Demystifying Display Management for Live Events

This is demystifying display management for live events, and it's my pleasure to introduce Anke Ellis from IHSE. Give her a round of applause. Thank you very much. Yes, I was waiting for that bigger applause. Thank you. You could try harder, Enno. Anyway, my name is Anke Ellis. I'm responsible for the marketing and communication at IHSE group. Maybe I start with just giving you a very brief overview over who we are and what we do. I think I'll start with who we are. We are based in Southern Germany right at the beautiful shores of Lake Constance, and we are a global company so we have offices in Singapore. We have offices in the US. We have offices in China and also in in Vienna, Austria. So our R & D is happening though in Germany and our production as well. So this is where we deliver all our products into the world. Now a little bit just very briefly about what do we actually do. We are one of the leaders in the KVM industry. KVM, you all know what KVM means. It stands for keyboard, video, mouse. What we do, we do the signal extension of the keyboard, video, mouse to the PC which might be ten fifty. I don't know how many kilometers away from keyboard, video, mouse. And well, we've been doing this for almost forty years. Right? I know. So we've been doing this for almost forty years and we're just really, really proud because we're well known for our innovation in the industry. And we have fantastic customers all over the world. You know the big names. I don't know, ABC, Fox News. Even if you walk up the strip in Las Vegas and you get to the cirque du soleil, their shows run on our products. So one of our creedos is engineers who listen. So we listened we listened some more and then we heard live production events are so difficult to produce. There's a huge, huge, huge requirement to actually have some clever and also reliable technology. That's what we do. And we're here today to talk to you about exactly that. De mystifying display management. Anyway, so we have a great panel. You can see them sitting behind me. These guys really, really know their stuff. So listen to them. Learn is kind of an educational session for you, and lean in. If you have any questions, I'm sure they don't mind if you shout them out. Or come and see us at our booth after the after the show. And all that's there for me to do is say thank you very much for being here. It's very nice to see you. And with that, I'll pass back over to Jason. Jason. Okay. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. My name is Jason Dachman. I'm a chief editor at SVG, that's sports video group. We're a trade association, and I'm super excited to be here today because I am starting to get up there in age and remember I was there before KVM was a must and when it was a nice to have in in Live Sports production. And it it is certainly been a must for for well over a decade at this point. I'm not a big fan of just like straight up, you know, this is my name and this is my title. So I'm gonna have each of these gentlemen kinda go through and tell you something pretty cool at the start. Mateo, let's start with you. You guys just built a new studio, tell us a little bit about your organization, what you guys do, and what you were looking for when you were building your Yeah. Happy. So my name is Mateo Paul Ferman. I'm the director of esports for Blue Mammoth Games. They make a game called brawlhalla, which is a free to play platform fighter. Available on all platforms. You see it Peggy seven rated. So we get students, kids, players from ages seven to sixty or seventy years old. And so we've been running in the e sports program for eight years now. And just recently last year, we built a new studio. And we we needed a solution because we had computers in three different rooms, there was cables between them, it was not secure, it was inconvenient, and what you'll find with esports a lot of time is that you don't have the resources to put a person at each station in your control room. And so for us, having a system, a KVM system like AHSE, allowed us to put everything in one room, higher security, better aesthetics, But then also, it's more flexible. So now if I have a show where I'm running with two people, myself and the other operator can switch between all of our different machines as needed very easily very quickly and that for us has been kind of a a lifesaver. Sure. Yeah. You you get that dynamic quality you simply wouldn't have if it was more multiple islands. Right? Cool. So Dan Turk, Dan, you work for a tiny little company called NEP. The aren't many people in the world. I don't think they probably know more about trucks and live production systems than you do. So nice to have you up here. Tell me a little bit about how you seen KVM play a role, especially for replay and playback in truck design and and workflows for live production, especially sports. Yeah. It really created flexibility for us. So one of the things is we rent mobile production facilities and you could be doing a football game to an entertainment show there's different people in the room and it really gives you the flexibility to move things around and, you know, use it most efficiently. The other side of it is you'll be able to extend the truck into a venue or into office trailer or whatever is there. Our world is very temporary. So you're there for show, you're in, you're out. So it's keeping it easy. He flexible and allowing people to do their job. Anything any in particular setups that that you can point out at particular trucks, particular projects where KVM played like a massive role, a really, really game changing role as I put you on the spot for that. Sorry. I mean, a lot of the big, especially like the football, and there's a tape truck, a whole truck that there are twenty to thirty operators, so really having the flexibility to move people around and also extend it to someone when sit in production instead of in the truck. It's around. It's easy. It's dialed it up. It makes it flexible. People are able to work around the people they want to versus the dedicated hardwired you know, you have to sit here, you can't do it. So it really does help, you know, the environment and working with others. Sure. Yeah. And and our last speaker here helped to create what is KVM, I would say, for decades ago. And and since then, IHSE, I know has has obviously been all over the place and and grown so much. But can you tell me as somewhat of a novice when it comes to KVM, what are some of the fundamental principles when it comes to integrating KVM into a broadcast? Environment. I mean it's very important to understand what you have to bring to the operator. Right? So you have to understand stand all the workflow. And often for engineers, they like to engineer some product and afterwards especially Germans are known for well that's what I did. Now sell it. Right? Right? And and and we had to learn. Right? We came here especially and talked to people, talk to the integrators, talk to the guys like EBS, Visa, and so on, understand their workflow and come up with the extension of the signals they needed in order to operate their gear. Right? And if we if we talk a minute about EBS, I mean, you know it's perfect technology, but it's damn expensive. Right? So you want to economize on the use of those machines. Right? And then they produce a lot of heat and they produce a lot of noise. So for your trucks, right? You build all that gear into re remote compartment of the truck. You cool it. Right? You you you save the noise from the from the operators. And therefore, we have to come up with solutions not only for k b m for the keyboard video mouse, but also for the audio, maybe for RS two three two control Like, I mean all that you only learn by talking to the people listening to what's their needs and that's what we do now successfully for the fourteen years were in the market. Sure. Yeah. And again, it wasn't that long ago where it was like, I guess I'll do KVM, you know, just to streamline some things And now I don't think there's there's really a live production set up or or facility that's built with without it. So that's been one of more interesting evolutions and I'm an objective observer. So I promise I'm not just, like, blowing smoke at him. Let's let's kinda talk about how how KVM does make you more efficient. Mateo, why don't we start with you? Anything specific and you kinda talked about in your your opening comments. But that KVM has allowed you to do that's made your team more productive, more efficient, and maybe saving on some costs to Yeah. So a lot of the shows I run by myself. Sure. So before, in my little room with five setups, all the normal ones you'd expect, tape graphics, TD, whatever. I would literally sit down, do one thing, get up, run over, do another thing, get up, run over, and I would do that for an hour. And then the next time we have a show, I do that for an hour another hour. And that's that's not an efficient workflow. It's not good. There was a time we were parsecing locally to other machines, but that also has its flaws as well. Sure. And so now I can have one station when I'm doing these solo shows, and I can switch between every station as needed. And I also have the additional USB IO, which has been really helpful. I run a stream deck, we run companion, and finding areas where we can automate things to simplify what would be cooler if you had multiple people to do it, but you don't. You have one or two people, has been very helpful. And so being able to have just the control surfaces where I need them. Right? Keyboard mouse, stream deck, maybe a USB headset, or another USB peripheral. That's been really helpful. Sure. So from one end of the spectrum, a one man band running on a stream deck to to get out to to viewers, essentially, to the other side. Dan, just massive huge facilities that can often encompass multiple mobile units or multiple locations talking about a fixed facility. How has KVM impacted you guys, made you more efficient, especially when it comes to things like replay graphics, that type stuff. Yeah. It really goes back to, you know, kind of having the operators sit where they want, be flexible. I mean, even also the quality that IHS brings us know, you can do remote desktop and some of those things and, yeah, it works. It's fine. But you really wanna do that all day long. Having the high quality, having the flexibility, you know, with their Draco software of put keys and you know what? I'm the graphics guy and you know some of it's even into read it redundancies. So it's you wanna have a third graphics box and it's an easy quick key to get to versus having to, you know, do something. But if you're on the air and have a situation like that, it really does, you know, make it easier. And and flexibility is really -- Right. I can make any position anywhere. We try to build user stations that yeah. It's normally a tape room where this is normally production, but there's plenty of times we'll take a normal truck and go to an e sports game and rooms are completely different. They're used for different things, and, you know, it really does go to flexibility. I I think that's maybe one of the biggest sort of transformative things that has happened in truck design over the last five years is the user station aspect. Right? I mean, again, ten years ago, you had the replay room and that's what that room did, you know, and you and everything else. Now, especially with some of these larger you know, units like like SSCBS and the the larger trucks that that you guys run, you can put anybody anywhere and, you know, KVM is is a big part that. Right? Absolutely. KVM, then, you know, it goes to what do you want? You know, it's it you really can it's not it used to be this your station like you're saying you had it. And even if you like to look at a lot of the European trucks, there's actually a cutout for the remote d. And this is where you have to do it. It's all hardwired and it's like, we try to be more flexible. We try to, you know, we do a lot of, you know, other things in different types of shows with the trucks. You know, they're all built for a sport or something normally. But the rest of the year that fills in with other work and other you know, so it's it's a room. Sure. Yeah. And as the rise of IP comes you know, KVM has just become more important. We'll talk more about that in a sec. But And in in your opinion, since you were at the you know, the very early KVM within a broadcast environment days to where we are now where it's ubiquitous. How has its role evolved and what are some of the kind of said in your opening comments some of those key pillars of how it makes people more efficient, more robust, and potential cost savings. K. I we had to learn a lot about what signals to extend. I already talked about it. So originally, it was about keyboard video mouse and there were more signals to extend because the applications require more than that special input output devices, audio, whatever. So we learned from that and that took us a part couple of years to come up with a rise, right, add on to the normal KVM extension. Right? Then the number of sources required for special events. I mean, we learned from NEP and in Greek and others. We learned that you tie together several trucks. Right? If there's a large event, you you you you can't get along with one Right? And now, extension is as its best because we could tie together the trucks with a like a like a fiber thing, and you could use and economize on the gear that you had in one truck and use it in the other truck and vice versa. End. You have like a master truck. Right? Very nice one with a bar and all this and you have a number of streams there. And these guys who are the directors of the season. Right? They wanna know what's been played out, and you can share all the information that you have on our KVM matrix. Right? You can share it to multiple places. Right? And talking about you running the show your own, right? If you have several people and one guy gets stuck with some handling, they can share and they can co operate on the same machine regardless where they are in the trucks. So these are all things that evolved over time and make it so efficient and and a strong asset for the companies. Go ahead, Dan. That's one of the things that we really liked about the IHSE was the ability in the cards and they really listen to the industry and, yes, two thirty two and four two two data probably isn't popular. There's still devices especially in our world that you need it. Yeah. It's the add ons and the the whole system. So it's not you kinda gotta make it up as you go and couple things together, it's really our system. Again, something you said too about sharing the screen. We recently put in a new graphics system, and I brought in a couple of operators to get them trained. And I just set every station to mirror the screen of our graphics PC. And it was like, I didn't need to do a projector or anything like that. Everyone could they had access to it right in front of them. It was great. That's huge. And again, you were talking about trucks and and certainly it is true with trucks. But as remote production becomes more ubiquitous as decentralized production, that type of thing KVM is is gonna play even more of a role even if it's not two trucks right next to each other, Ray could be two places very far away. Let's talk about another trend and that's obviously the rise of IP and how that has impacted the way that KVM is integrated. Dan, I'm gonna start with you on this. You know, I I'm Can I would you say that every truck build now is an IP based truck build or or near to? Yeah. Okay. So we are at that point where baseband is in the rear view. And because KVM gives you flexibility and IP gives you flexibility, those two things together allows you to design trucks in a in a totally different kind of way. Right? Absolutely. It's honestly the KVM system kind of was the first IP ish in a sense of being able to share it and do it where and now the video we can share in a similar way. So it really does go to the flexibility and you know, getting people everything they need. Yeah. I mean it's a good point I never really thought about it like that but like KVM was the first sort of like IP centric piece of the puzzle. Right? Yeah. And I mean, again, how do you view as the entire industry starts moving towards IP? How does that impact the way that you guys run your business? Now it's getting really interesting. Right? Because we were so successful on our proprietary KVM because IP couldn't do it. And years ago, fifteen years ago, the IP infrastructure was not able to do it for a fair cost. Right? And so we did our own kind of IPs thing we build our own matrix which is great because our matrix is pretty pretty simple. Right? It pretty simple and that's why it's so reliable. Right? So we were successful setting up a very simple, very reliable system that was available at any point in time. It was more available than your computers, your sources. Right? So that was very strong and there's always danger to that kind of success. Because we we tended tend to stay on this technology. Right? And so what we did to years ago, we bought an outright KVM over IP company out of Austria, right, good opportunity to go to Vienna, by the way. Yeah. And And and and this company gave us like a like a boost towards offering IP access, IP IP access to other remote sources. Right? That we can take in into our matrix and also IP breakout so that you can access our matrix from remote places and the newest latest hottest thing that we offer is a is a front end which is software based application, so you can have your normal computer at any kind of IP access, and then you can open a sash that goes back safely through a kind of a tunnel, IP tunnel to our matrix, and you can see in a in a window, you can open sessions on on the May on the on the KVM, and I think that's something which is really hot, which even goes beyond hardware based KVM mobile IP. It will give you even more flexibility and there will be a model almost like the thin client that you might see around where you have a lot of like like like the clients will be available just for free Right? Right. You just license the sources that you go with and that will be a big thing in the future and we're right there here at the whole booth with that technology I mean, Mateo, that kind of solution would seem right down your alley. Right? Yeah. Right now for our remote operators, we're doing this weird blend of Parsec and some of these USB tunneling softwares that work most of the time, and then sometimes they don't work, and then you gotta restart the whole computer and your mid show and your replay, your tape, your playback is is offline for a few minutes, which is obviously kind of Not great. Not great. And so something like that would be a wonderful solution for us because we do Right? Our our my regular operator who does my replays, he has a stream deck and he has a a USB rip like, midi controller. And that's how he he handles and interfaces with the system. And that works great when it works. And then it doesn't when it stops working. Name of the session is demystifying display management for live events. Let's kinda talk about how KVM has expanded beyond I don't wanna say niche, but a very specific role within in a production ecosystem into this display management and and and I'll I'll start with you. I mean, how is the role kind of changed and how is it a bigger piece of the puzzle and become, again, display management more than just a KVM? When we started out, everybody had one screen. Right? There was one screen and you transmitted one one stream from any CPU. Right? You could switch between the CPUs. You had one one monitor. You had one keyboard and mouse set and so forth. Right? Very quickly with sharing and and having access to other monitors and other computers next to you, you had like dual monitor situations, but in all kind of control functions, you might have up to four monitors, especially if you have low traffic in in some session. Yeah. One one guy can handle more functions, right, than only one. So we came along with something like multi screen control, so you have one keyboard, you have one mouse, and yes you know from home that you have a computer with me which may feed two monitors or even three monitors. But what we do is we give you access to various computers at the same time. Right? You move your mouse and you're acting on another computer. Right? And that's already display management. That's nothing to do with KVM. I mean there was something like multi screen control over software but there is a point if you can do something in in hardware, it will be more reliable and it will be more available than anything you do on software. And then came the next thing, look look out there, you have monitors which are like more like like video walls. Right? And of course, I mean, you go to master control room and you have all those screens and you want to access them easily because KVM was so successful, that everybody wanted to have it everywhere. Right? We like that, but that means that we have to handle even more complex setups Right? We have to think about screens of various sizes, how to move the mouse all there. Right? And how to combine the streams even onto something which might be a video wall controller. Sure. Right? And that's display management far going far beyond the the the original task of extending keyboard video mouse. Yeah. Yeah. Dan, you know, I don't wanna like get into semantics here of, you know, display management versus KVM, but For you, I would think that when KVM became part of the equation, it was used for one specific task within the truck. But whether that be graphics replays. So I I think I'm right in saying that whether it's your multi view or whether it's your graphics, whether it's your replay, you know, everything has some piece of KVM at this point. How has that changed things for you in in the way that you guys build trucks? Yeah. It definitely started with you had a dedicated for, you know, the one device you wanted to not have to sit on top of or on a wire to and now it truly is everything. And really with the IP transition to newer technology, you know, it's less and less of the pizza box with knobs on the front, everything is, you know, a computer. So it's your system grows exponentially. Your sources are all different. You know, it really becomes a new way working and you really have to be able to touch everything in the live environment. You have to go do it fast, you know, to deal with redundancies or problems but also just how the show goes. So people may do different jobs at different times, you'll swing things and, you know, it really does help the work flow with everybody. Yeah. Sure. Mateo, you know, again, you're younger so you maybe you didn't know the pre base you know, pre pre IP based band days stuff. I'm aging myself by calling myself old but it's fine. But, you know, you you wouldn't have a system. Right? I mean, you literally wouldn't have a system without KVM, you know, end to end across. Or you would have a system that was driving you absolutely fucking crazy like it was before. Right? Yeah. What we had before was not sustainable. It was it was awful. At one point, you couldn't close the door because we had to run emergency cables across the floor to get off there. It was a nightmare. It was It was a nightmare. But I mean, to to to your point, we run one setup, one keyboard mouse, and and it's It's one has our game. Our game is very once you're in a Spectate mode, you don't really have to interact with it. It can just exist, and the other screen would be our screen's PC. So that's you know, we're driving our video wall, that sort of thing. And so that's also kind of a low key position. But if someone needs to go and adjust anything, it's one keyboard mouse, they're managing both displays, both PCs. And then also, I like that with with this, we have a software where I can go in and I need to change something, I can go. It's a it's a click and drag and drop or drop through a menu, and I can, you know, I can change any display to be any other display or control share control across multiple machines, and that's that's been lovely. What we did before was terrible. It was it was just It was the the the dark days. Not great. Not great. I wanna get back to Remote production for a second. Dan, I'll I'll go back to you on this one. NEP is not a truck company anymore. Right? I mean, yes. Of course, you make a lot of trucks and there's a lot of trucks. But NEP is a solutions provider or whatever you guys phrase it. So when it comes to remote decentralized workflows, be it fixed facilities or letting people work from home or that type of thing. You know, and NEP is now very much in that business. So how does KVM play into that? How does KVM let you guys think about these new next gen workflows that just wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Yeah. A lot of it it as the equipment kind of changed, you know, the workflow has changed and, you know, if there's the hardware KVMM, you know, it used to be there was you know, kind of the gen one KVM, there was a hard wire and there's a patch field and you would patch it now with the matrix, you know, being able to recall things is an important part. So, you know, as people do different jobs. You can recall a whole system. You know, you can bring them in but you know really the the AHC that KVM is the high quality you know, in band, you know, stuff that's working there. And it's as the technology is changing, you know, we're doing more and more of, hey, we already have this IP network and it's going from Dallas to LA or New York or wherever and let's push it all across that. We don't have to have a separate path or have another system over there. And talk data, it's let's do it right and do it, you know, so it's good quality and it's usable. Yeah. I mean, I just visited the MLS studios in New York that you guys set up. And you know, it's amazing how different that build is because of of KVM and because of the various workflows that there are. But, you know, if if you were to try to do that, essentially, these guys built the entire MLS broadcast infrastructure for Apple, the new MLS season pass. And, you know, again, it's spread across multiple cities all across the country. And if you were in old school based band days, it's not something you would even sitter. So I think it's a great example of, you know, sort of how far we've come. Yeah. Yeah. It it allows you to interact more before you're okay. You did your thing here. It may go there, but it's very separate. Now it's more integrated and it's part of the big solution. Sure. Yeah. And I know you you mentioned it before, but can you expand a little bit about how you see remote production playing into all this and and how KVM is an enabler of of Remi and decentralized production. We have seen IP IP access to to sources over the past years. And the first step was actually that you remote the cameras in a white Right? So you take the camera stream in, right, in a in a truck and you can operate there at the stadium for example. But some companies already take the camera pictures and have a dark fiber and bring them back into their normal production studios. Right? I was I happened to be in in Shanghai just before an AB, and Tencent right games joint venture. Right? They had the half the semi finals for the League of Legends in the Mercy Dispatch arena. Right? And they had nothing there. They had just had the cameras and they had remoted them through a dark fiber into their production building and I I was able to see how they did the like the the the final testing, right, with all their gear there. Right? So that doesn't affect us in the first place. Right? Because in the first place, all the sources come again into the production facility, and there you have your standard KVM technology. Right? But in order to have an kind of an ad hoc accessibility to the to the KVM, our original technology is very rigid. It makes it very reliable always there. It's available and whatever but now you want to have an access from another place for example. There you have the network. And so we see that there is more and more pressure and and the need for IP access. Right? And that's what we that we answer with our acquisition and so forth. And we believe that within short there will be more and more pure IP installations and still if you have the opportunity to do a structured cabling, it's still worth it to go for a kind of a proprietary system and expand it with that IP gateway stuff that we offer. So that's a good mix for the time now. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you mentioned riot games and they're just about as advanced as it gets when it comes to you know, Remi and and at home production, they're the world championship that was in San Francisco. In November, I believe that they did not have a truck on-site for the but they had a truck on-site, but it was for, you know, the iMac, the the in venue stuff. And the opening ceremonies. But in terms of the actual broadcast, everything was remote. And and again, we're talking about IP and KVM, making that possible. We're we're running a little low on time. If anybody has any questions, feel free to throw them out. But I I wanted to get to this as well. I'll go right back and then we'll come back down the line. Four k, HDR, you know, white color gamut, you know, obviously, we're seeing you know, frame rate as well, you know, high frame rate just makes everything a a little bit more challenging, a lot more challenging, much more so in a baseband world than in an IP world. But, you know, and it'll tell me how That impacts does it impact the the the KVM ecosystem when especially if you're dealing with multiple resolutions within a single production does it impact what you guys do and are you able to make life easier for the user? I mean we try hard and we are not bad at making life easier, but of course it's a lot of development. Right? Every change because we don't transmit, we're not a video cable. Mean we're not. Right? We're transferring or transcoding the data into our proprietary protocol and then we're coded back and played out. Right? We have to totally understand what changes with HDR, with high frame rate, and so forth. And guys, I mean, we're talking about stainability. I mean, a four k image is at least twice the energy that you have with a normal HD image Right? And that's getting worse if you have higher frame rate and and all the devices heat up and so on. So we have a challenge have our boxes at the workplace still go without a fan. Right? Because we have to get away with with much more heat from the device as we decode all the data. Right? And there, we have to think about our protocol, and I believe that protocol will be more like an open standard in the future. Right? When we joined the broadcast, community. There was a SDI, but the computers were like HDMI and so forth. And so we could could keep that apart. Right? There's a video workflow and there is a like a like a handling of all this. Right? But now what comes is things like JPEG Right? From SDI to SD twenty one ten and twenty one ten to transport all this. I mean, that's like twenty gig, twenty five gig fifty gig if you want to talk about uncompressed transmission. Right? And that's why we teamed up with Frunhofer, one of the creators of JPEG access and we do the hardware encoding and decoding right now. And so we will move as a company to a JPEG kicks excess based transmission, which gives you a one to ten, one to sixteen compression, right, with very high quality and it's exactly the same that you will use for your video transport. Right? So we are much more compatible with all that in the future. Sure. Alright. A little peek into the road map for IHSE. There you go. Dan, you know, ten eighty p h d r has become extremely popular. Obviously, with high speed cameras that are licensed at at different frame rates, you have to deal with different frame rates. The truck environment is much more complex in terms of multiple formats and higher resolution formats. Does KVM make your life easier when dealing in those types of environments. Just again, it probably goes back to the flexibility. Right? Yeah. It goes back to the flexibility in the user interface. I mean, really all on the video side, it kind of stole separate where the KBM really is the user integration to it. The video is separate. But I mean as the technology brings it to be able to take one dark fiber and bring the video, the audio, the data, and the KVM and not having to do, you know, discreet, you know, fibers just for the KVMM like we are now. I think it's definitely where we're all looking for and be great. Yeah. Absolutely. Mato, you have the added issue of, you know, gamers wanting to play in two hundred and forty megahertz sometimes and, you know, it's beyond four the four KDR conversation we're having, but that is also something that I'm sure, you know, impacts you. How are you dealing with all that. I mean these are some massive fat feeds of video. Right? Yeah. We're not. Gaming in esports. Right? Because it's high refresh rate, it's high resolution. It's not a standard. And that's the problem we ran into. And for years, it's the problem we ran into video games more and more are running at these high frame rates, hundred forty four hertz, two forty. Hopefully, we never go higher than that, please. And what we did for a while was some really janky solutions that didn't really work. Now, if you imagine a a five v five competition two forty hertz, you're able to run a KVM for each of those low latency. Right? Have someone backstage to be able to manage all those PCs, so you don't have to worry about the players or the competitors messing with things or doing the things or if someone goes wrong, you have a tech problem who can just tech guy who can just fix it. Right? But it's a challenge. And it's a challenge that esports is gonna see from grassroots with new fighting games coming out and being pushed to being on PC on high refresh rates. All the way up to the top, to the kind of your your s tier, League style games. Sure. Yeah. And it's just it's rough. Yeah. And it's it's there's gonna be a lot of learning though. You know, every challenge creates an opportunity. Just to follow about that two hundred forty hertz. Right? First time we heard about it, we were wondering whether that works. Right? But then we took one of our four k sixty extenders and it worked out of the box. Right? Because four k sixty is just the same like one k two forty. Right? So simple life can beat. Now you have a workflow which is based on sixty hertz in broadcasting, right, handling all the data, doing add ons, whatever. Right? How do you get this sixty hertz out to your broadcast studio. Right? And now comes a funny point. You have a computer and you think, well, the computer can do all that. No. It can't. It plays out two forty hertz and that's it. Right? So you can play out like two forty hertz and sixty hertz and whatever. Right? That does the KBM for you all of a sudden. Right? We take the two forty hertz in. We play it out to the gamer who can handle it with low latency and play there. But we can share that data into forty hertz into the training room and whatever, and we can play it out at sixty hertz right away into your studio. Right? And there comes an added additional benefit. So it's no more about KVM. It's so much about handling video signals and audio signals and whatever. And there we are to help. Yeah. Sure. Damn world is where it all kinda collide. Because instead of a camera we had the observer computers that, you know, was basically people walking around and that's your video form. So you have to really to bring the, you know, KVM user interface to the video world. Right. Yeah. At the observer mentality within an esports production lends itself to KVM. I mean, because it's inherently, you know, a data feed out of a computer. Right? Alright. Well, we are almost out of time, but we got one last lightning round question. Lightning lightning round question. There we go. Oh, okay. In thirty seconds or less, Give me one prediction on where you see KVM and display management technology headed in the next twelve to eighteen months thirty seconds, Mateo, and I will cut you off. Okay. Okay. Figure matrices, more IP access, more software. Perfect. Dan. I see it all going part of the cape IP, so it's one switch. It's all integrated for us. It's not this separate Close us out, you know. And we add to that the handling of video walls concurrently with a single workspaces. Gentlemen, thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks everybody else. I hope you get a nice rest for your feet and then you got a little bit of information as well. Have a great show.