Field Service Growth Depends on Leading With People, Not Just Technology

This is straight straight straight out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another episode of straight out of Crumpton. I'm Greg Crumpton, your host for the next forty five minutes or so. Man, I'm excited today because I've been thinking about this lady who's joining us for for our recording today, And our our, what we share is a unique, dabbling into the skilled trades world. And she does it from one angle. I do it from the other angle. But, really looking forward to to having a good conversation. So, without further ado, Sarah Nicastro is joining us today. And Sarah has a very interesting title, which I love because it talks about everything that she does, and they're probably prioritized on what she likes to do, if our guessing. And that is a storyteller, a lover of people, a podcast host, and by golly, in HDI named her one of the top twenty five thought leaders of twenty twenty five. I wanna make sure I didn't tongue tie that. So, Sarah, welcome to Straight Out of Crumpton. I'm so glad that we were able to connect and you could join us today. Thank you so much, Greg. I am thrilled to be here and excited for the conversation. Well, this will be a resume topper. There's no doubt people will flock to you after spending time on the Straight Out of Crumpton podcast. Now a gentleman who I consider a friend, I hope he does, Mitch Joel, tells his guest when he has them on the thinking with Mitch Joel con podcast, Sarah, what do you do, and how did you wind up here? Yeah. I love that intro. That'll take us through forty five minutes in and of itself. No problem. What do I do? So, you know, it's interesting you were reading some of the traits that I list in my sort of LinkedIn tagline. Right? There's a very important one missing, which is I'm also a mother. That is a huge part of my life and certainly a job, if you will, that I take very, very seriously. Thank you for doing that by the way. Yes. I would be remiss to not mention that. I should add that into that tagline actually. But so those are some of the things I love. I love the art of storytelling. I am a people person, and I do love podcasts, all of that. I have a couple more official titles. So I am the creator and editor in chief of the future of field service platform. So that is a thought leadership platform for leaders in service based businesses, talks about everything from, you know, tackling challenges and seizing opportunities, talent, leadership, technology, innovation, growing revenue, all sorts of different things. I host the weekly unscripted podcast where I have on business leaders industries, different geographies to talk about all of those things. And I am the principal evangelist at IFS. So IFS is a provider of service management technology along with enterprise asset management and industrial AI solutions. And so I have those are my official titles. But what I love is talking to folks and connecting people, helping give them a place to come and learn from one another, share, you know, what they're experiencing in the trenches, have a bit of camaraderie, but also do some brainstorming and develop some, you know, creative solutions and best practices. So that is a big driver for me in all of those roles. Well, what what you love really speaks to me because I I too like those things. The older I get, the more that I find I do like them. I spent a lot of my years working as a lone worker in a truck on a rooftop or somewhere that where humans did not commingle with me. So I had a lot of thoughts, but I didn't know that I could connect with people that had similar thoughts. And I think more importantly, connect with people who had dissimilar thoughts, and then we found that synapse between those two. Because, you know, having a good, I think, view of how other people see our industry From especially consumer standpoint or, you know, we don't do I'm not a home residential guy, but thinking about the homeowner perspective or the building owner perspective or the data center, you know, customer, I love to look at it, and I've got so many friends that I've built over the years that are on the end user side. And I've always appreciated their insight because maybe I thought I was doing something really cool, and they thought it was really stupid because it wasn't helping them from a user standpoint. So being able to to say, you know, David, what do you think about this? And him saying, that is the stupidest thing you've thought of lately, and being able to embrace that and say thank you so I don't burn your his time or or our time, you know, trying to implement something. And I think sometimes we get tunnel vision Yeah. Of of what works because it works well for us, but it and we're all consumers. You know? We get to every day I I just was at the grocery store at lunch, and I realized a bunch of stuff that I would never want to do or do to my customers that were being done to customers. So I I love that. I love the back and forth Yeah. On the push buckets. You know, so you asked in your first question, and I didn't answer, how did I get here? And so, you know, let me kind of take a long path to a comment I wanted to make by sharing a bit about that which is I was so I live in Erie, Pennsylvania, relatively small city. I was in grad school. I was getting my MBA and I ran into a friend from college who was working for a local publishing company that published a variety of different business to business trade publications. And one of them happened to be focused on the field service space. Long story short, he was like, it's a great company. I, you know, aggressively worked my way in to getting a job there as a writer and then became the editor in chief of that publication and was there for almost twelve years before I I came into IFS to create and run future of field service. But what that made me think of in in the context of what you're sharing is, you know, when I started in in this space, it was two thousand eight and everything was a lot more insular. Right? There I mean, everything was different clearly. But, you know, when leaders within organizations would even think to engage outside of their own business, it was with really the sole objective of, you know, if we're in HVAC, we need to be the best in HVAC. That was the bar. And a lot of the digital advancement that has affected all of our consumer lives, know, you hear all the time the Amazon effect, the Uber all of these things, really forced people to understand the value of looking at all industries and all of those interactions. You know, you can be leading an HVAC organization and go to the grocery store and think, man, like we don't do this exact same thing, but I want to make sure we're not making our customers feel this point of frustration in the context of our interactions with them. And so it's really been exciting because for someone who likes to help people share ideas and thoughts and lessons learned and make those connections, it's given me a lot of opportunity to help people learn from, you know, leaders in different industries, in different spaces. And I always say, no one person that I could have on my podcast or you could have on yours is going to have a blueprint for success for you. But if you can have a curious mind and look for these little nuggets of information and inspiration and ideas from all these different interactions you have, you can take that back and and make tremendous impact. We took a break this year, but over the last three years, we have hosted our own events across the globe. And time and time again, leaders who came and spent the day with myself and all of the others would say, you know, the biggest thing I'm taking away from today is I feel so much less alone. I didn't realize so many other leaders were struggling with these same things. And you know, what a powerful thing to be able to do, you know, to let folks know, you know, you're not in it alone. No one has this all figured out. Right? We can all kind of help each other with that sense of of camaraderie. But, yeah, it's great. Well, I I've so a lot there to to talk about that I love. Peer groups for me are fabulous. And when I was an independent mechanical HVAC contractor, I was part of a peer group called the Unified Group. Still around, still a great organization. Once I was acquired by private equity backed backed ServiceLogic, I couldn't be in that independent group anymore. So I missed it. You know? Like, I I missed that being able to go talk about my problems privately with people in a similar predicament because we, you know, we all have the same problems. We're just in different ZIP codes. So Yeah. There there are user groups locally for most trades, but you I I didn't feel comfortable talking about my dirty laundry with my neighbor. So we're, at ServiceLogic now, recreating that peer environment because so many of our former owners, now presidents, were part of these groups. And, man, I I find the value and and, you know, when you host an event or or participate in an event, there's good stuff that happens in the classroom and in the ballroom and all that, but the real magic comes from a cup of coffee or a beer or something when you can just get with the people and do, you know, proper networking Which is more than glad handing to me. It's learning from each other. Yeah. And we have so much of that going on. And just, you know, with our company and within the industry, I love it. So I I love hearing that that you do that. Incredible. And and I'm I'm a Kaizen practitioner. I've probably got my tattoo right there. Nice. Because I feel like we we all have to keep learning Because nothing is static. Nothing in our businesses are static. Nothing in our lives are static. So you have to be dynamic enough to and and I get mine for breeding. It's where I think I get educated mostly. Reading about team building and how this team was built and failed or how this team was built and succeeded. And I'm a huge proponent of of nugget hunting. So Yeah. If I go to a a two day webinar or or seminar, it's worth the airfare and the hotel if I come back with one good idea that I can share that affects more than me Mission accomplished. Absolutely. You have to be in that mindset of what what can we do? And and to your point, the grocery store. I don't I don't sell milk, but I know how you want our customers to feel after purchasing air filters Versus milk. You still want that that I feel like I got my money's worth, and I felt like I was respected or heard or whatever word you wanna put in. Yeah. So that that's cool. I love I love how you said the the nugget. That that's one of my words. So Yeah. I think, you know, there's a a couple things that play into what we're talking about here. You know? One is, I talk about this on on my podcast a lot, this shift that I see taking place in in leadership. Right? And, you know, there was an era of leadership where not everyone was hungry for knowledge because the name of the game was being the smartest person. Right? So the more you had to seek wisdom for from others, you know, that was a reflection of you being not as strong of a leader as you could be. And I think we're at a point now where people realize that's just foolish, right? You know, the the real strong leaders never stop learning and they don't use their experience as armor. They don't assume that they know best because they have x degree or they've spent this amount of time doing this task or what have you. They are open minded and they look for the opportunities to learn from others. I think the other thing that I was thinking of when you were sharing, you know, what you're doing from a peer to peer perspective at Service Logic is you mentioned at one point being that lone worker, being in the truck every day, kind of being on your own. And coincidentally, I I just had a call this morning with an organization that is is part of one of the communities that I have connect on a a regular interval. And we're co hosting a session together in January about the mental health and well-being of of the frontline. And, you know, from a I know talent is a topic that that you're really passionate about. From the perspective of considering, you know, how do we bring younger talent into these roles, how do we keep them in these roles, companies and leaders have to become more conscious of what is important to individuals today, you know, a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose, not feeling alone or isolated, know, feel figuring out, okay, we have these field workers and maybe they don't come into an office every day or maybe they don't see us in person on a week to week basis, but it is still our responsibility to make them feel part of something. It is still our responsibility to make them feel valued and heard. And so offering those connection points is I think, so important in today's age. And and I would add to to all those points you made about the new generation of worker is providing a road map. Where where am I gonna be? Where am I headed? And Right. You know, when I grew up in in the industry, it was show up, shut up, and keep up. And that's cool for, like, one percent of the population. Yeah. That recipe recipe doesn't work anymore. The other ninety one percent are are not thrilled with that. So Yeah. As a I'm sixty one, so I'm continuously studying generational communications. So You know, right now and and you know this as well as anyone, five five different generations in the workforce. And my message of of safety, my message of safe driving or customer service has to be in five different languages Because I'm appealing, a, to five different generations. Now let's just go one more deeper. You can't stereotype the generation because Every person is a little bit different. And Right. Working on our personal EQ of understanding how to how to communicate with that person That's just as important to me as anything. And Yeah. You know, I spend time with young folks. I've got I've got a a cadre of young guys I'm working with right now and and ladies communicating in various intervals. But one thing I'm always listening for is what it's like anything else. What's bothering you the most, you're gonna say first. So What are those first interactive moments looking and sounding like, and how are we doing, a, as an industry, b, as a company, and maybe c, as a, you know, a a populace in in general of adapting to that because and you you some of your work you do. Where did I read this a while ago? Or yesterday, actually, I read it, about understanding how we can get the tribal knowledge transferred, because I worry about that a lot. You know? I'm I'm the youngest baby boomer by by year. I was born in sixty four. So how do we make sure that for the next seven years is all I I can think about. The age of sixty seven is the work age for or retirement age for my for my peers. How do we help extract all of that brainpower and put it somewhere so that we don't have to keep re scarring our knees learning the same stuff that we've already learned. Yeah. And I think a lot of it is is through better documentation at on the job site as, you know, some of your work does, making the you know, we hear the AI word every day. Using that to harness the ability to extract lessons learned It's going to be a culmination of many things. But there's still freaking humans involved in making sure that we shepherd that all the way through So that it's useful. Yeah. I mean, you know, we've been collecting, building analytics since the late eighties when digital controls came. So there's, like, a fourteen trillion bytes of data that are useless because we don't know what to do with it. Right. We're at a point in time now so that that field software with images and video and model and serial number searches, this can all be a whole lot more robust Than it's ever been before Yeah. Without having to figure out whether that technician wrote two or a z or an s or a five with their handwritten work order We we've got such a an opportunity to make a big difference. So I'm I'm excited about that, but getting that data out of the brains of of people like me that want to give it away Is super important to me Yeah. Yeah. For the future of the industry. Yeah. I think so this is where this topic is one where AI is a bit of a double edged sword. Okay? Because one of the risks is that leaders, you know, at the top of organizations that maybe don't fully understand or respect how much knowledge the frontline worker holds can look at AI as, well, it's not that big of a problem because we'll just use AI. Right? Like, there's this sort of blanket overestimation of how it can just, you know, solve some of these challenges. So that's on the risk side. The the opportunity though is that, you know, it can't solve for that. However, it can be a big part of how organizations make better use of the data that they have and capture, you know, the data from those really tenured employees. So sometimes, you know, I'll talk to service leaders and, you know, they'll say, we need these guys or or women to, you know, how do we get them to just download every single thing they know. Right? And I mean that feels daunting. It feels a bit unrealistic. Right? So I think organizations need to be a bit more creative. I think one of the ways that AI can help is inferring a lot, you know, reading a lot of context and making it so that we're not talking about a process of someone sitting down at a computer and typing everything they know, but rather leveraging AI to, you know, sift through a bunch of different data on work orders and, you know, customer history, etcetera, and start pulling that knowledge together. It's also, I think, you know, you see organizations, some doing this, some not, where those more tenured technicians are great mentors. You know? They are great resources to leverage to, you know, coach up and help bring up that next generation. And and sometimes, you know, you can use technologies like remote assistance where they could work from a home office and support four, five, six, seven technicians virtually to give them that one on one support without having to have the grind of, you know, traveling every day, etcetera. So, you know, I think there the the technologies and the sophistication of technologies that are available today offer tremendous opportunity. They are still just tools. Right? And so we have to make sure that we honor and respect the knowledge that exists and also the role that in my opinion humans will continue to play. You know, there's a lot of things that you can automate. There's plenty of reporting that most field technicians would be happy not to have to do, but the perspective that they have on what customers need and want and the relationships and trust that they have, you know, that can't be replaced. Well said. It it it is a tool. It's not the thing. It's the thing it's a tool to help the thing. Yeah. And I I think about the remote service assistant, you know, a lot. I think about true apprenticeship opportunities a lot. They all come down to financial decisions that companies have to make. Do you do you make, you know, a half a point less EBITDA, but you're future proofing your company, or do you continue to live with a ratio of five retirees to two incoming workers, and you just keep winding that rubber band tighter and tighter and tighter until it snaps? Obviously, one's sustainable, one's not. But with the the financial implication, the the I I feel like there are movements, plural, being made where people are providing in their budgets more time for for non billable time for coaching. The ability to extract data. I've thought about how to do that. And, you know, I I'm a big fan of gamification. You know, maybe it's something as simple as we we use a tool called Ving. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Ving, but It's a great little tool to help you get information out and get information back real quickly. So maybe you could do a daily question of the day for the tech. And you get that data back, and that goes into the blender of all the AI input. So you're you're giving real life scenarios. What would the likely answer be to question a on this heating call? It's gonna take all of it, I think. One one one nugget, as we've said earlier, is not the answer. One person doesn't have the answer. But if we can take a little bit of this and a little bit of that and a lot of the data we have and smarten it up We can get down to we may not have the answer, but we have two or three likely scenarios. And then that's where the remote assistant can come in. But we have to, you know, do it safely. And, you know, I think about training a lot. So we're half union, half nonunion. And how are we teaching our first year premises and our helpers to work safely? And I love interplay learning for that. Doug Donovan does a great job because we can get people shocked and it not hurt them while they're learning electrical troubleshooting before they go in the real world. You can't replace hands on, but you can go hands on a lot more knowledgeable than you could in the old days. So Utilizing that kind of tool and and, you know, it it's all coming. But, you know, I'm an impatient dude. I I like stuff to happen quickly. I keep waiting for myself to mature out of that, and I haven't yet. So Yeah. Maybe that doesn't happen. I would argue from a technology perspective, you know, it's not coming. It exists. It's just that it's also you know, not only is it a tool, it's it's it's a tool. It's not a magic wand. You know? So there's there are real implications not only from a a finance perspective, what can you afford to invest in, what what's in the budget for this year or next year, but managing change. Right? And making sure that things are being put in place in a way that, you know, makes sense and will actually solve the problem. Right? So it's the capabilities exist, but it it isn't effortless. Right? Like it still requires work and planning and strategy to make use of it all. And I think a lot of businesses, know, service centric businesses in in a variety of industries are still really trying to catch up to where the technology was five years ago. You know, they're they're kind of overwhelmed with what's possible, and that makes it really hard to figure out, okay, well, you know, what do we need to do now? What do we need to do next? So that's a challenge in and of itself. Such a great point. And for my industry, it's very difficult for operators to look much over their horizon Because they're understaffed and they're overworked now just trying to keep up with what's happening in their face. There really has to be a concerted effort of a leadership position or even a third party consultant partner that helps Bob and and Larry's air conditioning company see twenty twenty eight. Because Bob and Larry are so shorthanded, they're maybe catching the service call on the way home Let alone figuring out how to train the next generation. Yeah. So I'm and a lot of things are moving, grassroots efforts, the government's efforts, trade school efforts, grants, micro type people. There's a bunch of things moving, what you're doing, what I'm doing, what others are doing. We've gotta figure out how to coalesce that energy. And and instead of having a thousand baby trees in the forest, let's just Let's concentrate on ten stakes in the ground And and get some of these efforts and get some of the funding funneled together to make an impact in a bigger way. Because so much of it's local and, you know, our industry think about how many contractors there are in the HVAC arena, and there's so many of those guys and ladies that are now ready to retire. They get to this decision point. Let's just say that that a couple owned a business, and they ran the business for twenty years. They've made a great living. They built a good name for themselves. Now they're sitting there at the dinner table going, do we wanna keep going for five more years and try to figure this out, or do we sell the company now to a larger company or or or private equity or whatever and not have to cross that chasm of what do we do next. So I think we're gonna see a whole lot of m and a activity Yeah. In the next seven years as my peers retire. It's already busy. We bought twenty companies in twenty twenty five. And a lot of them were smaller companies that were ready to hand the baton off, and maybe they didn't have anybody in the family. But so many great companies that are on that on that kinda, like, looking over the Niagara Falls edge, you know, how close you can get to falling over that thing. They're looking at this, like, do do we double down and go another five and invest, or is this the time? So a lot of m and a work requires integration into existing processes, but now we got thirty more people to in integrate into our next phase of how do we get our technical skills documented, utilized, shared, whatever whatever adjective you wanna throw in there. Yeah. Or that'd be an adverb. Sorry. So a lot going on. But thank goodness that I really and maybe I live with rose colored glasses on, but I feel like people are beginning to wake up to this in a bigger way than they were two years ago. When you read articles in the paper that we're not building data centers fast enough, and if you look at the root cause, it's because there's not people to go build them. Yeah. You know? And you see trades like, you've got an electrical contractor, and he's using up most of the manpower in that area building a new data center. Well, there's a lot of inner what would be competition within the data center builders. They're kind of having to stagger their builds around each other because of the labor pool. Because there's only you you know, you go build a data center in in Iowa in the middle of nowhere, and you got three hundred electricians. Well, you can't just start another one down the road with that same number of electricians. You've you've gotta progressively enter your work so that when they're done there, they can move. And and that's a dynamic that I've never seen before until now. Yeah. And it's and it's got this big old ugly head rearing everywhere. Home services. You know, you used to you could get a plumber in an hour. You you can't do that. And I think people are beginning to wake up to it is my point. You know, it's interesting you say that. I was I attended a virtual Harvard Business Review future of work event a few weeks ago, maybe a month or so ago. And one of the speakers was the CEO of Walmart, and he was talking about a number of different things, a lot around AI, but as part of that, which to me, this was the most interesting piece of of what he shared, although there was, you know, a lot of good nuggets in in that session. But he was saying that as an organization, they are looking at as they automate more, how do they upskill, reskill, you know, employees. Right? And, you know, he was saying, you know, some employees already sort of know a path that they would like to go into. So can we get them the appropriate education? Can we support them with this sort of training or whatever? But one path that they found actually that he specifically referenced is that they need people internally to install systems, repair systems. So they've created now their own field service workforce. Yep. But he said what's interesting is because that talent is so hard to come by, they are already looking at how that could be a potential revenue opportunity. So basically, Walmart is looking at, okay, you know, we've automated some functions that we don't need these humans for anymore, but we've realized we need our own field force to do all of these things in our stores and facilities. And in addition to that, you know, industries all around us are struggling to get these types of employees. So now potentially, we have a new revenue stream by, you know, having these folks perform service in other spaces as well. So it's interesting how, you know, a behemoth retail brand comes back around to, wow, there's a lot of potential here in field service, and there's a big need for this type of worker. So I agree. I mean, there's light bulbs kind of going off. I saw I didn't participate in that, but I read the highlights from it. And other industries are are seeing that as well. And but if you think about the Walmart, let's just say they decide to make that a a profit center. They're gonna be a facility services company. Most Walmarts are relatively near a Home Depot or a Lowe's or a Ross or something. And and for routing sake and drive time, and they do it, I would think that they could expand into other retailers. And, you know, with without disparaging anybody, a lot of service technicians don't care to work on the big box type work anyway. They'd much rather work on more specialized stuff. So who knows? Maybe that's one piece that helps the commercial industrial segment by taking that light retail and reducing that workload. I I don't know. It's an interesting thing to think about, but we're we're going to see stuff happen in the next five and ten years that we didn't think would ever happen For sure. And that's things like that are just gonna pop organically out of necessity. You know? And and Walmart, I think they're pretty loyal to their associates. I've never worked there, but it when I go into a Walmart, I see a lot of recognition of how many years people have been there. I have a nephew who drives a a delivery truck, you know, over the road for them, and they make a big deal about retention and anniversaries. So I don't know. That could be cool. That could be cool. He spoke about how much time he spends visiting different locations, which it was significant. And, you know, there's just, again, this need for leaders to to be present, you know, to really spend time understanding at the front lines what are the challenges, what are the opportunities, you know, you can't do that from an office at HQ, you know, if you're not out there building those relationships and listening and earning trust, you're not gonna have that sort of tenure and retention. That's just Got it. You know? I so much feel you on that. If I'm in our corporate office, I'm not helping a darn soul. There's nobody in that office other than me hugging and loving on that I'm giving any value to that Career wise. Yeah. Being out and and looking and watching and listening and participating in and Sweeping or whatever, that's where you learn all this stuff of what matters. Yeah. And it's it's I don't know. It's almost come full site full circle. Like Where you started, which for me was behind the broom. I tend to learn more behind the broom again Than I did all the other three hundred and sixty four degrees around the Yeah. Around the Because the higher you advance and the further you get away from that, you know, the the further you are from the genuine sentiment, the the real struggles. You know? You start to kind of generalize all of these things and, you know, it gets watered down and and and it's just, you know, it's twofold. You no longer understand what that world is really like. And as you move away from it, you lose respect from the people that, you know, ultimately you want to retain in those roles because they just think, you know, they don't get it. They don't know what what this world is is really like anymore. Well, both sides of the windshield feel that way. The guy behind the windshield driving to the Walmart to make the repair doesn't think his CEO gets it. Yeah. And the CEO may not think the guy behind the wheel gets it. There's gotta be that intermediary liaison, for lack of a better term, to give the corporate message of we really do care about you, and then talking with the young, fresh people of especially young guys and young ladies. This is why this is important to the overall operation. Yeah. It's it comes back to communication. Yeah. Ab Right? You know, it's everyone is going to feel like the other person doesn't get it if there isn't a strong line of communication and trust and honesty, you know, and action. Right? Hey, I know you feel this way. I hear you. We can fix this. We can't fix this and here's why. Right? You know, I mean, it's just I say this a lot on the podcast that the things that come up again and again and again as the biggest pain points, the solutions are really simple. Like simple sometimes to the extent that I'm like, I don't even understand how I still have a job talking about like leadership and communication. Right? But it's simple conceptually. Right? Simple doesn't mean it's easy to execute. It doesn't mean that it is, you know, possible to always have it be the biggest priority. Right? There are all of these other factors that cloud that simplicity and keep people from doing the things that work. So it's really interesting. Yeah. I love the communications aspect, especially my favorite quote, and I had to look it up today from George Bernard Shaw. The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. And so I don't think you'll ever be out of a job talking about communication because we as humans and and this is what I I've learned and read and studied. We always think we are the awesomest, most big bad communicator on the planet. How could you not possibly understand what I just told you? And I get in my truck or my car or on the phone or whatever thinking, I I laid that out perfectly. And twenty nine people are standing going, what the heck did he just say? But I think it's awesome. And it it was awesome for me, but I already knew everything in my head that I was trying to tell people. So, yeah, you won't ever be out of work, and I love the art of communication. We had a a great lady, Cindy Skilecki, came in and did one of our safety seminars back in October on communication because we have fifty five or sixty safety professionals working one at each company. I wanna make sure that they know how they're communicating with their five generations of workers. And somebody asked me, what's that got to do with safety? And I'm like, everything. Right. Because if the message didn't get relayed properly, somebody could get hurt or or worse. And so it's You know, copying saying that just made me think. So it's also really interesting to me how many parallels there are, you know, in work life and just regular life and especially parenthood. Right? But what was running through my mind as you were saying that was picture yourself being a parent and your toddler walks up to a outlet and goes to put their finger in and you say, don't put your finger in that. And you turn and walk away because you think you were clear while they say, why? Right. And you're not there to answer because you've moved on to the next thing, so they just go ahead and stick their finger in the outlet. Right? You know, it's it's just also interesting because I think what leaders fail to remember sometimes is that communication is two way. So it isn't did I say what I said clearly, period. Right? It's did I did I say what I meant clearly and, you know, did I ask questions that I listen in return? Otherwise, you're not doing the full job. Right? You're reciting. Yeah. You're talking to, you're not talking with. Right. And there's a huge difference when you think about all of the things we're talking about that matter. People feeling engaged, people wanting to stay in a place, being able to extract all of that wisdom from individuals. You don't get that if you're just delivering messages all the time. You know, if you're not asking questions, you're missing a ton of valuable insight from the people that are closest to the customers that you serve. And it's wild to me, you know, how often people overlook this, you know, treasure of information and perspective and and knowledge. Well, I think it goes back to the and I I hate this word. I hear it all the time, and I'm I'm I'm not thrilled with it, but disrespect or lack of respect for what that position is. And You know, you talked about the the leadership versus the guy behind the windshield or the girl behind the windshield. There's gotta be that grounding rod of of connectivity somehow. Yeah. And it comes from humility on both sides of the coin. In my Well, that and yes. But I think, you know, I would say the onus is on the leader. You know? I mean No. That's that's my point. To be. Right? And so I was just actually working yesterday on pulling together our top ten podcasts of twenty twenty five. And from each one, I was sharing what my favorite quote was. And there's a gentleman well, I actually I don't wanna say now because I'm fearing that I'm wrong about which one it was from. But nonetheless Somebody. One of them, you know, was saying that for every manager that comes into the business, whether they're in HR or finance or any segment, they have to do a ride along with a field technician because the point is, like, that is what our business is. And if leaders across functions do not understand what that job entails, how could they possibly make informed decisions? Possibly make informed decisions? They can't. But that's a that's a a culture difference. Right? Absolutely. To work in that frontline position in a company that respects that role enough to make it a necessity that every manager coming into the company spends a day with one of those individuals to learn from them versus working at a company where, you know, a leader hasn't asked you a question, let alone spend a day with you in ten years. You know? I mean, that makes a world of difference. That's why the leaders of Chick fil A's have to work in the store. They don't get to own the Chick fil A and sit on the boat. They have to shuffle the waffle fries in the container. They have to mop all that stuff. And it it I I love that. My my company, when I held it, was we we call it a day in the life. And everybody had to participate, the technicians coming into the office and doing a day in the life of the admin role Of you know, Bobby couldn't tend to get his credit card receipts turned in. So Bobby had to come file everybody's credit card receipts and then find out why they didn't have them turned in. So when you can share the challenges, yeah, it's cool to go up on the rooftop unit and see the beautiful sky or the woods or whatever you happen to be looking at. But when you got your hands in an electrical panel checking voltage and the dang phone keeps ringing off the hook and it's your dispatcher, it would be nice if we could establish a rhythm. Like, hey. Let's while I'm out here on this, let's check-in every fifteen or thirty minutes. You know, I get that we're busy and you wanna know where I'm at in the in the process, but I can't concentrate on keeping myself alive, the customer happy, and answering your freaking phone call every thirty seconds. So just having that back and forth is so beneficial. So Yeah. Well, Sarah, I swear we could talk. I told you four hours earlier before we hit the court, so I really believe we could go and do that. But I know that we have to be respectful because you are a mom, and you have to go get fingers out of the electrical socket, apparently. They're past that point, thankfully. Yes. But I I really I I really appreciate you taking time and and coming on and talking with us about what you do. When and and how do people find out more about what you're doing? You're you mentioned the podcast. You've got so much going on. How can people stay connected with you and learn more? Yeah. So the best way to connect with the content is through future of field service dot com. We publish an article every Monday and a podcast every Wednesday. So the podcasts do reside on the site. You can also find the podcast. It's unscripted by future of field service on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, etcetera. And, you know, anyone that would like to can also look me up personally on LinkedIn. Would be glad to connect. And that is Sarah with an h for those youth keeping score. Yes. Well, I appreciate it. I I'm excited by, you know, just what I've learned since we connected. I I know I need to be listening and reading and following you more to learn more, so I'm looking forward to that. But really do appreciate taking time. I hope you have a great we're not supposed to date our podcast, but I I fail with that. So I hope you have a great Christmas season. Thank you. I don't have I don't have a producer who's gonna get get mad at me for saying that, but love what you're doing. Wanna wanna follow. Guys, ladies, if you're listening, go check her out because she is young, energetic, and smart, and on a tear. So I'm excited for her, excited for the industries, plural. So, without further ado, check us out at greg crumpton dot com. There's tab on there for checking out the podcast. And I would be remiss if I didn't tell you that the new book is out. It came out December first of twenty five. It's on Amazon, on Barnes and Noble. So check it out. Deeper knowledge is this one. Deep knowledge was the first. Deeper knowledge is the second. It it that is intriguing. You can check out deep knowledge dot m e, deep knowledge dot me, for a little bit about the book. So thank you for taking time with us. As always, be safe. Go hug somebody for the holidays, and we will see you next time on straight out of Crumpton.