Bringing Tech In: How Coffee Businesses Can Maintain Brand Identity While Enhancing Their Reach

Craft coffee business is filled with deeply passionate fans, but the economics have made it hard for independent coffee shops to survive in this highly competitive world. Labor challenges, supply chain issues, and high rents have made it hard to survive without scale. I wanted to get more insight on the current state of the coffee market. So I had Muied Abdulhadi, CEO, cofounder of Paxson Benificia Coffee, and the founder of Barista GPT to learn them. And effort like those. Shimmy shimmy, I got the semi phone, mate. Don't step out of the line like this to probate. You hit the line and try to locate. This might the time got time for no day with one. Welcome to another edition of the Kronos podcast. It's a coffee day, which is super exciting for me. I am joined by Muyad Abdulhadi, CEO and cofounder of Paxson Beneficiary Coffee and founder of Barista GPT. Thank you for joining me. How are you doing today? Good, man. Thank you for having me. It was exciting. Of course. My pleasure. So I am just a massive fan of coffee and the craft coffee scene. And, I have very vocally not a big coffee shop kind of guy. And so when I Vadio is really excited to talk to you because I've I've been really interested in the overall state of the coffee business. And, before we get into that, into the details, take a little bit, tell the audience your background, how you got into this, and, you know, and ultimately, what drew you to this business? Yeah. So my background is, digital marketing. And, out of I mean, I was a biology major out of school. Didn't know what to do with it. Learned marketing. So I started working my way up from agency client side and just working my way through the corporate ladder. But in the background, coffee was always there, right, through college and even after. Started developing it more as a hobby, and then it became more than a hobby. It's like, okay. When you visit any place in the world, what are the cool coffee shops to go to? Because in my view, that's kinda how you how you get a sense of a of an area of a city. You go visit the coffee shops whether it's high end or low end or hipster areas or whatever you see where people are getting coffee and hanging out. So just early on, it became kind of, in the back of my mind, okay. We'd love to I'd love to open a coffee shop one day. Right? And then I met my partner, Mamdur, through, mutual friends. We went on a trip together, and we went to Sweden and Norway, and those are incredible coffee countries, arguably ahead of our year, but the way they do their coffee is incredible. And, just as a part of the itinerary, a bunch of coffee shops, obviously. And then on that train ride from Stockholm to Oslo, and this is the marketing story on the website. I love telling it because it's a hundred percent true. It's not just a marketing story. We just started talking like, yeah. I'd love to open a coffee shop, and he also comes from similar background. He's like, yeah. I've I've always wanted to do that. He's a physician by trade. Right? So completely different for both of us. Right? Yeah. I'm background marketing business as a physician and a registered radiologist. We started talking about the concepts and what we do, and and we're like, yeah. This is this is really cool. And our wives were with them. They were just looking at us like we're crazy. Like, what are these guys nerding out about? And it was overnight training. We fell asleep, and he tapped me on the shoulder and says, hey. I got the name for the coffee shop. He's I said, okay. Fine. What is it? He says, Pax of Benezesia. It means peace and blessings. I was like, sounds perfect. Can I go back to sleep? So, went back to sleep. And then that's kind of the, like, that's kind of the rest of it. And then, that was kind of April twenty eighteen. And through the rest of the year, anywhere we'd both be, we'd just send each other kinda coffee shop pictures and menus and, oh, this is cool. I like how to do this and just get inspiration. And then found the location, our first location, Irving, had family business. I'm like, okay. This could be a great spot for it. Called him up, and I literally I said, I found a great location. You're actually ready to do this? And he said yes, and rest is history. And then from there, I we made so many mistakes as a lot of people do when they're opening a business or any any entrepreneurship venture. Right? So it was it was a lot of learn by fire and and building it out and and all the decisions and basically a design build at the time. And early on and then COVID hits. Right? Like, mark like, we're we're already opened August twenty nineteen, and then six months later, COVID hits. Right? So that was just a wild two two and a half years. But early on, we decided, okay. We had to make a decision. Do we wanna stay in one coffee shop, or do we wanna become a coffee company? Right? And the decision was was easy. We're like, well, no. We wanna this could be a really big brand. And from there, we just started getting more opportunities, opened our second one, and then we knew the next one after that, we'd wanna roast our own. And our third one, we had a roastery, and it's kind of our flagship we're all sitting now. And then, now we're at five locations. So five locations in four years. This is our fifth year of business. Again, I made a lot of mistakes, learned a lot, but we I think we're just scratching the surface on the on the on the company. Yeah. That's kind of the the the packs of metafizia coffee background. Yeah. And, yeah, where are we gonna go from there? Yeah. There's a lot of place. I I wanna start with, and we're gonna gonna tease your your newer venture that's a really interesting piece of this as well, and leveraging technology to be able to help independent brands grow. But I wanna take a step back and talk high level just about the current landscape of the independent Sure. Business. So, obviously, it's it's weird how, you know, even when Starbucks got started, it was still the same thing. Right? You had the big brands that were dominating a lot of the areas. Nobody's ever done it like they did, but it was always that because coffee is a very emotional thing. And it's it's a Mhmm. The coffee fanatics are very passionate about their coffee. Yeah. And we saw, obviously, through COVID, we're in a different situation now, but independent no matter what it is, whether it's restaurants, whether it's coffee shops, Most businesses like this are they have a lot of challenges. Right? Labor, things like that, biking. Talk to us a little bit about how you see just the landscape of the independent coffee business right now. Yeah. So it's very funny. Like, here in Dallas, especially so I think we started kind of we opened packs at the end of what is traditionally known as the third wave of coffee where it became a lot more specialty. And I think the Starbucks of the world paved the way for the third space and what we could become here. And then from, from there, the the coffee industry kind of changed. So becoming more, like, to your point, independent, especially coffee shops, local, high grade, high scoring coffees in the in the area, and then you could see kind of the roaster going back and forth, getting the coffees. But for here in Dallas, when we opened in August twenty eighteen, the Dallas market was still very, very fresh. There was only a handful of specialty coffee shops in the area in the city. And you and you remember this. You're from here. I think it was there was only, like, a handful of roasters. It was kinda just still a burgeoning scene. Right. And then in the five years since, not only have a lot of big companies emerge merged, now you have independent coffee shops almost in every locate in every area, which is fantastic. But, what I think is gonna happen eventually is I see it happen two ways. Right? Like, I think, one, people think coffee is a very high margin business, and it's not. Right? Like, in restaurants in general, like, if you're making fifteen to twenty percent, like, you're killing it. Yeah. And if you're in higher end areas and higher occupancy and higher labor to your point earlier, then that was also obviously kinda know our your margins. But what I foresee happening is a lot of these independent coffee shops are either gonna be bought out, they're gonna shift into something else, or they're gonna, kinda come together and have kind of a co op collaborative environment. Just because as a as a as a coffee shop, let's say, individual coffee shop, you're not unless you're behind the bar managing the cafe seven AM to five, seven PM, you're gonna have to pay a manager. You're gonna have to pay Marissa's just scratching your margins, which is kinda like the E Myth revisited type stuff. Right? Like, you start getting into your own way. And then, ultimately, I think everyone has to come to that decision. Do you wanna be a coffee shop or a coffee company? Right? And and and if people are comfortable having that coffee being that coffee shop and looking at them and and making it a thing that's admirable and respectful, but I think that's kind of direction that people are gonna have to go. Is it either go, like, combine forces and grow or, sell and and get out or keep keep growing. Right? So that's kind of the one side of the industry, which is a good and bad thing. I mean, it's good because especially coffee is everywhere. People should be drinking better bottled coffee. It's a bad thing because you hate people. You hate to see people do this kind of stuff, and then it's it it's tougher. Right? Like, I'm not even saying from a from a competitive perspective. I mean, DFW is a huge market. There's plenty of market share to go around. People moving here every single day. Yeah. It's more of, like, you just hate to see small businesses dying. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Especially when it's a commoditized product like coffee that was already commoditized, further commoditized, then it's just like, how do you differentiate your brand? Yeah. And then the other the other industry trends that are gonna affect everybody from people like us, like, who are at five locations to the people that are at fourteen, fifteen, twenty locations to the Starbucks of the world is further automation, further, technology implementation that I wouldn't say will eliminate the specialty coffee feel. It will kinda change the dynamics. Right? Like, for example, at PAX, we have I mean, we'll talk about it, I think, more here later, but, like, we have the AI ordering. We have the kiosks. We even have, and a lot of people are worried about this. I think this isn't specialty, but we've actually installed super automatic, Eversys, espresso machines. They just and the coffee and the milk tastes just as good as as it does from a a manual La Marzocco Strata and a manual grinder. Right? So, but that's all stuff to help improve workflows and and help with COGS, help with labor and stuff. While for us, at least, it still kind of supports that specialty coffee atmosphere. Right? Like, for even, like, when we when we launched all that stuff, we said clearly that it's not meant to replace anybody, not meant to cut labor. It's meant to give people both customers wanna order an easier way to order, another option. Maybe you don't wanna talk to a barista. And, also, for the baristas, this is gonna improve your workflow so you get drinks out faster, also improving the guest experience while not sacrificing quality. And, in fact, it gives you more opportunity to interact and engage with the customer to help grow that hospitality field that we want. Right? Which makes sense. I'm But I'd say as a I'm a black and healthy guy. And Mhmm. For people like me, you know, I don't I don't There's no reason to take a trained barista's time to make a black coffee for me, and so we automate that. Yeah. Makes all the sense. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And and and that those are kind of things I think everyone is gonna was gonna have to have to figure out how to how to live with, especially, I mean, honestly, with increased labor costs, increased COGS, inflation is real. Right? So all of this cuts in near margins. So you have to kinda make these tough decisions as a business owner is, okay, which direction is my company gonna take? And, for us, we're on the hundred percent technology adoption side of things. Right? Like, again, it's not meant to be a replacement. It's not meant to be a deterrent. It's meant to enhance what we're serving. And if we can serve our guests better, faster, easier without sacrificing quality, then then we'll we'll we'll get it. I think those are kind of, like, the the big industry things that I I always think about. I mean, you have other things coming, like, climate change will obviously impact coffee production and coffee costs. Right? So keeping a pulse on that, expanding coffee regions and what they're offering, have to keep a hold of that. And then as we enter now, what's industry known as the kind of getting into the fourth wave is how do you how do you position yourself in the market. Right? Whereas in third wave, you could really, really focus just on the coffee, and you'd do well. Right? But now the customers and guests generally want more of an experience, but that experience isn't just with the coffee. That's right. That's right. Like, even non coffee drinkers, like, matcha's killing it across the the entire world. Like, everybody wants manches now. Refreshers and and, coffee alternatives and caffeine alternatives. That kind of stuff is going crazy. Right? So for us at Pax and the Feats, it's like, okay. How do we how do we adopt some of these things again without sacrificing who we are, but just make it as part of our ethos. And then ultimately for us, adding food. Right? We this this q one, we added a lot more food items to the menu, right, to give people setting, an opportunity to to to to get a snack, sandwiches, and then how do you present it more in elevators? Those are all things that the industry is going to, and you have to adapt and and and evolve, or you're gonna be left behind. Yeah. It it's always so tough because I think a lot of people, there's a lot of when a new coffee shop opens up, a lot of excitement, people are, you know, people are are happy to support local coffee shops and, you know, support instead of going to one of the big brands. But then you mentioned it in a couple different ways is what are the economics for for a one off coffee shop. Right? And how do they actually sustain their model, which is really, really difficult? You mentioned coffee is not as high margin of a business as people think that it is, especially doing the way you guys do it. Sure. If you're just pouring from a, you know, a carafe or something and and grab and go coffee, maybe. But how do you guys because you mentioned food. You mentioned matcha. You mentioned these refreshers. A lot of that seems to fall into the really, really difficult decisions that business owners have to make is, are we adding more skews that get us further away from our core competency? And then how does that affect like, you mentioned those workflows, how does that affect or we take our eye off the ball in doing something that we're not really trained to do? And so walk us through that decision making process. Right? Adding through with entirely different, you know, set of Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and some of these other things. Walk us through, you know, how you guys evaluated that decision, what led to you guys doing it, and then, you know, what does that look like moving forward? So that's actually a very interesting one, and I'll walk you through from the beginning. So when we first started, funny enough, me and Mamduak, my partner, we said, we are not gonna do food. We're just a coffee and pastry company. Right? And then literally six months later and it's funny enough, we actually launched the so you remember when the, when, like, the whole world shut down? Like, it was that Denver Nuggets game Yep. And and the night before. Yep. Literally, the next day, the whole world shut down. Yep. That so that Sunday before that was a Tuesday, if I remember correctly. That Sunday before, we finalized all our Toast options, and and we said we're launching Toast. So we launched it that week. Right? Which in hindsight was actually, like, it was good that COVID hit because it allowed us to really kinda reset, but that's a different conversation. Yeah. So we're like so we went from not doing any food to, okay, let's start with toast. And the reason we did that was, again, we started seeing a lot more coffee shops doing toast, and we looked at our menu and said, okay. Is there a way we could fit this without sacrifice can we two questions. Can we do this where we're not sacrificing quality, where it adds revenue, and where we could do it in a way that it fits our brand? Right? Can the packs embedded easily? And the answers to all of them were yes. And it took us a while to develop those toast. Right? So so, like, our avocado toast, everybody has avocado toast, but what was our unique spend on it? It was more of a Mediterranean look and feel. We did a ricotta toast that has this, like, our own special blend of adding ricotta and and stuff. So all that to say, well, we had to make the decision because we needed to increase sales, and we needed to do it in a way that was still and fits our brand. So that was twenty twenty. And then fast forward to twenty twenty three, It was okay. Now it was different discussions. Well, in in those three years, the industry also changed. Right? A lot more, cafes from, like, Australian influence where Australian influence is more not just coffee, but it's, like, when you go to a coffee shop, even special to coffee, it's coffee and food. Like, Proud Mary is out of Austin, does this really, really well. And then you have other kind of people doing that, like, a foxtrot. They have sandwiches. And and so it just became kind of more of an expectation of, like, you can't just serve coffee and pastries and toast. You are if you're getting into third wave and getting more people, that want different things, then you have to give them something to to to to to be able to order. So but from the business side, it's like, okay. What are we actually launching? And it was the same kind of conversation. Can we do it tastefully? Can we do it where it doesn't impact, the workflows and doesn't overburden the, baristas? Can we do it in a way that it fits the packs and benefits of brand? So we hired a chef actually. Local, her name is chef Gigi Zimmerman. Shout out chef Gigi. She I I met her, through a friend, reached out to her and said, took her to our location because that one's kind of one that, like, the back of the house, which is kind of the smallest one. I said, okay. Here's the space we have. How do we build a food menu? We can add maybe one or two more pieces of equipment without adding we're gonna be in a full kitchen. So she developed a fantastic menu, like, with egg sandwiches and salads and, salmon bagels and, even a hummus plate, a fruit and cheese plate. Right? That all are things that we already have sandwich prep. We already have the first phase. So just we literally added one two more piece of equipment, a a countertop convection oven and a, panini press, and we were able to launch a food menu. Right? So, the rollout was was difficult. We rolled out one cafe at a time, a lot of trial and error, a lot of training, but our food sales went from nine percent to fifteen percent across the board. Well, that's a big a big jump, right, when you're going from a seven, eight, nine dollar toast to a twelve dollar, bagel. Right? Santa bagel. Right? And then now it's like, okay. We've we've perfected it. Now what else we can we do? So we actually have, another, food expert coming in and elevating the existing menu. Right? So now we can still offer those awesome savory and sweet food options for breakfast, lunch, or even an afternoon snack or afternoon snack while also still focusing on the coffee. We even evolved ourselves as a company. We've like, our Grapevine location, it's now more of a commissary. Right? We've took out we've taken out the prep work from the cafes, then we get more commissary here, which allows us to do a lot more and not relying on prep. So it it it we've kinda found that balance now, but the business decisions were still, does this fit our brand? Can we do this in a way that doesn't impact workflow? And what are and does it increase revenue while and the answer when all of them are yes. And there there were some dishes and some things that we we'd we'd have and be like, no. That's all too hard or we need this equipment or we need, and it was like, okay. X that out. We're not gonna add that. So I think you have I mean, from from my chair, I'm just personally just as an entrepreneur, I'm more of the go go go, like, MVP launch it, figure it out as you go type. Whereas, thankfully, I have, like, our director of ops. He's like he's always a devil's advocate. But he's like, what about this? And it kind of is a good. And my partner also, he's a he's a physician, obviously, so a scientist by trade. So he's always thinking about, okay. What are the so it's a good balance of people. And and somebody in my chair, I have to have those people around me to keep me kinda grounded. Yeah. And I have to be honest with myself and understand that there like, it's it's all positive intent. It's not nobody is impeding progress. It's like, can we do this in a way that Yeah. And and another example, this is actually something that we haven't done. I got I had a lead on, really affordable soft serve machines. Right? Well, you know, the Texas heat is crazy. So having soft serve would be really, really cool. I said it to my director of ops. He's like, this is cool. Love to do it if we could do it the PAX way. And I was like, spot on. Yeah. Right? Like, it's Yeah. If we can't do it the PAX way, then what's the point of having soft serve. Right? Yeah. We're not a McDonald's. And those are and those are the kind of discussions we have to have. Yeah. And you mentioned a couple things at beginning here, the the fact that you guys are roasting your own. You mentioned moving to more of a commissary model, which the most effective way seems like has been proven time and time again is the more economies as well you can get, the better, and that centralization really helps. Talk to us about what goes into the decision to start roasting your own coffee for, you know, for those that that that and and also take some time to talk to to some of the listeners that may not know and understand, you know, what are the pros and cons of that. Right? Because you're you are Yeah. A lot more responsibility on on your plate Yeah. To be able to do that versus just Yeah. With a ready made product delivered. So talk to us about what went into that. What stage you guys chose to do that? How many locations did you have open at that time? And what did that allow you to do, for the brand moving forward? Yes. So it came back to the earlier decision, which was do we wanna be a coffee shop or a coffee company? Right? And to be known as a coffee company, I think you have to just roast your own coffee. Like, you have to have your own you can white label. You can find other things, but there's there's a difference when you could say we source this green coffee, and we're roasting it our way. Right? And and and there's a there's a there's a brand elevation that comes with it. Before that, we were, Merit was our wholesale Merit Coffee out of San Antonio, and they have location Dallas was our wholesale partner. Fantastic. So So when we opened, our our third location, we said, okay. This is probably time to start our own coffee because we were seeing the amount of coffee we're ordering every week. We're like, okay. We did some back of the napkin math. Does it make more economic sense for us to roast our own coffee? For us, and I'll talk about us, I think that for us, we've had a tendency to put the cart before the horse. Right? So we always tend to build the infrastructure and then grow into it, which is, which is an interesting Mhmm. Problem. And using specific examples, like, we built the roastery, and, our roaster was a fantastic roaster. He knows how to roast coffees better as good as any great roaster in the country, but it never ran a roaster. Right? So from an economic business perspective, we were learning together on how to actually run our roasters profitably. And and now a specific example is that when we launched, we had, like, seven or eight coffees, on on as options when we probably should have started probably four. Mhmm. Well, how does that affect things? Well, just from having green coffee in your in your storage and in your warehouse, you're having to release those pallets, that's extra inventory that you're having to manage. Right? And those inventory costs are are pretty high. Right? So stuff like that, you just kinda kinda learn. But but, now we're at five locations. It's making all the sense to roast our own coffee. Right? Even when you factor in the roaster salary, the cost of the grain, the cost of the bags, even delivery, van cost. Right? It it just makes that kinda even if it's breaking even, it's we're not spending extra on on on roasting our own coffee. Right. So for for others, I would say either either, one, start roasting right away, but doing it in a very, very small methodical way, and don't go, like, don't go hire a roaster and build out a facility and and try to grow into it. Like, start doing it in a very, very sustainable small way and and then grow, versus what how we did it. And then, ultimately, I think even if you run one coffee shop, you can start roasting, but you're gonna be roasting for a few hours every week because you're not doing the volume unless you're a really busy coffee shop, which there are some of those. There's a lot of those all over the country. But as you add more locations and build that wholesale and build that retail and and direct and d to c, then it becomes a lot more, it makes a lot more sense to start listing them. Yeah. What and you mentioned the DTC piece, and you guys sell yours, direct consumers as well. You sell it online. I'm sure you you buy it in a location as well. Mhmm. How have buyers' preferences changed? I think people there's always that there's always the old, you know, the the boomer move of, you know, these kids would stop going out and spending so much money on coffee and make it at home. Yep. You know, they'd be able to buy a house. And you mentioned the avocado toast as well, and and, man, you guys are killing the Yeah. That's a big one. But so how how have preferences changed both in what are they looking for in the store? You mentioned, you know, looking for more matcha and and refreshers, things like that. But how has preferences changed on making coffee at home? Are you guys seeing more people shifting to buying in bulk and and making it at home? What does that look like? Yeah. I would say it's, it's it's it's a growing thing for us. Like, we're not we're not a level of, like, a blue bottle or Onyx or Intelligentsia. These big companies are, doing a lot of d two c yet, but that is something we're investing heavily in this year. But from a from a retail perspective and it's funny. Like, when we launched ecommerce last year, we we told our teams and the store is like, hey. Start pushing ecommerce, like, they can subscribe and and and just to grow that that part of the business. And funny enough for us, people would tell our baristas, yeah. I know I could buy it online. I just like coming into the store and buying coffee. Mhmm. Right. Which is that because which is normally equivalent to buying the bag and buying a a drink. Right. Right? Which for us is like, oh, that's fantastic. So so the the I think the trend has continued going up. I think people are enjoying making their own coffee at home more. There's an entire world of home baristas right now where five to ten years ago, I think it was still coming up. But now, literally, I think most of my friend group and they're not really even coffee drinkers. They have a Breville espresso machine at their house. People are making pour overs and Chemex as they're looking at these things, and it's become kind of a almost, a status symbol to say that you are a specialty coffee drinker, and you make your own coffee, and you could do latte art, and you could dial espresso, and you like these beans, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So, I mean, we see we like, everyone's on TikTok and Instagram, and you see, like, the constant flow of people just making coffee at home. So, it's a good thing. Like, it's a it's a great thing. Right? Again, I come back to what I said earlier. It's like, it's I'm glad people are making better coffee. Right? Like, there's no reason and it's not that much more expensive. Right? But there's no reason for you to be stuck with Folgers all your life. Right? Or Keurig cups or whatever. Which I mean, obviously, they have their markets, but you know what? You can like, I I tweeted this the other day is, like, you can change your life with a hundred dollar investment just in, like, hand grinder, a Lisa Hario b sixty, and filters, and just go to your local roaster and and buy a bag of coffee. And your your morning will change because you could taste the the the difference in the coffee. So I think people are getting to that, and and that forces us as a coffee company to to make sure it's appealable to everyone as well. Yeah. And you mentioned a couple times, you know, doing it the PAX way and and the brand that you have. And and so what are you guys seeing let me let me ask it this way. From when you guys started, you know, on on the train and and when you guys really got started late in twenty nineteen to now. How do you guys approach, you know, constantly thinking about what your brand is and and and outreach and staying true to that brand. Talk to us a little bit about how you developed it, and then how are you continuing to get that brand out there. Yeah. So that's that's a very good question because we're we're still kind of, going through multiple like, we're going to rebrand right now. So when we first started, we knew we wanted to be a modern coffee shop with, influences from different parts of the world specifically. And it was seen in Spain, Turkey, the Middle East, and even Scandinavian. Right? So right off the bat, we weren't, overtly cultural ethnic coffee company. Right? The reason I say it because we wanted to be a modern coffee shop. We wanted to be able to everyone, but we wanted to infuse some of our own culture and background and experiences into it. Right? In summary, we built we wanted to build a coffee shop that we'd go to. Right? Like, for us. And and it I guess other people love it too, which is it turned out great. But then as the market has changed, like, there's a lot more competition, obviously. But I I was a competition. Again, market shares, everything, but, like, there's plenty of market share to go around. But it's like there's a lot of other opportunities in that, very specific culture side of things. Right? Like, for example, here in Dallas, there's been a proliferation of Yemeni coffee shops. Right? And and I love those coffee shops. I love what they're doing. They're supporting the coffee farmers back in Yemen, war torn refuge. Like, it's just been crazy what's happening there. And these coffee shops are importing coffee from their homeland and and and and then putting together a menu that really, really depicts Yemeni culture. Well, that's fantastic. But for us as a as a as a company that's kinda started on that cultural side, we've kind of okay. When people are going that way, let's kind of position and differentiate ourselves the other way. Mhmm. Right? So we're still kind of that modern coffee shop, with, with influences from different parts of the world. For example, this past year, our director of ops, he's Mexican origin, and he put together a fantastic, cafe dolle type syrup. And we have, like, our chatea mix. We're able to infuse some Mexican, culture in our in our in our drinks. We had a Spanish bambon last year, and now we had a Spanish latte, right, so from Spain. We have Turkish coffee on our menu. Right? So it's we're still we're still that modern coffee shop, but we we've infused some of these flavors and experiences from other parts of the world without being overt and in your face. And now as we move forward in our rebrand, the the the same elements are the same. Right? Like, at our core, packs of beneficia means peace and blessings. We strive to be a source of both for the communities and people that, communities ran and the people that come through our door, whether it's team members and, guests. And and we really believe in what we call the honored guest experience. Right? So if we look at everything through that lens, then then we make decisions based on those things. Right? Like, from okay. If our locations need new furniture, is it more seating for does it further that on our guest experience, or does it take away from it? Does adding a, a new menu item further that guest experience, or does it take it away took away from it? And we tried it, like, even we just redid our website completely to focus more on d two c and e ecommerce and kinda showcase our coffee as well. That should help the people that are buying online. And then if you wanna learn more about locations, you still can. Right? So all of this rebrand is is a part of continuing on that trend of, okay, continuing to grow the brand as we add more locations, as we grow d two c, as we, build that brand out, and we're we're like, we were just at SCA in Chicago. So we went five people, and and and we met a lot of vendors and and Fellow Coffee professionals. So as our name grows, continuing to be a place that that is both peace and blessings and an honor and best experience for everyone. Yeah. It's impressive that just after four or five years already having to think about, you know, a rebrand and and moving forward because you're a different company now, especially with a couple weird years there at the beginning that, you know, we've all kinda lost track of. Before we get going, and and we could just talk about this all day long, but I wanted to hit on you you mentioned technology and automation a couple times here, and so I wanted to talk a little bit about Barista GPT and what led you to developing that, what problems is it solving. So talk to us about that just from creation to now and what the future looks like for it? Yeah. So I am again, my background is digital marketing. Always been, like, in the startup tech world even though now I'm in coffee. Right? But it's always kind of how how I start yeah. How I how I how I started my career. Like, even before, like, all of this, like, I had a app developed and I sold it and and all this stuff. So, small scale, but still. So when OpenAI released GPT two point I think it was three or two point five at the time. This was October twenty two. Yeah. October twenty two, around that time. Right? I think everyone went on there and was like, oh my god. Like, this is terrible. Like, and I was and my kind of, light bulb moment happened. So I was in, actually, Columbia with a a friends of mine, and they, they were getting ready, and I was waiting for them. And I was on Twitter, and I saw a thread about a guy that said, yeah. I just created a Chrome extension just by asking challenging the two questions. I was like, interesting. Let me see if I can do that. And I could do that within forty five minutes. I had a working Chrome extension installed on my laptop where I could put in a ZIP code and it gave me a list of, coffee shops in the area organized by, reviews. Right? So I'm not a coder. Right? Like, I don't know how I know very basic HTML and CSS. I was just asking Taggypity how would I build this, what's the code look like, and then copying and pasting it in a code editor and asking you how to deploy it. So I was like, that was my, like, oh my god. Like, my mind blown. Like, the world just changed, so everything just changed. If I could build, like, a a Chrome extension with no code expertise, then imagine what else you can do. So from there, I started thinking of, like, okay. How can I apply it to anything just to see what we can build? And, naturally, the first thing is the coffee company is like, how can we apply here? And initially, Barista GPT was just gonna be a, q and a type customer service. What What are your hours? What's your menu? What are some drink options? Do you have non dairy alternatives? Mhmm. Stuff like that. And I said, okay. Wait a minute. For it to actually be a good platform, you need to actually add ordering. So then, like, okay. So I I I, old developer friend of mine, reached out to him. I said, hey. You wanna build this with me? I had already built kind of a very, very basic working demo. Mhmm. I basically, like, uploaded our entire menu, and I started asking questions about the menu. And I was like, okay. This is really cool. Talked to him, and we built a working prototype. And then for the next six months, just kept on improving it, improving the model, improving the mark, prompting until we could get it to a place that was brought ninety percent accurate, and then we launched. So it's meant to be another ordering avenue. Right? So you have your kiosks, you have your in person, you have your phone. This is another opportunity to capture. And for people that need to ask a lot of questions, this is a great opportunity for them. So what it does for the cafe, right, like, we talked about kinda labor cost and and improving customer flows. That's one angle. But then as we as we're kinda still working on this bridge on this platform, the growth is gonna be in the two areas. One, it's gonna eventually, I think, be a loyalty play, right, using AI to further solidify customer retention. For example, like, we added a feature that said, hey. Do you wanna save your order? So now next time you log in, it says, welcome back. Do you want your usual today? Right. Just like as if you're interacting with a brief search. Right? So that kind of stuff. And then the other side of it is, like, where can we add stuff that makes it applicable to other, restaurants and industries. Right? And I'll use two specific examples, like, mom and pop pizza shops and or, like, a burger joint. Right? Like, they get calls probably all day. Like, sure, people can order online, call an order, but they probably get calls. I imagine how many missed opportunities and missed revenue there is by just not answering your phone because you're so busy. Right? Especially, like, family owned small restaurants. Right? So that solves that for them because you could do breeze to GBT through the phone. You can do it through the web interface. But then what other ordering platforms are there? And and this is actually one that came up recently was, there's a lot of these I mean, I'm sure you've seen them. These, like, warehouses popping up that do, discount clearance type of where they get return goods from Yep. Amazon and sell out a discount. Yeah. Right? Imagine all that inventory on a Barista GPT like platform that you can order with, right, instead of having to ask. Right? And then you could add other channels. So all that to say, our mission went from, being an ordering platform for coffee shops to making ordering as seamless as possible through as many channels as possible, which gets easily done through LLMs and and, Chad GPT. That's extremely exciting. Remember when I first saw Bruce to GPT, definitely, the light bulb went off in my head. I was like, oh, man. This is this is very much needed for any I mean and you mentioned it in a couple different ways, but, ultimately, if you're an independent coffee shop, you're a one off, or maybe, you know, two locations. If you're not embracing technology and automation wherever you can, it's just too difficult to succeed. And so it's always great, I'm sure, for them being able to have something that was created by somebody that truly understands what their situation is and has walked in their shoes and is is giving an an opportunity to solve a specific challenge, not just, hey. Here's something that somebody else created off the rack. Yep. You have to try and fit in. It was created with that DNA in mind. Yep. Yep. Yeah. I mean and then, like, right now, it's just okay. So the platform, I said, it'd be one of the platforms up and running. We're still growing it, trying to add new features, self-service type stuff. And then it's it's finding more of these different industries to be customer zero and say, hey. Help us build what you need us to build. Right? And and keep growing it. Right? And and who knows what this might be? And and for me, like, I I I do this stuff, and and, honestly, like, if it becomes a unicorn, great. Multimillion dollar revenue, great. If it's just another notch on the belt of something cool that we did, also great. Right? Like, it's not like, there's there's there's that sense of satisfaction. Like, you know what? You could keep launching cool stuff. Right? Keep opening and and doing cool things that that help people and upgrade businesses. Definitely. Well, you've been very generous with your time. I appreciate it. Love getting to talk about a lot of different stuff here, not only just macro coffee trends, but also how you guys are you know, have you evolved in in what the future looks like and and brand and everything. Wanna finish up with the segment I always end on, which is my Mount Rushmore segment where I ask my guests to give me their top four. It would be on your Mount Rushmore, of of different things. And for you, I figured there's no better question. They give me your Mount Rushmore, your top four coffee cities in the world. That's a good one. So one, I'd say right now is Dubai. Their their coffee scene is ahead of ours by probably five years. It's not a decade. Interesting. And when when you say that, what do you mean? So there's so, generally, the population like, there's a lot of of Muslims, so they don't drink. A lot of them don't drink. Right. So they go to coffee shops. Right. Right? So it forced the entire industry to do such an elevated experience at every single coffee shop you go to, Not only from the coffee shop aesthetics and ambiance, but, like, there's a ton of roasters. Like, I went to the Royal Oak Coffee Expo there, and it was incredible because at the expo, there were more non industry people, people that don't work in industry than industry people there asking questions about the coffee, asking questions about, what like, the roasting the roast they were on roasters bill. I was trying to all roast. There was Roasters Village there was double the size of the Roasters Village at the biggest s, coffee expo, which was just here in Chicago last week. So that's why I'm saying back like that. They're way ahead of like, there, and and I would say that region in general, I'd say, is the coffee is incredible, Dubai specifically. Two, I'd say Tokyo, Japan. Their coffee like, their coffee scene. Yeah. That's not that's not a very Tokyo. You don't think of Japan a lot of times with coffee, but not coffee. Yeah. Yeah. Their their their coffee is incredible. Where else? I'd say, probably Seoul, Korea, sim for similar reasons. Right? Like, agents take their, that side of the world. The agent market there takes copy very, very seriously, and the stuff they do there is very, very cool. And fourth, I mean, more stateside, I would say, I I probably like, if you asked me five years ago, they said, like, Seattle, Portland. Sure. But now I'm probably saying LA and LA greater LA area. The stuff happening there, like, Verve Coffee just won the roaster of the year, I think, for I think it was twenty three and twenty four or one of them. But also a lot of other brands, like the Boyman Bear, in SoCal, like, the brands there are just doing some really cool stuff, and I think they're getting ahead of everybody else in the US. So I mean, mean, if I wanna add a fifth head, it'd be Dallas just for obvious reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Because you guys deal with four heads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great that's a great and and I love asking that question because usually we find some different answers than a lot of people would think about. And so Yeah. I'm glad you hit on those four. It's a really cool mix of cities there in a lot of different ways. And so, thank you so much. I I really appreciate it. Where can everybody find you? Not only Pax and Beneficia, but if they've got questions about Barista GPT, where should everybody go to get Sure. So I'm on Twitter, Instagram. My name, m o u y y a d a on Twitter and Instagram. Also, Breeze GPT dot com, Paxton Minnet PCA dot com. I'm on LinkedIn too. Love to connect. Awesome. Thank you so much again for your time today. I appreciate it. We look forward to having you on when you figure out whatever the next avenue that you guys are gonna conquer is and and grow Okay. The different markets or something like that. But, thank you again so much. I appreciate it for thank you for coming on. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Alright. Talk to you soon.