The Evolution of HVAC: A Tactical Approach

This is it is straight straight straight out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of straight out of Crumpton. I'm Gabby Bar, and I am joined by Mr. Greg Crumpton. Greg, how are you doing today? It's a it's a good day. It's hotter than blue blaze is here. Probably like it is in a lot of places. I think our guest is in Texas, and I just spoke to a guy in Texas and, he he was hot. So I'm I'm sure that our guest is in the in the smoking hot area, but really looking forward to today. In my prep for this, I was just I was I was struck a couple of things. I'm excited to get to talk about, with with our with our man. So kick us off. Let's get going. Yeah. Well, I am excited to introduce today's guest. We are introducing Ben Hole. He is the founder of h back tactical. Ben, how are you doing today? I am unstoppable. How are you? I am doing well. Thank you. So, Ben, thank you. For joining us. I I was wearing my my HVAC tactical shirt in the grocery store, Sunday. And two people asked me what that was. And I said, hey, it's just unstoppable, awesome reception. Before I get too deep down my my b s hole, why don't you tell us a little bit about you, h BAC tactical, what you're all about, and why you're doing when you're doing. I think it's a great story. Well, me, I mean, I started in the HVAC business as a kid. I'm third generation in this industry. It just feels like forever and a day, I've been doing this. But about five years ago, I had this idea that it would be cool to have just cool shirts and hats that you could wear around that represented what we did so passionately for a living. You know, I'm I'm very passionate about my industry, and I get to I would I've been told that on a regular basis, you know, just talking about it. People are like, man, you just you're just, like, genuinely excited about this stuff. And it's, know, there's very I'm good at a lot of things in life, and there's only, like, two things in life that I'm really great at, and one of them was HVAC. And so For me, I just thought this was just a natural fit to bring something to the industry that was kinda cool, a little outside of the box, a little bit different. Just bring it to the industry that I just care for value so much. And the industry's been the industry's taken a lot for me for sure. Taking a lot out of me for sure. As it does for most people in the industry, but it's also given me a lot. And, you know, it's provided a pretty decent living. It's provided for my family. So Yeah. Just decided to start this thing. We called it HVAC tactical and and why the tactical is because being tactical is a mindset. You can be tactical in anything that you do, whether that's driving a car, making a cake, you know, planning a planning a job. Like, it doesn't matter. It's it's truly as a mindset, and it's not just, you know, guns or SWAT teams and stuff like that, but military uses, you know, the tactical mindset all the time, which is why their their missions are typically successful because they plan everything out from a to z They know how to execute. They have contingency plans and, you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah. And, our our lives in HVAC should really be no different. You know, and you should look at a job. You should put your plan together. You should have a contingency plan of what happens if something goes sideways. And, you move forward from there. So That's HVAC tactical in a nutshell. And that whole clothing apparel brand very quickly turned into a movement and that movement turned into an award show, and that award show is just turned into now a magazine, you know, we have some other things in the mix that are coming down the pipeline, but can't get too far in the weeds on that yet. So Well, I appreciate that. I'd I'd I love the tactical mindset because I am a planner you can see my book right here. Scott, all these wacky how how twos and Win twos in it. I just love it. And When I got your magazine, I bought it. I don't know a month ago, probably, and The whole way the thing was even delivered and purchased was exceptionally well done. Including The follow-up, thank you, no, for buying the thing. It just it was just well executed all the way across the board. And When I read this magazine, it reminded me of the first time that I read Fast company magazine way back in the day. And when I read Fast Company, I I remember this day where I was and and what I was doing. It has now become pretty much, not a cool magazine, but then I remember reading it. It was like, my god, I'm not on this journey alone. There are other people who act and think and and try to execute, like I do. I got that same buzz when I read your magazine. In in that buzz for me comes through precision. It comes through, in a tactical way as you described it well planned, well articulated I'm sure you had a plan b through z, you know, when you were developing the magazine, But just really well done. So I'll pause you for getting it out there to the mouse. I really appreciate that. That means a lot for sure. Labor of love, for sure. You know, obviously, starting the brand in general was kinda like taking a step in faith, really. Right? Like, hey. Are people gonna want this? Are people gonna accept it? Are people gonna make fun of it? Or are people gonna think that it's stupid? Like, you know, And one level, I don't care what people think. And on another level, I'm like, hey, I want my community to care about what I'm trying to do for the community, you know, And, and the brand was just rapidly accepted, strangely accepted. I mean, it's, like, it just doesn't make sense when you really stop and go back and think about it. But I think the secret ingredient was that we were doing something that nobody else was doing. We've we've created and cultivated something that nobody else was has done. And, you know, people are are giving me, like, these kudos of, like, you know, you started this thing and you did that. And I'm, like, hold on a second. I didn't start this thing. When I got onto social media, there was already other guys out here doing something similar to what I'm doing. I just found a way to bring us all together removed together and create momentum. Right? And now this momentum, this train is in motion, and we're just scooping people up as we're moving. Right? And so, I played a significant role, but there's a lot of other people that have played significant roles in this movement as well. So I can't take the credit for it no matter how many people think I did something or didn't do something. So, but as far as the magazine goes, you know, it was same thing. Are people gonna accept this? Are people gonna like this? You know, or is it gonna be good enough? You know? And the whole the whole idea was, like, let's come up with a sports illustrated for HVAC. Right? Minus the bikinis, because people don't wanna see service guys in bikinis, you know? That would be ugly. And so, So, yeah. So, obviously, we're working on the next addition now or the next issue, but, you know, we have to we have to try to see how we can level up, you know, try to make it better. And try to keep up with the commercial realm, and we're not we're not trying to replace any publications in HVAC. We're just trying to do something that's never been done. We're creating a social magazine that is for the men and women in the trenches by the men and women in the trenches, right, giving them a voice. And, I think the movement itself has really established a voice for the men and women in the trenches where now companies, these corporations where They're putting all their money in print advertising and media and all this other stuff. Now they quickly realize how much power these men and women in the trenches actually have, especially when they have big followings on social media. Right? And so the dynamic is is changing. And he's, you know, as a contractor, my reviews are based on Google or Yelp or Wayne's list or whatever. Right? And they're based on these customers that I have floating around town. Well, us on social media, we are the reviews now for these big corporations. Right? And now they're starting to realize, like, hey, dude, One of these guys is if he's powerful enough and he teams up with three or four or five of his buddies who are powerful enough, like, they can really cause us some damage if they decide to stop buying product from us. You know? And so I think that the writing has been on the wall. Some companies now are starting to wake up and say, hey, we really need to develop a better relationship with these men and women in the trenches. Right? This this this era of being cut off by this middle man and not having like, just not having such a disconnect with everybody. That is changing now. And so now you're seeing all these people in the trenches are who are now being connected to these manufacturers and working with them and being influencers for them and brand ambassadors Yeah. We've just, you know, we've really outbreak down some barriers, man, and, really shine a light on the men and women in the trade and how important we really are. Not just to the trade itself, but to to blue collar trades in general, you know, here. So Well, it it's All of that's well said. I I I think that the part that really pops out for me is, So I I'm I'm older than you. And I have a lot of peers who don't understand social media. Sure. They don't understand the value of it. I hope I'm I'm different in that way. My a hundred percent different But I I was talking to a guy recently about his company, and he's he's got a a a touch into our industry And I said, what do you what do you think about all these young folks that are making their name on Instagram? And, he said, HVAC people are on Instagram? I said, no. Your audience, your your customer is on Instagram. Yep. He said, I never would have thought that given that what we do. And he's in the like I said, he he's in the mechanical realm. And he calls me, like, a week later, said, oh, my god. I'm like, yeah. That's that's your people right there. You know, and and I don't know why our industry seems to be full of people who are slow as hell to to get their knuckles up off the ground. Let's go. It is. Just wait. Maybe. Alright. So I wanna flip back over to what you also said, as a contractor. And as I knew as I think I knew right now, you sold your business. Is that right? You are not contracting now or you still are contract So I had a I started a company. I started my second company in Austin, Texas in twenty thirteen with my dad. And I ran that company for about nine years. And, and January of this year, the end of January was my last day with that company. So, la end of last year, my dad and I decided to go our separate ways. And, I just decided to go do my own thing. So my dad kept the company. I left. And, yeah, I'm just out here doing my thing. I'm I'm trying to stay full time tactical as much as I can. But I still get a ton of phone calls from people asking me to come take care of stuff and And quite honestly, a lot of it is, like, hey, I've had three guys out here. They can't figure it out, and then they ask me to come out, and then we figure out what's going on. And we go, here, here's the problem. You know what? And the question is always, you know, well, how come these other guys couldn't figure it out? It's hard for me to speak for anybody else. All I can say is that There's a huge lack of education. There's two big problems in our industry, lack of education and ego. And there's definitely no lack of ego in our industry. You know, there's there's two places in the world that are fully ego. Right? It's, it's a hospital in the morgue. And so my my whole thing is is, like, HVAC guys need to stop pulling into park in lots of gas stations and looking at other people at other HVAC guys and going, oh, that freaking guy over there blah, blah, blah, like, You really need to change the lens of which you see things, and you need to realize that these people are your peers. These people have something to offer you, right, whether you think so or not. You know, believe it or not, a guy who's been in the trade for twenty years can learn from a guy who's been in the trade for two years because the guy who's been in the trade for twenty years is so set in his ways, you know? And, we really need to start cultivating a better camaraderie in our industry and social media, a Instagram specific has done that. This movement has done that. It's hard to compare compare Instagram to Facebook because Facebook is very toxic. Right? You can ask somebody a a genuine question because you just want to know or you need an answer and somebody's like, you don't know that you shouldn't even be in the trade. Your fact, your mother should have never birthed you and I mean, it's just it's so wild, you know? Whereas, Instagram is not like that at all. You know? In fact, a lot of guys will not leave negative things in the comments. They'll go back and DM you and say, hey, I'm wondering why you did it that way. Like, that's really not the right way to do it, and this is why. Right? And so the lack of education is just huge in our industry, and I think that we need to do a better job of lifting each other up and pushing each other to be better because let's face it. It's not hard to be a mediocre HVAC guy. Right? It's a lot harder to be a great HVAC to be a guy who's educating a guy who trains, a guy who takes control of his of his career and his future, a guy that that's profitable. Right? If you if you don't wanna be any of those things, well, just be a regular HVAC guy because they seem to kill it at that. You know what I mean? So I I feel you I do because, I'm an industry guy. You know, I'll work for a company. I got it on my Sherry or service. I did go up the company. But I'm an industry guy as well. There's a lot of good people in our industry that I don't work with. Would I like to work with them? Absolutely, but I don't. Because of whatever reason. But we can still help each other. We can still grow help grow each other. Grow the industry, make people aware of how awesome the awesome people are. And and they're they're to your point, there's there's plenty of bad apples on the bunch. Yep. But the good apples are really shining bright and spreading to to your point. They're spreading that same message. You're you don't have to be a a hole to people to get your point across. Now pick up when calling, like you said, or DME, ask me, A question. Because rarely do you know the full story behind what the guy or girl are saying they did and why they did it? Yeah. You know, so I I'd I'd I'd get it. I'll I'll love the the positive impact. And and your magazine, you know, go to go back to it. Is full of that? Is full of positive energy, that that You know, even they've talked about the vacuum, you know, about the evacuation process. I just love that article because so many people don't get that piece of it fully. And that's a really good how to guide to do it well. Yeah, you get by doing it your way, but if you wanna go to the next level, then here is a way to do that. So continue with learning aspect of it. For sure. And it's all learning, you know, being better today than you were yesterday, that's ultimately what it's all about. Right? And fortunate for us as we've developed, I'm a relationship guy. The world revolves around relationships. Right? Like, money comes and goes, but you're not gonna make money without having relationships. Like, if you're not good at building relationships, you're probably gonna be broke. It's a pretty fair statement. And so we've we've done a really good job of building relationships with people like Field Peace and Navac at these in these OEMs. Right? To where we can go to them and say, hey. Do you have any content for a great article on pulling vacuums? Right? Hey. Do you wanna write an article on, you know, probes versus old school compound gauges. Right? And, they're like, yeah, we'd love to do that. Right? And it's a win win. They're getting something of their of their company of value into the book, right, into the magazine, and, and we're getting content out of it. So it's a win win, but that stuff doesn't happen without relationships. And you trying to learn from other people or let other people learn from you, again, doesn't happen without building relationships. People aren't gonna listen to you or take you serious so they don't respect you. And in order to get respect, you have to have a relationship with somebody. You know? It's just it's so overlooked today in our industry that, you have to be likable, man. The old school way of just not sharing your knowledge and being a douche bag all the time. Like, nobody wants that anymore. Right? And if that's you, just get out of the industry, man. We're already in a shortage, but you know what? We'll figure it we'll figure out a way to keep on trucking. So I I think I said that last week on this podcast that is as bad as it is where we are short of quality people. I'm okay with those people that don't get it retiring because -- Yeah. -- the quicker he retire, the quicker that attitude stays away because there's so many good people here You know, just I mean, the freaking people we've had on this show, Ben, I don't know, close to a hundred episodes. Now And the quality of people and and I would say, you know, eighty percent of them have been affiliated with skill trades in some variety. Just good people who wanna do well, who wanna share, who wanna help develop goodness, not walk around beating each other over the head with a club, you know. I mean, I just I have no use for that or no time for that. So You, you you touched on, pretty heavily the relationship aspect of of being in business being in the business and just, in in general. Our whole deal here is talking about relationships, how people get to they are, how they grow from where they are, what they wanna do. Who have who have been and, you know, I had to name names of it. I mean, you wanna talk about it. That's fine. But who are some of the people that have been in instrumental in developing you, good and bad to where you're at a place right now where you've kinda know what you wanna do. You know, how how how those relationships help help, form you and help form your mindset Man, there's really too many people to to mention. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who is I'm a hundred and ten percent or I'm not You know what I mean? Like, you wanna go play a game of basketball in the backyard. Like, I'm playing to win. I'm not playing just to mess around. You know what I mean? Like and so for me, I'm just I'm a very competitive individual. So if I do something, I want to win. And so it's kinda, like, I was in my early twenties and I thought to myself, you know, if I'm gonna do HVAC as a career, like, I should probably go back and educate myself. I should probably go back and learn a few things. Right? And while I got a pretty good fundamental kind of basis from my dad and my grandfather, my grandfather was a or tin vendor. And, you know, my dad was pretty good service tech. Well, I got a good kind of foundation from them. When I went back, it started educating myself. I quickly realized how much I didn't know and how much that the industry had changed from their era to where we were then. Right? And so The more I learned, the more I'm just like, wow, dude. I don't know nothing, man. And so I just kept learning. I kept learning. I kept learning. And then I would always try to deal with things that were, like, on the fringe, right, where people are, like, oh, that'll never work, or, you know, we don't do that around here. We've been known this for thirty years, you know, and this and that. And I'm, like, The fact that you have to throw out the experience card is the problem. Right? Right. So just because you've been doing something for thirty years, doesn't mean you've been doing it right for thirty years. Right? And in most cases, you did it one way for a year and you just repeated it thirty times. So you really have one year of experience. Right? And, obviously, that's loosely thrown around, but I think you get the drift of what I'm saying. And So a lot of the old timers, that's the problem. Look at that. Same thing, so I get it. Yeah. And this this business, will this business will beat you up. Right? And I think what we're seeing with a lot of these old timers still in the business is that This industry has whipped their ass so bad that that's why they're so sour about everything in life. You know, the biz they what their decisions in the business has taken everything from them. They've never made any money. They've made just enough money to get by. They never really ran a profitable company. They never grew their company. They're still really, you know, the two, three, four guys in one company. I mean, that's what makes up most of the companies in America, right, these mom and pop shops. There's nothing wrong with that if that's where you wanna be. And I think And in my younger years, I just made a decision of who it is I wanna be in this industry and and where I wanna be. Right? And this industry is, like, you find a specialty. It's very similar to being a doctor, and you can decide what it is you wanna do and you can hone in on that. Right? You can do grow houses. You can do commercial, industrial, residential, like commercial heavy commercial. I mean, the list goes on and on. And you find that specialty that you wanna be in, and you just become great at that. Right? And then maybe you move on to something else. Maybe you don't. I don't know. You know? For me, I found my specialty is more higher and residential. Right? Really transforming people's comfort in indoor air quality inside homes. I've become very, very proficient at that, and I enjoy doing that. I can get in, I get the job done, and I get paid. I'm not waiting thirty, sixty, ninety days to get my money. You know, which is on the commercial side can be a royal pain in the butt. Sometimes you never get paid at all. So, in my younger years, I just I decided who it is I wanted to be, and I just ran with it. Constantly learning something new, asking a ton of questions, building relationship from guys, finding guys in the industry that knew more than me, and those are the guys I wanna hang out with. You know what I mean? And then doing my part in passing that knowledge along to the next guy coming in behind me. Right? There's no such thing as a stupid question. Right? You're gonna make mistakes. That is guaranteed. Right? You're going to let the magic smoke out of the wires. It's going to happen. But Try not to do it again. Right? Try to learn from that mistake and don't repeat it. So that that was a mouthful. And I share a lot of your sentiment there, especially in the giving back role. You know, I think that once you become super duper proficient. It is our duty to turn around and grab a youngster and bring them around with you. And we would be in such much better condition as an industry if everyone that's working today grab somebody by the arm and gave them a big hug and say, come with me and let's go. Because there's so much knowledge, you know, we're you you hear the numbers. We're retiring, what is it? A hundred thousand baby boomers every day. So what per what percentage of us are skilled trades? There are a lot. There's a lot of people retiring every day And we're not bringing in near enough people to supplement that and our knowledge is weaving. So I I just You know, I hear so many people squawking about there's not enough people. I can't find good people at will do something, you know, other than sit around and walk about it. Start a recruiting effort at your company and set up a scholarship. I mean, do something to attract people and make them aware of what we're doing, not just squawk like a crow on the line. Well, that's an interesting term to use recruit because I I personally believe that we need to stop recruiting people into our industry and we need to start attracting people into the industry. And, and how do you do that? Right? You do it by making HVAC sexy again. You do it by making blue collar, and blue collar has definitely made a comeback for sure. You know, it's cool now to be a blue collar guy. Right? That's why you see all these guys who sit in cubicles or roll around with hats and say blue collar and they're the rest and, like, they work out in the field and they don't, you know, but that's the style. That's what that's what's in now because it's cool. You know, back in the day, it was cool. It was a it was It was cool and lucrative and a decent living to be an HVAC guy or a plumber or an electrician. Right? And for, like, twenty or thirty years, man, the blue collar trades just nosedive, the people just looked at you and, like, oh, you didn't go to college. Oh, you're you're an HVAC guy. You're a plumber. It was, like, It was, like, just this, like, negative connotation, you know, like, oh, you're not you're less. You're less than us because you're not you don't work a white collar job. Right? Blue collar is the new white collar. And, and there's a lot of people leaving corporate America finding their way into the trades and figure out what it is they wanna do and whether it be a plumber, electrician, carpenter, HVAC guy, whatever. One of the things I love about HVAC is that we're all of the above, all in one. You know, we have to know it all. And You should. You should, brother. Yeah. And it's not that not maybe not that we're proficient as as proficient in electrical stuff as electrician would be. But we still have to know enough to be safe about it and do things the right way. But, yeah, we really need to do a better job of attracting people like you would get out and you would want to attract, you know, a a woman, right, from opposite sex or in a relationship, you want to attract them. You're not out there recruiting people. You know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe that's your business model. I don't know. But No. I I agree. And I use the word awareness, you know, trying to create awareness about what we do and and what happens when you don't have what we do and how quickly you become uncomfortable and wish you knew somebody who knew how to do what we knew how to do. Yep. So that's a great point, though, creating the attraction and you know, you go back to the law of attraction. It's it's creating good, and people are drawn to it. So I that's that's well said. What what happens without revealing the details? What do you see HVAC tactical be coming other than the awesome tactical mindset brand that you've got already rooted. Is it a is it a a lifestyle business? Is it educational? Do you delve into that? Or are you still trying to kinda figure out what all you wanna do with it. No. I think we've come to the realization. Obviously, this brand is evolving, right, at a pretty rapid rate. Come to the realization that this brand needs to put their hands in everything that this industry needs that is not currently being done or currently being done well. And so, we have we have a plan to put together. I mean, we've already found the place to do it. We already have money in place to make this happen. And there's a few things that are stopping us from pulling the trigger today. But, it's coming and it's going to happen. Number one is, a training facility for HVAC specific on technical install installation sales business because most guys who are in business in HVAC don't know how to run a business. When they they get at the end of five years and realize they gotta close-up shop because they didn't make any money. Right? Just because you're collecting a check from a homeowner doesn't mean you're making money. So and also a team building, a facility for team building. So you can bring your entire team out. You'll be saturated in HVAC but we're gonna have a good time. And, you know, again, doing doing this again, there's a ton of training facilities all over America. Right? This is doing something in a way that's never been done before. And then another thing that we're working on is, bringing affordable health care to the trade. So, with as many people, two years ago, I mentioned this to somebody as many people as we have in our industry, there's no reason we shouldn't have our own health care platform. We should we should have our own credit card blue collar credit card. Right? Redeeming points, buying equipment, buying material, all this stuff. Don't use house accounts at at, you know, your parts house or whatever. Put on a credit card. We'll get the we'll get the points back and everything for all that redeem your miles and all that good stuff. And so, These are all things that we're working towards with other people who have backgrounds and all this stuff. And, like, I'm just trying to transform the industry from this antiquated way of thinking and the way that we do things and bring it up to speed because we've we are definitely not where we need to be. And at the end of the day, I want to leave this industry in a better place than when I found it. And, and just to leave my mark and go, hey, man. I I did my part to leave this trade in a better condition than what it was when I when I stepped into it. But the brand itself To answer the actual question, the brand itself, my vision for the brand itself is to become, what monster energy and red bull is to action sports. But to HVAC. Nice. Yep. Well, it you're off to a good start I'm I'm excited by it. I think there's a lot of other people. I was at I was at, at the show this year when you had your awards. I did not attend, but I was at Ashray and the buzz around your award show was really fun. Some friends of mine won awards. Some some friends were just in the crowd watching and and participating, but that was a really cool thing you did I I'm excited. Are will that be a yearly thing or how how is that? It's a yearly thing. It follows HR or as you put it ashrae. A lot of people still call it ashrae. Some people call a. It's not my role. Typically, the older generation calls it ashrae. That's what I figured out. Yeah. I'm only back to thirty of them, Ben. Well, it was in it was in Atlanta. Right? My first HR was in, like, two thousand and nine or something like that. And, la this last one in Atlanta, I asked somebody, I go, why does everybody keep calling this thing Ashray And then we had this long lengthy conversation. I said, okay. It all makes sense now. But, yeah, that the whole idea with the award show is that it follows HR every year from city to city. And the reason that we decided to do that is because when we really started gathering on social media, we started meeting up at HR. That was, like, the the the yearly meetup for all of us. Right? And so my original plan was just to throw a part I just wanna throw out party for Instagramers. Right? That's how this whole thing started. And we had this little award thing with that we were doing in the background, the very first one we did at three awards, we just did it over Instagram. And then, a friend of mine was like, hey, man. Why did we're gonna throw a party? Like, we're gonna coordinate all that. Why don't we just coordinate an award show with a party. And I was like, well, okay. I mean, I don't know how to do any of that. And he's like, I'll help you do it. And so that's how the first one started. And that was in Vegas. In twenty twenty, twenty twenty, twenty twenty two or one, something like that. Whatever it was before Twenty twenty. I think we've missed twenty one with COVID Yeah. So it'd be twenty twenty. Then we skipped the year, then we hit, then we hit Atlanta, and then now we're going into, to Chicago. So Yeah. Always love going to Chicago in the winter for that show. Always placed on the planet, during January, but I look forward to that. I I have been to many Ashray AHR events, and I think I've been to thirty, oddly enough. Because Like you, that's where your people are. And, you know, my my people didn't have Instagram. We had see the show next year. And then you would get together and be us about all the stuff you get all year as opposed to being able to do it in real time like we have now. So super duper cool to do that. Excited to see, you know, generation two or rev two of coming, because I'm sure it'll be bigger and better than it was. But also, HR them HR themselves, you know, they've been a huge supporter of what we've been doing and so much so that they recognize they brought in the podcast pavilion, right, recognizing podcasters and pushing that whole platform, and then also that the last show in Atlanta, they asked me to come in and moderate a social media panel for them. And so we brought all these big influencers from HVAC all over social media YouTube, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. We brought them all in, and it was had this big conversation. And it was just really cool. So it's cool to see kinda, like, this tightened, like, Ashray who's been around forever. Right? Just say, hey, look, this is the new thing. This is what's happening. This is where the industries We need to facilitate this. Otherwise, somebody else is. Right? Yep. We're very appreciative of that because they've really helped us build the platform for sure. You know, Ben, you mentioned earlier, about sponsors and about partners, industry partners. And You know, I've got a good good friend, Troy Danko, Troy used to work for one of our companies, Dowlin Wilmanton, North Carolina, and watching Troy, watching, I I don't know, any number of people, McCready, up in Canada, You know, these folks have these relationships with OEMs and with with products. How And I haven't had this conversation with an OEM. So this is not a loaded question, but are they embracing it like they seem to be or are they is it a flash in the pan? Or do you think this is something that they that the manufacturers and the and the partners really see a value. Do you think they value what we're doing? I think they're still trying to figure it out. And and so what we find is, you know, I don't like the word influencer, but For lack of better term, that's what they refer to us as. Right? If you have a decent following on social media, that's what you are. You're just classified as an in Yeah. So when we get approached by companies, they'll be like, the the old school way would be, hey, we're gonna give you this tool, and then you make cool video for us. Okay? And most guys would be like, okay. Cool. Great. I get him three hundred dollar tool. That's awesome. Right? Or, hey, we're gonna send you this hat and this shirt and then make a video about it. Right? And it's like, those days are gone. Right? And so What we're finding now is we're finding because these companies are approaching these influencers, and they're saying, hey, we want you to do this. And then the influencer turns around and it says, well, here's my rate card. Right? And they go rate card. And then they look at it and it's just like, oh, they have, like, legitimate pricing. Like, they charge for this stuff. And go, yeah, this just turned into a business. Right? I've realized that my time and my platform and my, you know, my what I'm doing here, it's it brings value. So why would I not why would I not get paid for that? Right? And so what we're finding now is the these these companies now are trying to bypass the larger influencers and go to the smaller influencers that have maybe two, three, four, five thousand followers instead of the guys that have fifty to a hundred, two hundred thousand followers, and then they go, hey, we're willing to give you tool if you'll make a video for us. Right? And a lot of these guys are like, okay. You know? And then they do it. And then you got guys like us in the background going, guys stop doing that, dude. Stop doing that. Right? It's very similar to contractors coming in and going, oh, he said he'll do it for ten grand. I'll do it for eight. You know? Same concept. So you're you're you're basically taking the you're you're degrading the integrity of what we're trying to do because these companies have been making money off of us for a long long time. Right? And they have really big marketing budgets. So we're trying to force them to utilize those marketing budgets and give back to the people in the tree. So that's that's what we're trying to do, and why we're we're kinda grouping together when it comes to the social media stuff. So what these with these manufacturers, maybe I'm giving maybe I'm showing my cards too much here, but what these companies don't realize is that when they approach somebody like me, And then they go approach a buddy of mine who's got more followers than me, they don't realize that me and my buddy talk. Right? And we're all in these group chats. And we go, hey, x y z company hit hit me up. They want this. They're not willing to do this and this and this. And then the guy goes, yeah. They hit me up yesterday. Right? And so there's this kind of, like, internal chatter where these companies are thinking that they're being savvy, but we already know what's going on because we've developed a community. We communicate with each other. So it's fine watching it develop, though, because just being, you know, on the front, I've never seen an industry develop, other than the data center market. I kinda saw it developing from old school, mainframe computers all the way through where we were. And now back to where we were, with water cooled equipment again. But when when you're putting together the magazine, I think a lot of people think that print is dead. But I find that yours. I find that it can be very refreshing to have a quality book to hold and to look at myself. All all of my books, I don't do Kindle. I don't I don't care for that. I don't like paper. And I'm curious of of the advertisers that helped support and and pay for this magazine. What what was their reaction to this? Was it, like, cool or were skeptical? Or well, What was the and I'm not talking about specifics, obviously, but stressing general feeling of that. So what we did is we circled back to the sponsors that sponsored our our award show. And said, hey. So how it started was this magazine was basically a catalog magazine for the award show. K? And, had me on the cover, but it was a different photo, slightly different book, had a bunch of ad I had a bunch of stuff from all the sponsors of the show, basically. And, and everybody at the at the show was like, hey. You said we were gonna have a catalog, but, like, this is like a legitimate magazine. Like, this is cool, man. And then what it really is it sparked this thing whereas, like, well, maybe we should do a magazine. And then as we ask people, and we do some people who didn't have to ask, they're just like, you need to do a magazine. And so I'm like, okay. Well, let's try this. Right? So I went back to the sponsors of the original show. And I said, hey, look, There's a lot of demand for this. Think we're gonna try this. If you're interested in doing this, we'd love to have you, and if not, completely okay. Right? Because sponsors don't like to be asked for money more than once. That's something that I've had to learn. So we had some sponsors that said, no. We'll get a hold out. We'll see how the next we'll see how it goes, you know, because they were a little little sketchy. Others were like, yeah, no doubt. Let's do it. They, you know, they doubled down on and said, let's go. And so we just pushed it out. And I think the people who decided to jump in the in the magazine realized, and they all got copies of it. And they're like, dude, this is so well put together. Like, this is great. This is something so different. And I think that anybody who's Anybody who's stepping into the circle of what we're doing, not just the tactical brand, but the community itself It's just so different. It's so different from the way that you've done things for the last thirty, forty, fifty years in this business that It's going to seem off. It's going to seem very uncomfortable at first. But then you quickly realize, like, how many people are standing behind all this stuff and how many people want this. And then now these minute these these companies are very quickly going we're all on board dude hundred percent. You know, I got and my last gold sponsor of the show was RLS Rapidocking Systems. I'm not sure if you know who they are or not. But he was like, dude, this is the easiest check for me to write every year. Like, he is full blown invested in what we got going on because he sees the writing on the wall. And, supco, our title sponsor, I have, like, an outstanding by the way. Yeah. This was actually the the red carpet backdrop that we had at the award show. I just decided to hang it up in my office. But, yeah, SUPCO is, another company that's like, dude, we're all in. We're here. You know what I mean? Like, we love this. We wanna support this. And I think what it's showing the community is it's showing the community that we have you. We got your back. Right? And, in turn, it's kinda like they support us. We support them. Right? Well, it's really in spiring. I think it's a good word is, these are brands that are not off brands. You know, if you're in the business, you know RLS and you know SUPCO, these are names that mean something. And when they're behind the product, I think that really helps people feel like they're safe to follow your brand if you have the the the backing of these major brands. I mean, you go in the supply house and as old as you are, supco has been there, you know, That's just I remember seeing SUPCO in when I was a kit in the stores. I remember hard start relays, you know, and that's what that's the first thing that comes to mind for me is a hard start kit. But I think that that's really, a clever I don't I don't wanna say clever because that sounds a little manipulative, but just an excellent way for people to feel good about the magazines, having those quality kind of names you have on on your sponsor page. So congrats on that. I appreciate that. But again, it all boils down to relationships. Right? Sure. Absolutely. I've been real cautious to not burn bridges I've been real cautious to just treat people with respect. And when people say no, I'm not gonna push you. It's like, if you're not ready, you're just not ready. Right? But I will tell people, you know, you're gonna miss out because, you know, this is gonna be something. And if you're not willing to jump on board, at some point, it might be too late. You know? So Well, I I'll look at what you're doing kinda like I've always sold. I'm not a good salesman. I'm a really good educator so that when you get ready to buy, you call me. I don't I'm not I'm not pushing for you. I'm just telling you what your options are. Here's what's going to happen. In my best guess in in in eight months, you're gonna wish you had done this, but I get the fact you can't do it now. But when you get ready, call me. And, you know, I think that that's a a lot of what I'm hearing, but, I just really love it. Alright. So, I will be waiting on the announcement of all these fun things you have with baited breath to hear the, I'd love to come to your place when you get it when you get ready. That'd be cool. It's gonna be awesome. We got a lot of cool things happening. I mean, we've talked to I'm talking to manufacturers of pants and boots and talking to, you know, people about tools and stuff like that. And, I mean, Literally, the the the sky's wide open for this. Right? But it's kinda like, I just wanna be strategic. I wanna try to stick to stick to the avenue of things that are different. Right? So, you know, and at the end of the day, man, like, I'm an old timer already in this Right? I'm only forty one, but I feel like I've been doing this for so long. I'm just I'm it's just like I've seen all of these changes. Right? And, And, really, for me, man, I'm just trying to pay everything forward. I'm trying to bring up these young guys, bring them up to speed, and, like, then I can pass the torch off to them. And then they can keep on running. Well, I just go right off in the sunset someplace, you know. But, We will make you a sunset riding in You know what? I'm saying? I don't look like I got like walks on the beach. Well, you may, but, you like to come back from the beach too. So Yeah. It's this industry has a funny way of never letting you go, man. It just never does. I I love it. I'm in my forty first summer. A full time air conditioning business. I started in nineteen eighty two full time. And like you, I grew up in the business. So I is my honor and my duty to give back to the to the -- Yep. -- in this pre because I love it. I really love it, and you're talking about Growhouses a while ago. You know, that's something that over the last couple of years I've really delved into deeply. And whether however you feel about cannabis is Great. But one day, we're gonna get a lot more than cannabis out in grow houses. It's gonna be tomatoes and carrots and cucumbers and all the things that we need And the science behind indoor cultivation is just really awesome from a from a thermodynamic and from a psychometric standpoint. So I think that's exciting. I think that health care has so many different things we can learn about environmental conditioning. I think the data center world. Everything and I've yet to mention human comfort. So, like you said, when you when you kick off. There's so many different vertical markets within the HVAC industry that you can just go forever and not get bored. But, yeah, Yeah. It's really incredible. I love this industry. I'm passionate about it. If you haven't noticed, you know, I'm passionate about this industry. And I might you know, They say is that sales is no is really nothing more than a a buddy of mine. It always said this and it's always stuck with me sales is nothing more than the successful transfer belief from one person to another. Right? And if you're married, you probably sold your spouse this morning before you even left the house. Right? Yep. And, and so that always is just really stuck with me. And so when I go to people's homes, people will tell me, like, you're a really good salesman. And I'm, like, I'm not trying to sell you anything, like, just my passion in my energy that I bring to the table automatically makes you want it. So This this book right here it's written by a friend of mine, Jeffrey Gidimer. And this trust for the people that watching and listening is is trust. It's the little teal book of trust by Gitmer. What? It was a hundred pages. And it just nails down the sales you said it while ago. The exchange of trust of okay. You got it. Okay. I'm ready for it in the right way. Know what I mean? It's not a it's not pushy. It's not anything but informative and and good. So well, man, I know we're, we're kind of getting on top of the hour here. I just this has been a a blast, Ben. I've learned I've loved learning more about what you're doing. What you're all about. I hope you'll come back later, and tell us where you are in the, you know, the all the fun stuff you couldn't tell us. Day, but you you baited us a little bit. So we'll come back and eat that bait later. It's all part of the strategy. I like it. I like it. I like it. But, no doubt. Appreciate the time. Really appreciate what you're doing for the industry. I'm I feel You know, every time I hear somebody say, these young people, I'm like, dude, you don't know our young people because they're on fire. We're we we are shocked full of good. So -- Yeah. -- anybody who says that is just truly disconnected from what's actually happening. So greed or or like you said earlier, they're just angry by nature. So, but good stuff. Well, if I got beat up for thirty years, I'd be pretty angry too. Yeah. How but how much of that was self abuse? That's for that one. It's a choice. Yeah. It's a choice. Exactly. Well, gabby, it looks like we have had fifty some five minutes of awesome conversation with an unstoppable man. So, I'm usually very quiet. You got any thoughts on this, Gabby? I I have been quiet. I've just been I've been listening. I think it's I mean, it sounds really cool. I really love to hear about what you're doing. I think it's not only You feel it? You can feel it. Yeah. It's very it's it's not only like innovative and creative and fun But I think it's just a great way to, I mean, something that I feel like I talk about every day all the time is community. And I really feel like what you're doing is an excellent way to bring community to the whole of HVAC the HVAC industry as well as reach from surrounding areas, getting other people interested just by kinda seeing what's going on and being like, oh, like, that actually looks like a lot of fun. What is that? And then kinda learning more from there and seeing if HVAC is right for them. So I think it's really cool what you're doing, and I've really enjoyed hearing about it. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Well, let you, lead us to the the pearly gates. No. Not the pearly gates, but the the farm gate. Why don't you take us, Donald? I will be at the Burley Gates. I will be and I hope I hope to see you there, man. Let's see. Not not quite yet, guys. Let's Yeah. She's twenty one, Ben. So we we got a ways for Cree? Same thing. Same thing. Yeah. Same thing. So well, I appreciate y'all having me for sure. Great meeting you. Hopefully, I can meet you at HR. With tickets tickets will become available for the show September first. That'll be, you'll be able to find that through hvac tactical dot com. And we'd hope to see you guys there. But we'll be there for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us Ben, and how can people get behind me? You can find me pretty much on every social media platform at HVAC tactical. That's the handle. And then you can find the website at hvac tactical dot com. And, you can buy all your swag there. You can do, you can check out sponsors of the show there. You can look at the award show pictures and then watch the actual, video of the award show. All that information is available. Website. So Thanks again, Ben, for joining us. Everyone, thank you for tuning in to another episode of straight out of Crumpton. For more episodes like this, subscribe to the podcast through Apple or Spotify Podcasts. And don't forget to check out greg crumpton dot com for all your Greg crumpton content.