last year, I was talking about electricity. This dang kid jumps up and he starts telling me about from the, from the pole to the breaker box of how a house works. And he was spot on. I'm like, God they're out there. We just gotta keep finding them and keep nurturing them. I've got a young man, he's twenty. He's on fire, man. He's he wants to build his own business and he's barely ready. He's not ready, but he's already thinking about how that business is going to run and what he wants to do with it. I'm so excited about the youth, Josh, that sometimes you go to maybe a restaurant or something and you're having to tell them how much change to give you because I'm the guy that uses cash and I get in a truck some days and I think, Oh, we gotta, we gotta help that kid, you know, learn math and using real coins. But then talk to these other youngsters who are out there that have some pretty simple needs. They want to feel like they belong to an organization or with an organization. They want to be part of an organization. They don't like isolationism. They do like to be on a team. Even if they're working remote by themselves, they like a group and they all they really want to know. And I'm speaking from a very stereotypical brush here. They just want to know where they're headed. Give me a roadmap. Show me what success looks like. I'm cool with being measured against it, but tell me how to get there. And I think that's really important because your generation never got that of tell me how to get there. Yeah. You guys had to grind it out and figure out, am I where I should be as opposed to being able to measure against somewhere and know, okay, this is a plateau. Next step looks like this. I don't think you've got that as a generation because the people like me didn't tell you how to get there. We assumed because when I came up, we were told how to get there, but we didn't pass that law. We've got to make sure we're doing that. And I think your academy helps people understand that map and how to measure against their marks. Is that fair to say? Yeah, there is definitely an element to that. I know I want to share a quick story and then maybe we can use this conversation about what success looks like to bridge into the podcast. Yep. But the, so, so you are absolutely right from this, you know, what it looks like to succeed in this organization. Several years ago, I came across something, you know, I learned this, right? And, and, and basically it was a light bulb moment for me. I was like, oh, wow. Okay. So I in everything that I do from a marketing standpoint, design standpoint, you know, and and what I've learned up until this time, the the book, right, and and everything I talk about in the book, I have an opportunity within my organization to generate and gamify a career path. Here's what it looks like when you come into my company, level one, here's level two, here's level three, here's level four, five, all the way up to master technician, right? And I'm just speaking from a field standpoint. But in each category, it shows not only what you're going to learn, the skills you need to have, and the tests that you need to pass in order to get to that next level. And then it even goes as far as to group, this is what your pay will look like. This is the range in this level. This is the range in this level. Here's what the transition looks like. Here's where you have to shadow attack. Here's where you have to ride with install. Here's where you have to do a PM or do PMs for a certain amount of Like, all of this is spelled out. And the number of people, because we could do career fairs and things like this, the number of people that have joined my organization, younger younger generation, have said that have said that they joined because there was a visual path of where they start, where they can end up, and how to get there is insane. Almost every new hire that we get from like a vocational school, tech school that comes in, they say that that one of the biggest reasons they joined. So I just want to put that out there for the business owners listening and from a value standpoint, it's not a heavy lift. It can be difficult, sure, but once you have it created, the the payout and the payback from that is incredible. Is that part of the academy? It's not part of the academy. The academy is more of a frontline workforce facing you know, these are the soft skills, but the skills that you learn and what we teach in the academy can be incorporated into whatever career path you come up with. Well, it's funny because over the last Friday, I was having lunch with one of our service managers who has now turned into a general manager of a, they're a union mechanical, but they're non union on their building, controls. And he's building that roadmap for his control technicians. And, we were having the same conversation of how to verify it. How do you, how do you instruct it? So it's a hot topic. I mean, everybody wants to know that even if we didn't get it, we probably still wanted it. So, Well, so let's so let's do roll into the podcast everything they did not tell you or don't Yes, sir. How did that come about? Yeah. Hard knocks. I appreciate you asking. So as you know, Greg, we had a podcast for a good portion of six years with the same title as the book and the same title as the Academy, Blue is the New White. And we gave a platform to blue collar skilled tradespeople all over the world, talk to them about why they love what they do. I'm happy to say that I have made friends in that podcast. I have collected colleagues from that podcast. And the amount of times I've been thanked for providing a platform for people in these industries, shining a spotlight on them, and for showcasing what's possible in them is immeasurable. I you know? So that part of this evolution in podcast is not lost on me. It really paved the way for this next iteration, which is everything they don't tell you. So since we made this realignment in June, and we did it because after six years, the snowball was clearly rolling. You mentioned it at the beginning of the show. The tide has turned, you know, with people and awareness. Now I that's not to say I don't wanna still continue to do my part to push and lean into it because I I love it. I'm passionate about it, and it's important. But there's a lot of people pouring into that space now, which is great. And so I'm at the point in my life and my career where I really want to my definition of freedom is being able to work as many hours as I can on things that I love. Right? And so the podcast is one of those things that I would do for the rest of my life for free. But my one of my things to my detriment is that I just make all my hobbies my businesses. And so I totally get that. And so so what I did with the podcast is I wanted to remove the the the red tape. Right? And when I say red tape, it was we were finding we had people jumping in from other industries wanting to listen to the show. But then as soon as, you know, as soon as they would hear the term, you know, blue collar or blue is the new white, it's almost like, oh, it's not for me. I'm not in a blue collar career. I'm not in the blue collar skilled trades. Know? And a lot of the principles that we talked about on the show are transferable, but we were missing out on a big portion of the audience that we could help because of the Because of their name. Exclusivity. Right. And so we took the opportunity to Zoom out, and now what we've done with the show, because it it's great it's gained credibility over the years, We've been able to reach out to authors, wildly successful business people in all industries, doctors, attorneys, coaches, anybody who can help a business owner. And here's the here's the overarching theme. Right? And this this comes from me, and this is why it aligns to me personally. I, Greg, have visions of grandeur. Okay? I I have huge aspirations. I'm inspired every single day to move toward my goals, to accomplish my goals, and to set new ones because I truly love being able to lay my head on the pillow at night and feel accomplished. My realization was I couldn't do that without becoming the person capable. What I mean by that is that, you know, I can want the big business and the high revenue and the big employee count and, you know, all of these cool things, you know, outside of my personal life, my family, and all of that, but that's a big part of it too. Right? How do I achieve both? Because that's my definition of success. It's not it's not building in a gigantic successful corporation at the expense of my wife and kids. Right. It's not even it's not even, you know, spending my entire life with my wife and kids at the expense of of not pursuing my missions. And so the podcast has has evolved into a show that we talk about business and success and financials and logistics and all of that, but more importantly, becoming the type of person that can actually carry that weight. And so that's why You're gonna talk it. You gotta walk it. That's exactly right. And what does it mean? So many people out there have no idea how to strike this balance. You know, they've been taught one way their entire life, and they have no idea that there's ways to navigate everything. We're living under false pretenses, under lies that we've told ourselves since we were five years old, right, and that have just become a part of us. And so I'm in a unique position with the audience that I've built and the listeners that gravitate to the show to be able to help in a capacity other than, hey, this is how you generate more revenue. This is how you lean into sales. This is how you properly market. No. It's this is how you do that without breaking yourself in the process. And we've been able to talk to some really successful people, Gay Hendrix, if those who know who Gay Hendrix is, author of The Big Leap, a multiple New York Times bestselling author. We've talked to Joe Jacoby, Olympic gold medalist. Thanks to you, Aggression guy. He's one of the one of the most listened to episodes, we got into, yeah, you know, that performance was great, but how did you prepare for it? You know? I mean, that and what did it do to you once you actually achieved it? We've talked to Todd Henry, the accidental creative. We talked to John Lee Dumas, world renowned podcaster. David Meltzer, CEO of the Lee Steinberg agency and chairman of Napoleon Hill Foundation. Right? The the the guy who ran the company they based Jerry Maguire around. Doctor Robert Glover, author of No More Mister Nice Guy. Most recently some heavyweights. Oh, my goodness. And and Melody Ruddarte, top doctor seven years in a row in Phoenix. Amy Moran, author of thirteen things that mentally strong people don't do, and just so many more people in between all of that. Adam Coffey, which you may know Adam Coffey. He's author of, so Adam Coffey is a private equity superstar. He he wrote private equity playbook, exit strategy playbook, a billion dollar empire Yeah. Incredible books. So, anyway, we've we've we've created this platform to where people can learn from the people that write the books that they read. And that helps me and inspires me and lights me up. This is a long answer, Greg. I'm really sorry. I'm so passionate about this. Hey, look, this is what it's about. I can't be us, but real life passion. And these things you're talking about, man, are germane to living a happy, healthy, and everybody's got their own definition of balance. Josh, your balance and my balance are different, but you know your balance when you feel it. And it's a sliding scale, man. You may have to do stuff with your kids more heavily one day and less heavily the other, but having the ability to recognize when to slide toward which end to me, that's my success. Okay. So one quick thing I want to ask. I know we're up on time here. Do you know Nilifer Merchant? No. So Nelifer's a lady that I've been following for several years. She wrote the last book she wrote was onlyness. What, what in the world is the onlyness that you bring to it? This is, and, and I, I bring this up because of what you said, twenty four invisible norms that limit us. I can't wait. So I just finished this where I could get started on that. Definitely report back to me on that because that sounds very, very interesting. I thought so. What do we even do that we don't know is holding us back because it's ingrained in us? There's so many things, and it begins with the narrative that we tell ourselves on why we should or shouldn't succeed. I mentioned Gay Hendrix and the book, The Big Leap. That entire book is about self sabotage and what we do to limit ourselves from breaking through our ceiling. We essentially, Greg, convince ourselves because of the constructs that we've lived under or what we've seen or haven't seen or the way that we were raised and had to internalize. And essentially, when we were young, we developed these traits and personalities that help us survive. Whether or not it's logical is neither here nor there, but it's what our developing mind does. Right? And that shapes and we don't realize it shapes who we become in adulthood. And so, yeah, that's just one of many examples of some of the conversations that we have on the show. I really like what you said about balance being different. Balance is different than my balance, and one of the things that I love, maybe this can be a takeaway for your audience, is burnout is not a function of workload. Burnout's a function of alignment. Burnout's a function of is not a function of work. It's a function of meaningless work. Right? And so I'm the type of guy I can work one hundred hours a week and be perfectly happy for the rest of my life if it's on things that light me up. The right kind of work. That's exactly right. That is my definition That's right. Because you're back into hobby because you love it. Exactly. That's freedom, Greg. You know, we talk about freedom as this destination. You know, I'll be happy when. You ever heard that? You ever said that? You know? And and and we all have at some point, but, you know, and we fall into this trap. This is one of those self limiting things, right? Because we we know it practically. Be happy when does not serve us, But then we live in that state almost on a daily basis until we can remind ourselves. Freedom's the same way. You can have freedom. Yeah. You can have freedom while you're working because freedom's a mindset. Freedom is not a destination. It's a choice, isn't it? Well, Josh, I, I, I think we could probably go for four more hours, but you've got a company to run young men. I do. Tell everybody where they can find out about the, the three pieces of your trifecta, the, the the Academy, the podcast, the company. Yeah. I appreciate that. So, I'll make it real easy for everyone. It's just josh zolin dot com. My first and last name, j o s h z o l I n dot com. There you can find the podcast, the academy, Windy City Equipment. I even offer a free ninety day ROI playbook, and it's basically how to ingrain soft skills among your frontline workforce and how to capture up to thirty thousand dollars in extra profit without changing anything except for implementing these soft skills among your team. Wow. That's a pretty good offer, sir. Check it out. Well, folks, I hope you all have understood over the last bit that Josh is serious about making his dent in the universe. I love that quote. I didn't agree with a lot of what Steve Jobs did, but I did like his phone, and I did like that quote. Y'all go check out Josh Zulan dot com. Josh, it's always a pleasure to get to talk to you, and I really appreciate you taking your, I guess it's your lunch hour over there, to join us and talk about these things that, you know, I think people over exaggerate how far fetched they are, but how in our face they really are and what we deal with on a daily basis. So, folks check out those resources, figure out if you're in line for one of them and dive into Josh's work. He's worked out. I can't say a long time because he looks so young and handsome. He has some work at getting a program built that that helps. And, so check it out, see what you think as always. We really appreciate you sticking with us today and listening to this episode. This is some of the, this is episode number one hundred sixty seven for us, Josh. I know you did two hundred, I think on your, previous named episode. Right. And God knows, they make me think a lot. And thank you for making me think today. Folks, go check us out at greggcrumbden dot com. You can find my stuff there, all the different little nooks and crannies of life that I get into, as well as the two books are on there for purchase. So check them out if you will, but really, more than anything, thank you for taking time. It's much more valuable than the book, and, we appreciate it. And until next time for Greg Crumpton, for Josh Zilin, we are out, and we will see you soon.