Unveiling the Power of Classroom Audio Distribution Systems: Enhancing Learning Through Even Voice Distribution

Hello, everyone. Let's get started. My name is Mark Jones. I'm the VP of Sales at Frontrow, and we're very excited about the discussion today. I'd like to introduce you to Dave Gordy. He's the director of pediatric audiology at Otocon. He'll be leading our discussion today, and I'm gonna let Dave introduce you to his special guest. Good day, everyone. My name is Dave Gordy, and I'm the of pediatric audiology for oticon, and it's my pleasure to welcome you today for this session. We're very, very thankful for front row for organizing today's discussion. As you know, front row has been a key player in classroom communication systems, and they've been dedicated to providing solutions for well over forty years. So I would like to begin by first extending a huge thank you to the team at Front Row and more specifically to Mark Chris and Scott for organizing today's discussion. So it is my pleasure to introduce to you today, our guest speaker, my friend and colleague, Krista Yusko. Krista has been an educational audiologist in the Edmonton area for well over twenty years, and one thing we can constantly say is that she has been very passionate about providing the best support to students with hearing loss and those kids with special listening needs. So welcome Christa. Thank you, Dave. I'm excited to be here. Awesome. So, you know, we're here today virtually. Ideally, Christa, you and I would be sitting on the front porch of some mountain lodge in big leather chairs having this conversation, but the situation of course requires us to be at home. And although not as exciting, I am excited to talk to you about today's topic, which is stream audio distribution systems. So first of all, we have a name change that's been around for a while. We used to call these systems sound field or free field systems, why do you think there was that name changed to classroom audio or cats Well, excellent question. A lot of people still refer to them as Soundfield FM. A lot of school personnel and speech language pathologists They're no different. They're the same piece of technology, same endgame of making teacher's speech more easily understood by students. But a couple reasons for the name change is Soundfield FM amplification, FM refers to frequency modulation, and the majority of these systems are no longer running on an FM signal, but rather they're using digital modulation, or DM, or infrared, or so IR. So that takes the FM piece of the moniker out of play, and then the other part is the word amplification, so sound field amplifier This suggests that the purpose of these systems is to amplify or loudly broadcast a teacher's voice, When really that's not the goal, the goal is to evenly distribute the voice throughout the classroom. So hence the new name of classroom audio distribution system, or like we refer to them as CADs. Yeah. And that does make good sense. I know I've been using a front row Juno infrared. Definitely, the goal is not to blow the students out of the water with loud sound, but rather just enhance your voice as you just said. So that does make good sense. So that being said, what do you think we see these systems popping up in everyday classrooms supporting all different different ages of students. Why do you think CAD's are critical for learning. Gosh. Where to begin? And you're right. They are now becoming standard in most, you know, kindergarten to maybe grade six classrooms, the lower grade classrooms, these are commonplace now. And so there's a few reasons why they are just I'm so grateful that they're in these classrooms. One of the reasons being the amount of time that students are actually spent required to use their hearing for learning, so the amount of time they're spending listening. So in most settings, to learn the curriculum, students need to use their hearing or their listening. So there's some six that say it could be up to sixty five percent of the day in those younger grades where kids are using their hearing to learn. So that's a huge part of the day, so it makes sense that we'd want to make that as easy as possible for them. So one, the amount of time spent listening. The other one, this is one of my my favorites, is the pediatric brain, and this is something we don't often take into consideration But for some reason, you know, kids enter school, and we we don't expect them to come to school talking like adults, you know, having those all their speech sounds and we don't expect them. They're fine motor skills to be that of adults. We're not expecting them to write like adults. But for some reason, we do expect or assume that they're hearing like adults, and this is actually both neurologically or physiologically not the case. And this is because the part of the brain that's responsible for hearing and understanding, which is the auditory cortex. That part of the brain isn't actually mature until we're about thirteen to fifteen years of age. So that's you know, nearing the end of students' educational career. So that brain is when we stand at the back of a classroom, and we think, yeah, that sounds pretty good. That pediatric brain is not hearing things the same way that us as an adult in that classroom would be hearing. So that's number two. And then this one is a big one, is the teacher voice, quote, unquote. So, excuse me, while I get on my soapbox. So, some teachers will say, like, I don't need one of those. I have a loud voice, I have a teacher voice. So I say a couple things. One, I say, well, you you're right. You don't need it. They do. These pediatric brains need it. And the other part of that is, I may I can't disagree with them. Some sounds can be made louder using a teacher voice. Here's the thing though. These sounds are inherently low pitched. They're inherently loud because they're low pitched. And they're may they're able to be made even louder with our diaphragm using our teacher voice. So sounds like b. So a lot of those heavy sounds when we use our diaphragm using our teacher voice those sounds can really go far and loud and that's what gives about ninety percent of speech its volume. Are those sounds. Great. However, there's a lot of other sounds that are in my mind. I'll I will say probably more important, and these sounds are inherently high pitched, so they're inherently quiet, and they cannot be made louder with our diaphragm. And unfortunately, these are the sounds that give speech its understanding. So these are the sounds what we sometimes call whisper sounds. So if we think about some of those sounds like the s sound, that's possessives. It's plurals, t sound, We spell ED, but we say t for verb noun agreement, so walked, talked. So a lot of those sounds, we cannot make louder with our diaphragm. I challenge teachers. I say, okay, try to yell a silent TH. How as you can, go for it. So those sounds, I don't care how loud of a teacher voice you have, the words thin fin, sin, pin, and tin may all sound like tin if your any distance away from the teacher or if there's background noise. So teacher voice, yes it makes speech louder, but it doesn't make speech clearer or easier to understand, and it's the CAD's microphone that actually picks up those sounds. That's the goal with the CAD is picking up those quiet high pitched sounds and distributing those throughout the room. Excellent. And you know, I think it's really important and I think many many of us as adult listeners forget that you know, these sounds are so discreet and that the classroom is such an auditory verbal environment where there's this assumption that I'm sitting in this room filled with background noise and the teacher's distance is changing between myself and, you know, the speaker that I'm going to be able to hear everything, and so I hear what you're saying, that this is really important to try and distribute the teacher's voice equally. What does that mean in terms of us setting up the volume on the CAD? How important is it for us to get that volume just right? I'm very glad you asked that, Dave. I'm so glad. So, you know, I love to see teachers using their consistently because that tells me, you know, they're getting it. They get the importance of that auditory message getting into the brain. However, More often than not, I am turning these systems down when I walk into classroom. The the teachers are setting these volumes much too loud. And I think The the thought behind that is if I can hear myself, then they must be able to hear me. But if we think back a little bit a few minutes ago, if we think back to that name change, the goal isn't to amplify, it's just to distribute it evenly. And the problem is there's something that happens when the volume is set too loud. And so the loud those loud sounds that are inherently loud if we make them louder, what happens is they smear out those high pitched sounds those are the sounds we actually want to make more audible or more easily able to be heard. And so if we crank that volume, then those sounds. It's like this smearing or a masking of those really high pitched quiet whisper sounds. And then the consequence of that is we're actually making speech more difficult to hear and understand instead of improving that for students. So my rule of thumb for volume is if you can easily hear yourself, as a talker and a user of a CAD system. If I can easily hear myself, it's set too loud. I should kind of have say to my back row, hey, guys, am I on? I gosh, I sound like I'm on. Am I on back row? And when they say, yeah, we can hear you, you're good. Then I know that that's a great volume setting. Yeah. But I think that's a really nice rule of thumb and certainly good information to to share with those using the systems. I guess, you know, on the topic of teachers and user tips, what would you say the level of importance is around that placement of that microphone for the Cads? Yeah. It's it is actually really important. I've seen Cads microphones being well, let me just say there's a lot of different styles of microphones. There's the Boom style microphone, which is the Britney Spears style microphone, then there are appell like microphones that clip onto the shirt and really becoming more common is the lavalier style or the necklace style. And these can all based on user preference be too close or too far away from the mouth. And so when it is too close, we get a lot of those popping sounds, the pees and, you know, as Justin Trudeau would say maybe moist talkers, some of those sounds would be amplified The problem is you the more common problem is teachers place it too far in that lapel or lavalier style. And what happens with that if the microphone is too far away, a lot of the time it's too far low on the chest, it's too low on the chest, teachers crank the volume up, and then when that happens, we get distortion, and we get maybe squealing or feedback in room. So again, I have another kind of rule of thumb. So for for any microphone that's worn at the chest level, so a lapel mic or a lavalier mic, is I do like to say the level of the sternum as a general rule. As opposed someone, some people use the thumb and the finger, kind of the old telephone, symbol there to indicate where to put that microphone. I don't like saying that because a lot of the times the teachers drop their chin or the hand of the size is different, and often that results in too low of a placement. So I just like to think of it as at on at the sternum, or at the collar bones. And then also, because we're placing it up there at the sternum level, we have to really keep in mind of things like jewelry and scarves or a collar that flips over and can cover that microphone. Because that will, of course, impact the audibility or how easy it is to hear through it. Yeah, I think the sternum is a really nice guideline. I mean, too, if you have huge hands and, you know, if if I take my hand, I put it to my chin. It goes all the way down to my belly button. I don't want to be wearing it there, and I do I. So I think this sternum is a really nice place to as a as a guideline, of course, my my it doesn't go all the way that low. I my hands are a little bit, but anyways, nice guideline. Nice suggestions. So I wanted to now now we had a nice introduction to the CAD system and how things have changed and COVID, we now are living in this new reality where we are using virtual online learning. We're doing in person learning with masks. I'm really happy that I was able to contribute to some of the research that was out there around the use of masks along with Raj and Atcherson and some and goldstein, you know, this collective bit of evidence really told us that when teachers are wearing masks that through our our simulated findings that there is the potential to compromise audibility for all students with typical hearing and those with hearing loss. So I guess we're now in a place where we're to understand the functional listening needs of our students when they are attending in person learning and the impact of masks. I guess, now that we, what we know, what we know, which is that masks will attenuate mid and high frequency sounds, and as you just mentioned, those high frequency speech sounds carry so much important information. We may be placing our students at risk for not receiving that optimal signal. So I guess what I'm wondering is is you're back at work. What are you seeing the potential impact on your students with hearing loss and those with typical hearing? Yeah. Oh, gosh. David's such a good question and I have to say that my scope of practice has changed significantly. I I never thought that large portion of my work day would include talking PPE. It's it's just mind boggling, but that seems to be what I talk about because that's what teachers are asking about. And interestingly enough, students are asking too because they are clearly struggling. And my students who are hard of hearing who previously may have said, I'm doing okay. I don't I don't know. You know, they're teenagers trying to experiment with their autonomy and maybe pushing back a little with their technology, these guys are are right on board with understanding the impact of of the PPE. So clearly we know that face coverings of any kind, they're completely affecting kids' speech understanding for both kids who are with hearing and typically hearing kids. You know the transparent PPE, they're degrading those speech sounds, and then no transparent PPE, we lose visual cues that my heart of hearing kids so use for to facilitate their understanding. You know, if we think back to that example I gave earlier, thin pin, thin, thin, tin, all of that is on the understanding that if if that's muffled by a mask, understanding is going to be really that emphasis will be on the speech reading or the lip reading cues that won't be able to be seen through a non transparent mask or a cloth mask. So, you know, you mentioned Sam Atterson from the UFT, so he actually, what his study, which you're going to be familiar with, suggested that there's a loss of sound pressure of anywhere between five and twenty nine depending on the type of mask or combination of shield mask. And so what that means is, man, every kid out there may be learning, well, or the majority of kids may be learning with a slight to mild hearing loss, which is truly significant. So that back row now is even because someone has to sit in the back row. They're even at a greater disadvantage than they than they were before. So it is a huge part of my work and students and teachers alike are extremely curious and concerned about how to accommodate for that loss of information. One of the things I've noticed recent recently in in anecdotally is I'm hearing there's a lot more interest in the use of CAD systems in classrooms with children with typical hearing. And so these are not just elementary school kids where we are talking about, you know, the development y development developing auditory system, but actually high school students as well. Are you hearing or seeing also interest in using CAD systems for more kids with typical hearing as a way to try and help facilitate better speech understanding when personal protection equipment is being used. I would love to say that I am. Schools are really concerned about how to communicate effectively because teachers and administrators alike, they're all experiencing firsthand, what it's like they to I'm sorry, but it's like to listen with a mask. They've experienced hearing loss firsthand now how difficult it is when that mask is on to understand. And the flip side of that is they're they're really trying. However, with the mass amount of budget cuts and budget allocation for things like PPE and sanitizing, school budget is always of a concern for administrators that I I talk to. I would love to see Cads in all classrooms in North America. I think high school teachers are still not quite there, but I'm hoping that the mask pandemic or they use it the mask pandemic or the COVID pandemic, maybe opens their eyes a little bit. Yeah. That is a that is a really good point, is that it might be an opportunity. Again, when so many school based professionals are now having to wear masks and listen to others with masks, it does actually give them those simulations that we used to do with so many other teachers. So now, it is really front and center how PPE is compromising audibility. So I think you make a good point there about the budget scenario, which is that It seems like there are those states and provinces that do have some access to more resources than others, and that means budget. And hopefully once things get perhaps better understood of what daily cleaning and interactions look like, then they can start looking at the possibility of CADs for everybody. I know we were using CADs as part of a study yet looking at its impact on new language learners that our high school students, and we found that it had a huge impact. So, you know, I think the broad appeal or the broad application of CADs certainly hasn't been fully discovered yet. I guess the other thing I'd like to know is when we if we are trying to make a case for a classroom audio distribution system, you know, say like a Juno, how can we provide some data to an administrator. So are there some evaluations to demonstrate the effectiveness of these systems that could be easily completed by, say, an educational audiologist or a classroom teacher? Yeah, great question. So a lot of times the facilities people in a school district may just be plunking these things in rooms without maybe looking at some of the other variables like the river reverberation or echo in the room, and so having an educational audiologist involved to support the choice of system is really great. You know, the Juno Tower does has a lot of flexibility because of the size and and portability of it, so that definitely are those are things to consider. If you want something, let's say, in the library or to use for parent meetings, and you're right. We need to measure how effective is this. So there's a couple things that can be done, something that's called real room procedures, and that's where an educational audiologist would perform a listening check and or functional check of the classroom and the hearing technologies, so looking for competing noise or noise interference, looking at the maybe reverberation of the room and analyzing the clarity of that speech signal, and then maybe making any adjustments to the equalizer if we want to if that system has that ability to maybe crank up those high frequency sounds and lower the low frequency because we already talked about the importance of those. And then we can do some behavioral procedures as well, where an educational audiologist would be able would be able to provide some pre cads testing or inventories or questionnaires and then doing that post cat, so maybe a couple weeks later. And so something like that would be Karen Anderson's listening inventory for education, the life. So that there's a student questionnaire portion and a teacher question an error, so pre and post testing, and we could also do some speech recognition testing as well, so how well our students being able to understand speech before having a CAD and then after and doing some comparative looks at those at that comparisons. Yeah. Those sound like really great functional ways to evaluate the benefit of the CAD system. I guess my final question that I wanted to ask you is many of us are making decisions or if we think of administrators, they love to look at research articles that talk about the use of technology in the classroom, and do you have a favorite research article that discusses the benefit of classroom audio distribution systems. And I will say that the research in CADs isn't current. Because when CADs were really becoming more popular and more where we're seeing them more frequently in classrooms, That was really in the early ninety, late eighty's, early ninety's, and that's when all the research was being done. And the thing about CAD's research is it was overwhelmingly in favor of CAD's, like there was no question that CAD were beneficial. So there didn't seem to be much subsequent research on the matter because, hey, these things are great. And, you know, you talked about language learners. We can talk about students with attention deficit, fluctuating hearing loss, so it really supported all learners. Even students with who were in academic challenge programs, the research was indicating that literacy was improving. But some of my my favorites, so they are older, so leavitt and Flexer in nineteen ninety one, and then Carl Crandell in ninety, they had two very similar studies that they published on, and they used something called the Ratsy or the bid transmission of speech index for these studies, and and Carl Crandell looked at some older students or sorry younger students and Lovett and Flexer looked at a little bit older population, and what they did is they measured the ability to understand spoken language against distance in the classroom. And so they used the quinoa or knowles electronic mannequin for acoustic research. So these are very cool studies that were done. That measure the ability for speech to be understood at different places, different distances in a classroom setup. And then so they're really cool. And I will say that they both indicated that the further back the student is sitting or the further back we are, the greater that speech signal is segregated. Like, down to, you know, in the areas of fifty percent, so we're saying, students at the back of the class are getting half of that acoustic signal. So I just love both of those studies, and Burgg et al in nineteen ninety six wrote an article that kind of summarized all of these and added a few extra bits. So those are my my go tos as my Friday night reads, maybe with a glass of wine. There's nothing wrong with reviewing such great research done by those individuals. I mean, they're the ones that really laid this strong foundation that supports the use of CADs. Now, you recently wrote an article for the Canadian audiologist that is going to be published very soon. Tell us a little bit about what you were focusing on there. Dave, I just wanted to kind of sum up what the research has already been telling us. And remind and just about putting it in a more, I guess it was more of a chatty format. My goal was for it to be shared, maybe by SLPs and with teachers so that people just got a reminder of how important Cads are a lot of times teachers again, they say, hey, I don't need it. So really by saying I don't need a microphone we are such a dangerous message, because when teachers say I don't need a microphone, I think the message that is being sent is my discomfort in wearing a microphone is more important than your ability to stat to understand what I'm saying. And I think that's a pretty dangerous place to sit. So I just kind of wanted to remind people about why it's important, about what we're missing when we're not using them, what kids are missing when when they're not being used. Again, the huge importance on that volume because functionally When I'm in the classroom, that's the biggest mishap that I see is the volume's too high and the mics are too low. So it was just supposed to be an easy to consume article for maybe people who aren't audiologists. Well, I think after you shared the article with me pre publication that you accomplish that mission really nicely and I think it will reach a lot of different professionals, those that you know, are working in hearing care and those that are not. So I think it was really well done and I I'm excited to see that article come out. Well, that's a really nice discussion that we had today. I wanna thank you for your time. Even Did you have any final comments you wanted to share before we wrap things up? I do. I just wanted to say, with COVID and masks, really, the importance is it cannot be underestimated now. And if someone is uncomfortable wearing it. It's just we have to remember what we're going to be providing the students by wearing them. You know, we wouldn't hang an incandescent light bulb in a classroom. And expect kids to be able to see and effectively for learning. So we just have to put our discomfort aside of maybe wearing the microphones and especially with masks and just provide kids with the best acoustic opportunity that we can. Wonderful. Well, thank you again, and thank you again to front row for organizing this wonderful discussion and conversation, and I wish everyone a great rest of the day. Thanks again for attending. Just that was wonderful. I appreciate your time and your expertise, and I hope everyone watching this today got a lot out of the facts. I know I did. If you'd like more information about some of the studies mentioned or if you'd like more information about some of Probros products, that can address these issues, please reach out to us. You can find us at w w w dot go front road dot com. Thank you, and have a great day.