The Rise of Personalized Nutraceuticals: Vitaquest Taps Big Data, Flavor, and AI to Deliver Personalized Wellness at Scale

What's going on, y'all? It's Daniel Litwin, the voice of b two b, and welcome to another episode of Experts Talk, your go to hub for deep dives, discussions, and debates on some of the biggest trends, technologies, timely topics, you name it, shaping the most important b to b verticals. Again, welcome back to the show. If you're joining us again, you may have noticed we've been dabbling more in some of our one on one interviews with more focused storytelling around some of those experts who are guiding the future of each of our most important industries. And we've got another jam packed episode today with a great guest who's got some powerful experience around the world of nutraceuticals and the larger personal care industry. Before we dive in, though, I wanna make sure you're all caught up on our previous conversations and all of the roundtables we've done over the years as well. Plenty of timely topics there that still remain relevant. So make sure you're going to our website market scale dot com. Add a slash industries at the end there, and you'll find our publications page. Head to our experts talk page, and you can see a wealth of different conversations across every vertical you can conceive of. Everything from the economy of space to retail technology to construction management workflows, we've covered it all, and there's more to hit on too. So hit me up as well if you're looking to get in the Experts Talk hot seat. Alright, folks. Let's dive in. In this episode of Experts Talk, we're gonna dive deep into the science and the strategy behind innovation in the nutraceuticals and personal care industries. So this is where we're seeing cutting edge research meet real world proactive and reactive product development. From pioneering advancements in biologically active ingredients to setting new standards in clinical research and technology transfer, we're gonna get to unpack these trends based on the tangible experience of today's guest who himself is shaping the future of consumer health and wellness. Now let's get a little deeper and paint the the scene here a little bit. Right? Set the stage. The health and wellness industry at large is in the midst of a transformation. Consumers are demanding more than just supplements and skin care. Right? They want clinically backed science driven solutions that deliver real results, and the ecosystem that supports these products is now having to attune its operations and its research to meet those demands. At the same time, we're seeing regulatory scrutiny tightening. We're seeing new ingredient technologies emerging, and brands are under pressure to differentiate in an increasingly crowded market. Right? The personal care industry, has, you know, really taken root in a way that we hadn't seen even, you know, ten years ago. So the challenge here now is turning cutting edge research into commercially viable products, right, that are not only effective but also scalable and, of course, trusted by consumers. Now this is where today's guest comes in. We'll go ahead and pull him up on screen here. I'd like to welcome Michael Antonovich. He's VP of innovation at VitaQuest, and he spent over two decades leading r and d initiatives at industry powerhouses like J and J, Eurofins, Advantage Specialty Ingredients. Michael, welcome to the show. How are you doing today? Thanks, Daniel. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, man. Looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to chop, chopping it up with you today, talking shop. This is a topic we haven't covered on the show yet, and so you're kinda helping set the stage for hopefully some future, you know, heated debates as well. So looking forward to having you here. For just a little more context on Michael for our audience here, he's an expert in clinical research, technology transfer, and biochemistry that drives real product efficacy. So whether it's pioneering biologically active ingredients, refining sensory science, navigating the complex intersection of science and consumer demand, Michael here has been at the forefront of that innovation. So some of the topics we're hoping to cover together with Michael today include things like how flavor innovation is becoming a differentiator in the space and giving brands a competitive advantage, how advanced manufacturing and particle engineering are reshaping, nutraceutical development, and how we're seeing personalization and data driven nutraceuticals start to shift the entire landscape, right, driven by AI, consumer data, nutrigenomics. Right? So much to unpack here. We're probably not gonna get to it all, but we're setting the state for future episodes too. So, Michael, let's dig in. I want to paint another picture here of some of the evolution we're seeing in this industry so our audience understands what is leading us to our conversation here today. Right? So the nutraceutical landscape is evolving rapidly. I've said that a few times, but what does that actually mean? What is evolving in your view? What are some of the key forces that are driving innovation in this industry today? Yeah. It's a great question, Daniel. I I think when you when you kinda take a macroscopic look at the current state of the union, you can actually see the progress that's been made over the last ten or fifteen years. I mean, the sup the vitamin and supplement industry is more than just taking pills now. Right? It's more than just taking a multivitamin. It's more than just taking, protein powder. Right? I I think I think with the advent of personalized health, twenty three and me, genomics, every every every department of medicine actually has its specialty. Right? So when you go to a GP, that's just kinda like your ticket in. And then after that visit, you have to go see your specialist, whether it be on, you know, GI guy, you know, a neuro a neurologist, an orthopedics guy, whatever. Everything is becoming so specialized. And at the same time, the consumer's getting more information constantly, especially on on formats like this, TikTok, social media. And what it's bringing into question is that you have to take rather complex biology, biochemistry, manufacturing operations and kinda turn this into common speak for people to actually get it in order to then realize the next evolution of the industry. So I think we're we're really at a at a at a golden age, so to speak, where it it's actually erupting with innovation all around us because we're I come from the cosmetic side of the world, before joining before entering into the vitamins and supplement industry. So a large part of that outside of efficacy in trying to make you look younger, make you look healthier was the sensorial piece to it. And I'm bringing that into the mindset of vitamins and supplements, and people don't equate the two Right. Until you demonstrate that you can. Right? So there's lots of technologies out there, and and we'll discuss this as we go through through the program today. But all of a sudden, people go, I didn't know that existed. Or how what can I get away from taking seven, eight pills or capsules and and going into, let's say, a ready to mix drink or direct to mouth format or or biofilms or sublingual? Right? So the possibilities are are virtually endless at this point, and they're and they're basically limited on the available chemistry that's out there or how we apply that chemistry. Yeah. I love the picture of, you know, the Monday through Sunday box of pills, you know, and each box per day has ten pills, and you're taking all the vitamins and supplements. You know, that was standard even up until a few years ago for most people. You know, their, medicine cabinet was stocked with each of the unique different supplements and vitamins and pills, that would kinda make up their, their lineup. Right? But you're bringing up a good point here that, as customers at large look for personalized solutions for all of their needs, whether it's personalized technology products, whether it's personalizing, you know, their, most fundamental, basic aspects of their day to day, like getting their groceries or their transportation. That's obviously gonna make its way to something so fundamental as personal health. And so I'm glad you brought up, you know, things like sensory innovation. We're gonna get into that here in a second. But I wanted to, I guess, lay out a little bit more of how some of these trends are shaping the infrastructure around the trends as well. Right? Things like, you know, investment in proper, you know, tools and resources and equipment to manage this needed innovative research, the regulatory ecosystem that will kinda define the boundaries of the research that's possible and how, you know, you have to both look ahead, but also operate within the current bounds of the ecosystem. So tell me a little bit about how as these innovations take hold, you anticipate that, you know, the the market is gonna have to respond with these kinds of proper investments and regulatory shifts. Are those aligned yet, or is there more work that needs to be done to match the kind of energy that's pushing innovation forward in the nutraceuticals industry? Yeah. Well, it definitely has to be co coevolve. Right. I mean, I I I I I really like to use the example that to your point, it's it's not a it's not a pill capsule box, you know, wake up in the morning, take take my handful of pills mindlessly, and then go about my day. I I look at it from kind of a an herbal medicine perspective. Right? If you've ever made tea, like, actually made tea, like, you have to make tea with a purpose. Right? You don't really boil the water too long. You have to steep it for as as long as, you know, you you'd like the the intensity to be. And and it and it's a process. It's actually a focal point for you to concentrate on why I'm drinking the tea in the first place. It's not just, hey. Pour me a cup of coffee. Let me get to my next meeting. I mean, that's our lives, and and that's the convenience of taking pills. Right? Because you're on the go. But I think the industry is is start starting to lean into this a little bit more because of the personal aspect of it and and the individuality of what I'm looking to accomplish because it's about my health. It's not about the statistical clinical study health that I read about. Right? I am I am one person, and I am the individual. So the expectations on the market to to deliver on that become a little complicated because I can't make fifteen versions of the same thing because you like to take it in the morning and your sister likes to take it in the afternoon and your brother likes to take it in night. So these are different skews and as a contract manufacturer, bring it on. Right? If you can meet my MOQs, I'll make as many things as you want. However, in order to actually lead the pack on this, companies like ourselves have made significant investments in the way we process ingredients. Right? So what we're we're think of us as as a kitchen. Right? You go to a restaurant and you see the menu and you order from the menu expecting whatever you order to come out in an expected way. Right? You have a predetermined, hey. You know what? I like I like that meal. You already your brain is already expecting what it's gonna taste like. So I wanna wow you. Right? I wanna bring it out with a good presentation. Not only will it taste good, but the presentation should should complement the taste. Right? The service should complement the menu. The the the ambiance should should make it good for conversation in in my party. Right? So it's a combination of of of all these things that kinda add up synergistically to create a a wow factor. So how do we do this? Well, well, we have we can apply all the chemistry knowledge in the world, but we have to make sure that it complies to label regulations and that we put these particular ingredients and processes in a place where they're transparent so people can understand what we're actually offering. Right? Working for companies in the past that have the greatest intentions and the greatest safety profiles along their portfolios, sometimes things just get missed. Heavy metals is is a big thing, especially from from ingredients that are derived from the earth. So does the average consumer know that? But if you bring up arsenic and you bring up nickel and you bring up, lead, all of a sudden their ears go up and they're like, that's in here? Why is that in here? Right? So flavor masking, right, and probiotics. So we'll we'll we'll see that, you know, sometimes putting in certain flavors, into a probiotic formulation actually kills the bugs. Your intention isn't to do that. Your intention is to make it taste better and to attract bigger audience, but yet I'm defeating the actual purpose of taking the supplement in the first place. So the regulatory and the PD folks, it it's always a juxtaposition for advancement. Right? The one will get in front of the other and then the other the one that's behind is gonna be like, you know, really? You know, do I have to go this way? Alright. Because everybody wants their creative freedom to blossom in their own direction, but at the same time, what we're supposed to deliver is a is a safe, effective, transparent product. So that's the mantra, when we're in at VitaQuest, at least, because we're we're responsible for that. Right? And we're responsible not only to the public that we make this for, but we're we're responsible to the brand that wants to sell it. So we never put them in a position of of compromise. Sometimes these ingredients cost more money to achieve the effect that they want, and then it becomes a trade off conversation like, oh, well, maybe we can't afford that, you know, for the price that we wanna sell it for. Or our audience isn't our demographics aren't you know, they don't have the disposable income that we're looking to sell this product for. So, therefore, that kinda changes the the design of the product a little bit. So I think it's important to take these things all into consideration. And one of the one of the nice things about the way VitaQuest operates is that we're very matrix oriented. All of these departments kinda come together at strategic times along the the development process to make sure that we dot our i's and we cross our t's from a quality perspective, from a regulatory perspective so that the innovation and the product development teams can really shine. And that's what impresses our brands that that we that we back or or or serve. And as I always say to our salespeople, the true success of our work is a repeat is repeat business. Right? Loyalty. Come back. Let's do it again. Right? Come back and say we need more. Come back and say this was such a success. I wanna be over here now. Right? And and that's that's music to our ears. I love how you're, you know, laying out this, very dynamic interplay between all the moving pieces that make, you know, a product go from idea to actually hitting the market shelves. And, you know, I I appreciate the kind of give and take dialogue here too. Right? Because so many of these innovations around personalization, you know, because we are still in an innovative period for a lot of said research and, you know, a lot of the ability to scale said research into an affordable product, it often means that maybe some of these trends that are driving innovation are also having to force brands to determine, well, is this going to be widely accessible? Are we going to have to now market this as a premium product? You know, and is our customer base willing to, you know, evolve to say, well, yeah, we want that personalized flavoring. You know, we want this to, you know, be recommended our way based on all of these other, you know, pieces of consumer data and health data we're gathering for ourselves. I was like, well, yeah, then we are willing to pay the premium for that or not. Right? And so, I love seeing those market dynamics play out in real time, and that's something that we'll explore probably in a future conversation. But I wanna get into the actual research innovation here now. So you mentioned sensory differentiation. You know, this connects a lot with flavor innovation as well. And we've seen a growing focus on sensory experiences and supplements as you said. Right? How do you think that flavor innovation, which you also mentioned this, right, was once a hallmark of the food sector, is now reshaping consumer expectations for nutraceuticals. Right? Has that sensory and flavor differentiator gotten to the point where customers are shopping for that yet, or are we still kind of in the dip our toes in the water phase where, consumers are trying out that transition from the pillbox to the, you know, mixed drink, for example. Yeah. Give us your breakdown there. Yeah. So so flavor only matters if it stays in your mouth. Right? Right. So product format really drove flavors into the spotlight because prior to powder drinks and and stick packs and sublingual and things that have to have some playtime in the mouth, we were just putting it in our mouth, taking a slug of water or coffee and and and shooting it down, and flavor didn't matter. Now it does because we're getting away from from the the tablet format, so to speak, and that's evolved into chewables. Now chewables, obviously, by definition, spend more time in your mouth. So now we have to make sure that the ingredients in the chewables, which are are in there because of some clinical benefit, the why, you know, why am I taking this particular chewable needs to perform in a way that's consistent and consistency is the hallmark of of clinical efficacy. I can tell you that from experience because working in a clinical testing laboratory, one of the hardest things to do is to keep compliance. You can pass out your clinical test articles to to a hundred and fifty people and you're banking on them taking it at the same time every day in a routine so when they come back for evaluation that something actually happened. So sensory is a big piece of that. So flavors are not only there to help the consumer hold on to the therapeutic plan that they had by taking this because you consciously say, hey. Listen. I'm gonna take something for six to eight weeks, or I'm gonna go through this bottle and see, well, does it make a difference? And then if it does, I'm gonna buy it again because it improved my health. And I'm buying it again because I like the way it tastes. I like my experience with it. So different formats, different categories, different consumer age groups, different subcultures within the market, whether you're a a gym rat or or you're a construction worker or you're a stay at home mom, everybody's gonna have these slight different, preferences towards flavor and what they what those flavors mean to you. Remember, smell is very closely tied to taste. So smell is the most remembered sense that you have. So smell and aroma, therefore, taste have a very big impact impact on on your desire to participate and and and the why you participate. We haven't figured out flavors for mom's tomato sauce yet, and we haven't figured out the the the taste for spare ribs or barbecue yet. But, I mean, it's been thought about, and it's been talked about. But you'll see things like Lychee. Right? So VitaQuest actually ventured out in front and said, hey. Listen. We're gonna have flavor of the year. Right? We came up with this, concept looking at consumers, consumer data. We have customers in all the time, and we're asking, you know, what are your favorite flavors? Where do you like to see this go? And and Lychee is one of those nice fruity floral notes. It's refreshing, and we were contemplating this for the spring and summer trends. Right? Because these this this particular flavor plays well in hydration and energy and greens and sleep. So these are these are categories that are stalwarts within the vitamin supplement industry, and we see the most growth in some of these categories as well. So in order to differentiate customer a from customer b, you don't wanna go out with the same thing that your consumer or your competitor is doing. So you you have taste as a differentiator. You can literally almost have the same efficacy ingredients within your formulation, but if it tastes different, it behaves different because people gravitate towards it differently. Right? So you you you almost take on a personality by giving your formulation a flavor. You give it a personality. And I love that because that's what differentiates my product from your product and and your product from the product next to it on the shelf. So when customers get scoopfuls of things and put it in water and mix it up or watch it effervesce or or do whatever it's supposed to do, that flavor is is your first contact before any efficacy happens. So it it's kinda like the first date with your supplement. Right? If it goes well, you're going back for more. I love that you brought up the, the twenty twenty five flavor of the year. I actually had that in my question lineup, but you beat me to the punch. I was hoping to surprise you guys. I know when I did my research. But but, yeah, that's that's a really great example because I think it speaks to the fact that, nutraceutical innovation is having to evolve into lifestyle brand types of change, you know, for its products. And now that's having to inform the hard science and the research and the product development. I mean, when we think of Lecce as a a flavor, that comes with a whole culture of other brands, how people, like, literally express themselves and dress. I mean, you know, going and getting my boba tea in the morning. You know? That you're you're floating in the same ecosystem here now. Right? And so designing products with that in mind speaks to not just, specific health outcomes, right, that a consumer might be looking for, but how those health outcomes fit into a wider, picture of customer habits, of lifestyle decisions, and how those all kinda speak to each other and almost help give a sense of self to the consumer who's now buying this product. Right? Before, it's just I need my vitamin d, grabbing my vitamin d off the shelf, and I take that every morning. This is a chore. But now it's, you know, my vitamin d is part of this, you know, mix that I put in my drink, and it's my favorite flavor. And I put it in my Stanley tumbler, and I take it to work every morning, and it matches my whole vibe. And it right. So it's I I'm curious how you guys at VitaQuest bridge that downstream reality that, your innovation is having to inform almost, like, lifestyle decisions for the consumer. How is that guiding the work you do in the lab, the innovation that you do that is is some of the hard research, the product development. Right? Bridge that gap for us and some of the data that you lean on or some of the customer insights you lean on to help inform, your research. Yeah. It's funny you you said it that way. You you gotta listen to the customer. Yeah. And you gotta keep your eyes and your ears open on how society behaves. We're not the first people in the world to say leachate flavor is is good. Right? However, what we did notice from data is that there's about a twenty four, twenty five percent increase in the last four years of Lychee flavored products in the universe. Right? What's that universe? Primarily, the eighty twenty is beverages, desserts. Right? Where do you see lychee nuts? You're usually in Asian food in a dessert. Right? It it's there. If you haven't seen it, it's it's a curious thing. Right? You get this, like, spiny little red fruit and put put in front of you on a table, and people have never tried leach and nuts are like, oh, what's that? And then see, you cut one open and you see that it's it's fleshy. It looks it looks refreshing just to even look at it. So we've seen not only in in the beverages and the desserts, but when you take that to the next level, you start to see this in mixology clinics. And and when you go to, like, IFT or you go to flavor houses and you go to these conferences where food is the predominant context for for for the innovation. And now you're starting to see blends of of different flavors that were never put together before. I mean, I can remember a few few years back, I I I spent a serious amount of time in front of one of these, cayenne pepper distributors where they literally titrated their their their flavor into different kinds of chocolate. And how that made the chocolate change was incredible. So that same chemistry, that that food science chemistry is now part of vitamins and supplements, and it wasn't before. Right? So it's kinda like the first guy that said, hey. I was trying to make this glue, but it didn't come out too adhesive. But you know what? Let's put this on the back of little yellow cards and call it post it stamps, or it doesn't pull the paint off the wall. And I'm sure the first guy that's that brought that up, you know, didn't really understand the impact of that or or the person that put water in a bottle. Right? Sometimes the obvious is so obvious that it doesn't get thought of. So when you when you when you bring it back to the flavors on how we figure this out, you you gotta pay attention to what's actually going on. And the beauty of of consumer marketing is that you can define the stratification of the different layers at which you where where and how you wanna play. Kids, moms, sports enthusiast, gamer, people who can't sleep, people who have anxiety, people who are, like, overly ambitious. Right? I mean, you name it. You can create a a microcosm or a microcategory or micro market or your niche, if you will, to then blow out from a research perspective how these folks behave. How do they think? What are their purchasing, habits? What's their disposable income? So you can automatically figure out if you're gonna be a prestige brand, a mass tige brand, or mass. Right? Right from a price point perspective. So one of the wonderful things that I get to do here at VitaQuest, when customers walk in the door, we basically have two kinds. One that says, hey. Can you make this? And that goes to product development because they already know what they want, which is great. And then we have customers that come in and say, I wanna be in this category, and I want to focus on this niche market or this customer or or or this product format. And then that's when the innovation team comes in and we start to ask a lot of questions. And the first question that we always ask our customers is tell me what it looks like on the shelf. Like, what is a six what is your what is success for you? And it's not revenue. Right? It that that doesn't count. I have to see like, envision your vision for me so I can put the right resources behind making that happen or suggest an alternative path because a lot of times people come in with the idea that I wanna be here, but they can only afford here. Right? So you guys just gotta scale back. But the good news is there's solutions across the whole price point category or price point spectrum, and it's just knowing what you want. And I and I say this all the time. Knowing what knowing what you want is half of getting what you want, and you're only as good as your plan b. Right? And if you have those perspectives, you're gonna win. You're gonna win by your own rules and by your own definitions or your own KPIs. These these are the important aspects of success, especially in differentiating your product. So flavors, it's a whole category of science. Right? It's chemistry. It's physiology. It's behavioral. And if you start to weave all the aspects of these things in, and I'm sure we'll get to this conversation at another point, but this is the power of AI. Yeah. Right? Because there's so much information now. How does my pea sized brain handle all that? Right? You're discounting your brain here, Michael. Alright. Maybe it's a golf ball. Yeah. I was gonna say it's at least yeah. Right? That's good. Okay. But, actually, you know what? You primed me well there. Let's go down the AI rabbit hole in the personal, data and personalization, conversation topic here. Right? Again, this whole conversation around flavor is really a downstream conversation around personalized nutrition and how AI and Nutrigenomics, and customer data and the wealth of sort of a, you know, a big data at large that's pulling from other, bits of health data that consumers are now curating for themselves, how all of that is informing your research and your product development. I'm curious how VitaQuest is leveraging consumer data and clinical research in real time with the support of things like AI to actually, you know, make this a reality where you can stay nimble in your innovations and tailor supplement solutions to what consumers in the market are asking for? What what does it look like under the hood for you guys? Mhmm. Without revealing too much, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I think I think the important thing to remember here is that we we stay in our lane and we we and and we're good at what we do, and we try not to be everything. But I can say with great confidence that part of what VitaQuest does well is that it partners with the best vendors in the industry who supply us with the greatest data and the greatest products that money can buy, literally. My part of a big part of my job is to make sure that my toolbox is full of options when you come in the door that no matter what you ask for, I have a solution. Not only do I have a solution, but through our investments and and through through our vision of the future, we can take some of these raw materials and modify them to be to play better. Better mouthfeel, bet better organoleptic, better compressibility, a lot of things that you don't see in the finished product and, you know, that the customer sees. But, you know, when they take a chewable tablet and they open up the the bottle and they put one in their hand, it's not all chipped up and it's not all broken. It doesn't come out in pieces. Right? Everybody takes that for granted, but sometimes with the right ingredients in the in the in the menu, that's not possible. So we have to have that technology to bind those things correctly without going off the regulatory path because because consumers are are getting savvy now. Right? They want clean ingredients. Right? They want less nonessential stuff in in in their products. So that that that puts a challenge on us as a manufacturer because we have to make millions of these things at a time. So when the presses go down or or the or the the blending happens, it all has to be consistent and uniform and reproducible and meet the highest quality standards. And that's what VitaQuest really prides itself on because what goes on that label is what's in the jar, and it's in the jar two years later. I I gotta tell you, what a lot of people don't understand is that you have to put a lot of extra stuff in if your ingredients don't have good stability. So you might say, and I'm just making this up, a thousand milligrams of vitamin c is on the label, but I had to put twelve hundred in there to start because in order to meet a thousand milligrams at two years, it's that's the degradation curve. Right? You don't advertise that, but that's how you have to that's how you have to play. Right? So there's a lot of behind the scenes innovation that that really goes behind what VitaQuest does because it's it's not it's not trans it's not visible. Right? It's it's in the factory. It's in it's in the building. It doesn't come out in our finished product because let's face it. If you don't know it or, I mean, if you don't see it, that's good for us. Right? Because we did our job right. Now we're not doing anything nefarious. Right? We're not trying to hide anything. I mean, we might wanna mask a flavor, but everything is on the up and up. Right? The label says everything. It's the transparency of the label. So you take this personalized medicine approach. You take genomics or omics in general, proteomics, lipomics, metabolomics, twenty three and me. Right? There's all kinds of you know, we're now there's now services where you can send your body foods to be examined for how well your your nutritional status is almost real time. I mean, people keep diaries of their gym workouts, their their dietary habits, their sleep number you know, the number of hours they sleep, you know, how many days that they said a swear word. I mean, that this holistic health thing is becoming quantitative, and it's been so for a long enough time now where there's a database of information to start it starts to tell a story about how your consumer behaves. So we invest in that process. Right? We let our vendors come in here and tell us this is what our market says. And then when we look at our sales through categories or through formats or or through price points or through whatever market niche that we wanna define the data as, it kinda matches and that validates us in some way or some form. So we know we're on the right track. We're not gonna chase down some claim that's gonna take us down a rabbit hole that's gonna get us in trouble. But the nuance of how you claim and how you differentiate has to be left up to the consumer. Yeah. Not not not some dangling carrot to say, I can fix your problems. Right. Right. Right. So this then gets me to the real innovation that VitaQuest is planting its flag in and leading the charge in, which is around manufacturing integrate innovation, excuse me, right, and and finding new ways to actually help execute on, this, you know, personal medicine, motivator for the idea, turning it into something scalable, like you said, making those small decisions around, well, how much of this do we actually need to put in to counterbalance this that introduces this new issue? We have to counterbalance that. All of those unique qualities are reinforced with proper, equipment investments, facility investments, which we brought up a little earlier. And I know that y'all have had a lot of recent facility upgrades to support some of the knee the needed innovations that are shaping the market. Right? New particle engineering capabilities using fluidized bed technology. That's, you know, one of the things that y'all are flexing as part of your, production process. Dig in for us a little bit more. Right? How have or if you could, lay out some of the recent innovations y'all have made, to support, the manufacturing process of these nutraceuticals and how you've seen these innovations improve things like product consistency, scalability, time to market, and, you know, helping execute on the consumer demand of the era. Yeah. So one thing we're really proud of that happened, last year was, we acquired a building from Pharmachem, which is in, in New Jersey in Paterson, New Jersey, and it's a powder processing, facility. And we, our intentions in in in purchasing this was to was to literally up the game in the industry for us from an internal perspective and from a deliverable perspective for our customers. And one of the things that makes this facility so nice for us is that it allows us to modify our ingredients to fit into niches or need gaps that that were that that present a problem for us. From a technical perspective, we can improve powder flow. Right? Because Vitiquest is primarily a powder company and what we do is we blend and mix and compress and and package up powder. Now on the surface, that might seem pretty simple, but think of what bird seed looks like when you go when you go to the store. Right? There's tiny little pieces of seeds. There's bigger seeds. There's elongated seeds. There's round seeds. There's square c's, etcetera, etcetera. You just can't pour that into a bowl and stir it around your finger and have it come out uniform on a scale of two hundred and fifty thousand units at a time. Right? So we we've invested in some, state of the art blenders. We have different formats of blenders, different shapes of blenders, different kinds of rotational, configurations. And that was VitaQuest before this acquisition. But now with the we can before we put the product into the blenders, we can modify them in a way so that they behave a little more predictably. Right? This allows for better uniformity. This allows for better compression if we're making tablets. This improves powder flow through through our instruments when we're trying to move it around. It allows us to control particle density. And from a consumer benefit perspective, this allows us to then start to venture into areas of bio bioavailability. Like, we we can have things released at different points through the digestive tract, or we can activate or release certain flavor systems when it hits your mouth. We have a technology from that same facility called QFizz, which is an effervescence technology. It's basically an acid based system that changes, the mouth feel completely. Right? So we can use a little bit of it and give a tiny little tingle kind of like a sparkle to to to, the experience or we can actually have this bloom in your mouth if you're looking at, let's say, an oral probiotic that has to spend some time in the oral cavity before you swallow it. Even before it hits your mouth, you you see things like emergency where you pour it into your water and it fizzes up. Right? So it kinda self dissolves if if you if you think about the the kinetics of of what effervescence can do. So that's a technology that was born from this facility, and that's literally changing the game in in the product format category for us. So, I mean, we don't we don't try to put Q Fizz into everything, but hydration drinks, energy drinks, you know, where it makes sense, it people go, wow. Right? So when you come to VitaQuest and and we're pitching you the toolbox, we're not just pitching you the screwdriver, the wrench, and the hammer from our vendors that that we very carefully vet, but we're also pitching you our our ability to modify ingredients in order to change your perception of what you thought. So we have we literally have tasting flights just like you go to a a a winery or or or or a brewery or a whiskey house. We give these little samples on this board just like you would see at at at a cider mill. And this is effervescence with leachate. This is effervescence with strawberry. This is so so and so ingredient with this type of effervescence, and each one of them is a different experience. So having this technology allows us to to really step forward in the industry and and hopefully have people asking for this eventually. Right? I want my pride to look like that, and we made that. So it's easy for us to say, yeah. We we can do that. Or if they have this vision of what they wanted to do, then we go back to our r and d and our product development people and say, hey. Listen. Can we apply what we do here to to to make this a reality? So the processing of ingredients is is really a game changer for us. It lowers our cost in some cases because we're not wasting so much during manufacturing because it flows better. Right? So that helps our margins as a as a company. But at the same time, it also lowers the cost because we don't have to use so much raw material that our customer's gonna require to to produce their their PO. So it controls, you know, technically, we call that yield loss. Right? It lowers customer complaints because we make a more uniform, consistent product. We can prevent caking and clumping. Right? So there's a whole science to powder technology that, that most people don't realize that most people don't realize, but we're experts at it. Right? And and I'm proud to say that we're experts at this from from a to z. Right? So whatever we come up with, whatever solution that we provide our customers, it always checks out, from a performance perspective and from a quality perspective. And, again, we're just scratching the surface of some of the specific, you know, workflows and, manufacturing techniques that y'all are leveraging to, you know, deliver on and realize these innovative, personalized flavor filled products. Right? So I won't even try to dig deeper because we're hitting time today. We're gonna have to do some follow-up conversations. But I wanted to wrap things up with some actionable insights here for our audience and really kind of for your industry. Right? Giving advice to meet the times. If you had to succinctly, summarize some of your advice, and this might be similar advice that you give to clients that walk in the door at VitaQuest and say, I'm looking for this product. I want to do x, and I want to meet y audience with z solution. What kind of questions should those players in the space, the brands that are wanting to launch something new and innovative in the market to meet these trends, what kind of questions should they be asking themselves, about their product vision before bringing it to the table in a way that takes into account some of the realities of manufacturing manufacturing these products, developing them, and scaling them. Right? What are some easy ways folks can get a better sense of, what they're wanting to bring to market before they actually start scheming in the lab and actually coming to you and working with a contract manufacturer? Yeah. Well, you're you're you you you've gotta know what you want. Right? So I I mentioned that earlier. So that's that's half the battle. So you come to the table with this idea, this this product format, this this thing that that you wanna realize, and you have to ask, well, have you done it before? Right? Because you don't wanna take a chance with your brand on on someone who's experimenting for the first time. One of the things you're looking forward to is is good seamless transition, good transparency. We have a customer service department that works very tightly with each of our sales representatives, which then works very tightly with our product development scientists. So the circle is is always open. Right? That there's transparency in the communication process. Meeting deadlines, being transparent about how long things are gonna take is usually an eyebrow razor for first timers. You know, they think they can say I'm making this up, but a lot of people will come in and say, you know, well, listen. I have this this this Amazon search bot that tells me that berberine is is hot right now. And if I don't act in the next ten weeks, I miss my window. And then my response is you've missed your window. Right? But we can get close. Right? And and I think that's important to understand. If people are coming in here with a the mindset of certain ingredients that are difficult to source, I'll give you a great example. Last year, there was a big shortage in anchovy harvesting from from South America, and anchovies are the largest source of omegas. We don't deal a lot with omegas, but the market took a big hit because omegas are widely consumed as as a as a supplement. So you have to understand these things too. So being transparent with our with our customers about the status quo of the, supply chain is big, is really big. Product formats, like, especially around sports medicine and beauty from within and bone and joint health where proteins are are a big part of that category. We we see some really cool innovations around clear proteins, proteins from plants, modified proteins, proteins that don't clump, proteins that need to taste better than they do, so on and so forth, adding amino acids to these things. So I think what happens is a lot of times customers will come in with with what they think they want. And then after we open up a couple drawers of the toolbox and we show them the the the VitaQuest suite of all the support staff that's behind their their brand or that will be behind their brand, they start thinking a little differently. Like, all of a sudden, they're like, well, I was coming in for this model car, but I think I might want that one now. Right? So that's going in the opposite direction of my earlier example when they come in with high, you know, caviar taste, and then they can only afford a McDonald's budget. Right? Okay. It happens both ways. But the important piece is that we we show them the army of people that are behind them and everybody in each of these departments is the best best in class best in class. Right? We have people that have been working here thirty, almost forty years. They've been in the industry a really long time. They're on top of their game. They can tell you right with without any research. Right? What's the state of the union for this particular problem because they're experts. And it feels good to have that type of team behind you when you're in front of a customer because there's never an answer I don't know. The answer is I'm I'll get you that answer if I don't know it, And here's here's the expert. So innovation is more than just coming up with a good idea. Innovation is about making sure that you have the resources behind your potential. Right? You you you gotta have a solid foundation to drive into the unknown if you're gonna do it with confidence. And that confidence gets relayed to our customers, and I think that's part of the success for VitaQuest success is that people see that confidence in the way we do things. And it just feels good. It just feels good. So you're you're absolutely correct. We could probably take a very deep dive into any one of the sentences that we talked about today. But I do appreciate the opportunity to to, to get the ball rolling. Absolutely. And that we are we're definitely gonna need to do some follow ups. You know, we can curate some discussions where we bring on more folks, from your ecosystem of development, maybe brands you've even worked with in the past that we can, learn from and, better understand how they've had to make some of those tough decisions around taking the realities of the development and, turning them into successful market ready products for their audience. But, again, I'm getting a little ahead of myself. We'll go ahead and wrap things up. Michael, thank you so much for your insights today. This has been great. You know, as a primer on nutraceuticals innovation for our audience, I think I couldn't have asked for a better conversation. So, again, folks, we've been chatting it up with Michael Antonovich. He's VP of innovation at VitaQuest. Michael, if folks wanna learn more about your work, about VitaQuest, they wanna get in touch, where can we point them? Vitaquest dot com. Easy enough. Go ahead. Yeah. And and and, you go on the website. You you it's a excellent website. Even if you're just looking and you're not sure, there's a lot of blogs, there's a lot of information. We really make it easy for a a potential customer to, find their way through this industry. So, you can look me up as well. And, as soon as you click that button that you're interested, we'll have a we'll have a representative get in touch with you to find out exactly what you're looking for and make it happen. Love it, man. Alright, Michael. Thank you so much for your time today, and looking forward to future dialogue. Thanks, Thanks, Daniel. Appreciate it. And thank you everyone for tuning in to today's episode of Experts Talk. If you like what you heard and saw today and you want more conversations like the one we had here today with Michael, maybe you're looking forward to those future discussions on nutraceuticals innovation. Make sure that you're heading to our website, market scale dot com, heading to our experts talk show page, and subscribing to the show for updates. And if you yourself think you've got some stories, some trends, some hot takes to unpack here on the show, you know who to hit up. You can hit me up on LinkedIn. Shoot me an email, daniel dot litwin at market scale dot com, and we can field your hot takes. Maybe you'll find yourself here in the Experts Talk hot seat. Alright, folks. Thanks again for joining us on today's episode. I'm your host, Daniel Litwin, the voice of b two b, and we'll catch you on the next episode of Experts Talk.