Bullying, Suicide, and Society The Unseen Crisis in K-12 Education

Welcome to the Secured podcast. This is Mike Betraya, your host and co host Mike Montsev with ASAP Security Services. Today we're going to talk about a few things that may be somewhat controversial, but if you know us, you know us well. We're not going to shy away from the topics that everybody else is scared to talk about. With that said, I wanna start out just kinda start us off with right to it. Last month, March, there was a a report NBC News report, of a student in Oklahoma that, was attacked by a group of other students due to due to a bullying incident. That bullying incident then led to that student being hospitalized for a short period of time and then later taking their life due to an overdose of a mixture of over the counter, medication and prescription drugs. So Here's a question. Why did it make the news? Why did it make that news? This happens all the time. Why did this case make Because this kid is transgender. That's why. And we're gonna talk about that. Right? So I'll start out with the NBC News report. It's it's titled death of transgender student, next Benedict ruled suicide by medical examiner. Just gonna give you a little bit of a quick background as much as I can before we get into some some conversation. So the the articles written on March thirteenth two thousand twenty four says the death of Oklahoma student, Nicks Benedict, has been ruled a suicide according to a medical examiner's report released Wednesday. The sixteen year old who was transgender and used he and they pronouns, let's talk about that. According to friends and family, died February eighth, a day after a fight at Eswazo High School. His name has become a rallying cry among LGBTQ activists who argue that an onslaught of legislation targeting the community has made schools less safe for queer and transgender students like Next. Next had reportedly told his mother that he faced bullying at school over his gender identity and body camera footage released last month by police from the hours after the school fight shows Nex lying in a hospital bed. In the video, he tells a police officer how three students jumped him after he threw water on them because they were bullying him and his friend for their way they dress for the way they dress. The Osoaso Police Department released preliminary information from an autopsy report on February twenty first. They said Cho's next death was not the result of trauma. Days later, a spokesperson for the department clarified that the fight had not been ruled out as having contributed to or caused the death. The medical examiner's report listed a probable cause of death as combined toxicity from two drugs, one of which is available over the counter and the other by prescription. So with that said, based upon early reports, what I'm gathering is that next Benedict transgender student with, with he and they pronouns had been bullied. And I guess the bullying had gotten to a point where he couldn't, you know, handle it anymore. He threw water on the students. They then assaulted him. And, I did I do recall watching the video of him being in the hospital, appeared to be very coherent speaking and laughing and joking with a police officer. But then just a few short days later, Nex is now deceased and kills himself, due to to over overdose of medications. Well, I think a couple things. The only reason why we're hearing about it is because it involves the transgender headline. Right. Unfortunately, suicide in in especially in high school is a problem. Sure. And it's not unique to just k twelve schools. This is the leading reason or cause for death, and I think what is it eighteen to twenty four year olds, something like that. Yeah. So much so that we're seeing, you know, a lot of the collegiate university level, building buildings, rolling out programs, telehealth programs available for free to all students, and the ones that are really proactive are doing that. Because they they see that being as the number one cause of death, the suicide. They need to do something about it. So the so the universities that are really in tune with their students are really stepping up in a big way. They obviously have different pockets than the k twelve side does. It it it's unfortunate that that this happened. Right? It's unfortunate that bullying leads to suicide. I think it's it's more unfortunate that these incidents happen every day United States. And we don't hear about it. And we won't hear about it. Right. And it takes somebody in the media having to label it transgender for it to actually carry any weight. What about all of those other deaths that were caused by suicide from bullying that didn't have transgender tied to it. Which that we need to numbers. Yeah. We need to get our numbers. So while transgender is definitely a topic here, I think there's also, you know, just the fact that this happens every day in bullying, and and we don't hear about it at all. And I think that that's that's kind of the rub that I have is, you know, that is is unfortunate and as tragic as this event is that this child lost their life, you know, felt like they're they had no other out but to take their own life due to, you know, the onslaught of bullying, social pressures, you name it. I mean, you know, being in that LGBTQ community, there's a lot of social pressures and stress that comes with that. Right? Well, I mean, let's talk about it, Jerome. I mean, middle school and high school is rough. Anyway. Anyway. Even if you're heterosexual It doesn't matter where you are. If you're, you know, a sports athlete, if you're, an academic athlete, if you're just going to school, I mean, there's entire movies around it. Mean Girls. I mean, this this is true. Right? Like, I mean, it it is a it is a time of of of that point in the adolescent life where they kinda have to figure out who they are and what kind of person they're gonna ultimately grow up to be. Right? Mean Girls was a little bit little bit after my vintage and your vintage of being in high school. It came out afterwards. My kids watched it. They, you know, my wife, you know, watched it, whatnot. But the first one I remember of really, you know first movie I can remember that kind of focused on the the social pressures of high school was, well it was Karate Kid was one. Daniel LaRusso moves in to you know was it Redondo? Not Redondo. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere in California. Yeah. Somewhere in California trying to fit in, you know, social pressures whatnot. But then the other one that really sticks out to me was Can't Buy Me Love. I thought you were gonna go with dazed and confused. Well, no. Not dazed and confused. But but can't buy me love. Right? Where kids kind of a nerd. He's social pressure, whatnot, he's, you know, trying to win the girl over whatnot, ends up working out for him. But but we all know that those are those are fairy tale endings in movies that doesn't always end up that way. Right? And so, you know, what I think is one of the biggest crises in America is the mental health component or mental health crisis that we're seeing at all levels and not not just amongst our kids but amongst our adult population. And so you know you touched on one thing that I wanted to talk about. I don't even know if our viewers know about this but you know you went to a conference here last month about the same time that this happened in Oklahoma to Texas A and M, and they have really focused on this. Can you tell us about their program? Yeah. I'm I was blown away, to be honest with you. It, you know, I feel like sometimes the stuff that we talk about, some people say might be edgy or controversial. But I think that, you know, time and time again, we've proven that that we're talking about things that the rest of the world just haven't caught up to. I mean, if you go back to when you first stepped into Oh, man. To k twelve. Right? I mean, you you were in the New York Times over things that schools are doing every day today. Now. Yeah. Now. That back then, they were like, this guy's crazy. And so I feel like we've We're just doing us, and we're just kinda kinda out in front. Right? And so when we talk about mental health and we talk about the needs and the resources and how broken the the process is today and how, you know, some of the stuff that that is the process of just going through identifying how to go through the process for health, it's archaic. Oh, yeah. Right? I mean, this stuff hasn't evolved, you know, well at all. And I mean, I think it's one of the things that we, you know, we have our own passion project and we're dedicating our own resources to because we see this as such a need. So when I go somewhere and somebody has taken drastic steps, huge step, really stepped out there, I I was I was in awe. Right? I mean, I was I was I was truly shocked. Did not expect it. But so Texas A and M University has rolled out, telehealth, to every single solitary student within the system. Free of charge. Hundred and fifty four thousand. Every so, you know, Corpus Christi A and M, Prairie View, I I mean, you you name it. Every single solitary thing in the Texas A and M system, those students twenty four hours a day have access to mental health help lives For free. For free. Right? Yeah. Touch of a button. Right? And you you can't possibly think of a better way to spend money than potentially preventing one of these suicides. I mean, if if they save one life, ten lives, I mean, the money is well spent. Right? And that's that's what it's about. It's about preparing our young people to go out in the world and be productive members of society. So they've done that. They also are in the process of finishing up a huge massive building that is going to be staffed on main campus, and it's in College Station, that's going to be staffed with mental health professionals that they can just walk in and be seen. And All free. All free. Yeah. That's part of their tuition in there. And it's not like they raised the tuition. They they realized that this was a this was a a need and they're they're taking the the steps. They are really putting their money where they're going. What do you think is preventing the k twelve space from doing the same thing? Well, I'm gonna tell you, unregulated market. One thing that we're seeing, like, right now today, is the k twelve market got used to COVID, Mike. Oh, yeah. And so these past several years, they've gotten accustomed to that money, and it's that faucet's turned off. Right? And so the buzz right now that we're consistently seeing across k twelve is we have a one point eight million dollar Deficit. Deficit next year. Yeah. We have a ten point twelve million dollar shortfall next year, And I'm watching all of these districts trying to figure out how do I provide the services I need, how do I staff appropriately, and at the same time, I am losing all this money. Yeah. And I'm telling you right now, this summer, there's gonna be a lot of work being done behind the scenes trying to figure out how to hire staff, when they're paying more for staff than they've ever paid before. Right? It's highly competitive because they're short on staff. You have other teachers who are tired of it of doing billing with things and administrators who are exiting. So now you have less of a pool to pull from. And, and and then you turn around and they're they're short a million, two million, ten million dollars. How do they come up with that? I don't know how they're gonna navigate it. No, they don't. And I think that that's at some point what we're gonna have to understand is that or what our politicians at the both the state or local state and federal level are gonna have to understand is that if we want to create a safe climate in our k-twelve campuses, our first priority should not be police response. It should be it should be mental health resources. Well, and it it's it's that same thing that we talk about all the time about preventative. Right, versus being proactive versus reactive. And historically, everything in security, specifically, React twelve, has been reactive based. Well, and and let's we're gonna come back to that, but let's let's go back to this next Benedict thing. Right? So you know, let's talk about, let's talk about, this this evolution that we're seeing in American society of normalizing, you know, the transgender movement. Right? You're one hundred percent right. The reason why this caught national news attention compared to the probably hundreds within that same time period of kids who've killed themselves throughout the United States is because Next was transgender. Right. He, you know, had he they pronouns. It'd be really interesting to have one of the statisticians that we know right for that. Yeah. Yeah I'd like to talk to to David Reedman, see if that's something that he can work on. Because you know what about the other kids? What about the other hundreds of kids that killed themselves this year already due to bullying or you know whatever it was, right? You know, we have to understand as a society that though our our our you know, media is extremely important for us to rely to to relay information to us accurately, we also need to understand that there's a certain piece of manipulation that's involved with that and I'm not a conspiracy theorist but you know this is not drawing attention to really suicide in general, this is drawing attention to transgender issues, which is a hot button topic at the national level and that's unfair to all the families who've lost a child or a loved one due to suicide for whatever reason that's not transgender. Right. You know for us to to prioritize this because it's you know a transgender child is just not fair. I don't think that's right. You know? And and shame on the media for doing that. It furthers the divide. Right? I mean, that's ultimately what this is. Right? The more that you put this out there, the more that you push push this, these stories. Right? It just continues to do that. So, I mean, this was in Oklahoma. Right? It it carried nationally. Right? It wasn't like it was just picked up on the national. It was national. They ran with it, and they they ran across the board with it. And and it it's it's not right by any means. But until we start talking about what the real underlying problem was, which was bullying. Right? And then turning around and having a process. You know, the the other thing, I was just in a in a rural rural South Texas, and, we we showed up to do to a presentation. And, it was it was with their security committee, and they had it formed, you know, they had taken the Texas School Safety Center. Texas School guidance or TEA guidance of how to create your committee and all the different people that you have to have. You have to have a student, you have to have a teacher, you have to have all sorts of stuff. The one thing that was really interesting is they they had they checked all the boxes and then some. And then when it came to law enforcement, they had, everything from emergency management, they had border patrol, So they had no federal agents there. They had county. They had marshals. They had a big it was a a significant showing. Right? And they had been involved in this process all the way through. I was blown away. These these people were trying to do everything right. They really were. And they were tasked with this list of things that TEA had dropped on them. The Texas School Safety had dropped on our minimum requirements at all. Do these things just don't we're not gonna tell you exactly how to do them. It's subjective. A hundred percent. And and so I'm in a room full of people who have never done this before. Not not not one of them have ever gone through this process on how to do these things. I mean, we have law enforcement there that that that knew how to respond to an emergency. Right. But they don't necessarily plan safety procedures, security procedures in the event of a chemical spill as it relates to a k twelve environment. That's not what their specialty is. We had emergency management there that knew NIMS inside and out, and they could talk about that. But as far as planning what you're gonna do within the four walls of the school, that wasn't their expertise. So there wasn't a single person in the room that that would on this committee that they had that had the expertise to take it from point a to point b. And there were so many things that they had to do in this checklist, and it was literally, like, shrugging. Like, I don't know. Right? Cybersecurity. Well, I've looked at, you know, videos from this one and this one and this one. I've talked to my ESC, and they recommended these five. And I talked to this district over here and this is what they're using and and so I think I kinda like these. Right? And it it's, and so anonymous reporting was one of the things that they were supposed to set up, right? And so this is where I'm, I'm, I'm coming back around. They didn't know how to do it. Yeah. Right? And they're They don't know who needs to get what, why. Right? How it needs to be distributed. Set up a team? Okay. Well, who needs to be on my team? Well, what qualifies them to be on a team? When does that person join the team based on the situation? And when do I get input from them versus, oh, well, this is now confidential. This is law enforcement or this is health related. This party can no longer be involved. What's the process? They had very little guidance. And they are sitting here, like, literally reading the instructions to, like, an IKEA assembly project going, okay. It shows this and then it jumps to here. How do I get from here to there? Yeah. It it it they might as well have done all pictures because there's no Well the problem is there's no guidance, there's no standard on who's qualified to be a safety and security school director or whatever right? You know it's like it's like the Texas School Safety Center, right? You could say I'm being critical, whatever. They're a good resource, They're a resource. Right? Twenty plus million dollars in in funding a year, and they push out guidelines and best practices. And, you know, here's your EOP. This is what an EOP looks like. And they give it to them as a template and then, hey, fill that out. Well, we need to know why. Right? Why do I need to do this step? What's next in the step? That person needs to have an intimate knowledge of emergency operations and planning. You can't take an a lifelong educator, give them a template, and say fill this out. It's like reading a foreign language. They don't know it. Right? Well, and I think what you're seeing now and I would also love to know the stats on this, but I think you're seeing a bunch of the administrators who are exiting. Oh, yeah. Okay. And and it's because we continue to pile more and more and more and more responsibility. Well, we're no longer really teaching kids. Well, yeah. But the administrator is no longer a resource for the teachers because they now have all these Yeah. All these checked boxes. Right? They are having to do with these forms and do this on this so many days. I tell you. And that. I feel bad for for teachers and administrators now. I mean, the the state just keeps you know, and a lot of it you know and listen we can get into other other political conversations about you know voucher programs versus public school whatnot, but it almost appears that to me from a perspective of you know or my perception is that they're just heaping more crap on top of these administrators so that, you know, there's a mass exodus. Few seconds though. What's that? Plan change thing. Okay. So if you if we take a take a survey right now, let's just use Houston market as an example. In Houston, Texas, most of the private schools here already have a waiting list. Oh yeah they're gonna have a bigger waiting list. So now you come back over and you you make available was it four thousand dollars or roughly I don't know what the voucher is. There's a decent voucher. I would say whatever whatever the number is. Okay. If that private school was not an option for you today based on whatever the funding is because it doesn't work for you. Right? The reality is is the voucher program will not change anything. And that's because all the private schools will do raise their rates. Exactly the amount of the voucher. That's right. Right. Raise their rates. Because the parents who are paying for private school today will see that as furthering what that school needs for resources. They get it to them and instead of offering some type of discount, they now can work on facilities and services and everything else for the students. Right? They already have a white waiting list. Why would they not raise their rates? Yeah. So I I honestly believe that that the voucher program is we're going through all this mess, right, and all of this turmoil and this fighting and and everything out there. And at the end of the day, if you truly look at it and go, okay. We now have let's say it's just let's just say it's ten thousand kids, Right? Just in the Houston area that decide they wanna go to private school right now. There isn't a spot for ten thousand kids in private school today. It it doesn't exist. Yeah. Right? Where where are they going to go? It doesn't matter what the amount of the voucher is. Yeah. There there's physically not the resources to go. So what are we accomplished? I think that, you know, I mean, me personally, I'm I'm outspoken. I know that, you know, a lot of individuals who are supporting this voucher program, I don't support it because I believe that it was it will absolutely, I think I think it will eventually harm public education. I think it's gonna harm public education. I think that, what we're gonna see is the true ugliness in American society when we allow people to choose what schools to go to based upon, you know, whatever their preference is, you're going to start seeing, a separation of classes. You're gonna start seeing a separation based upon race. Let's take this a step further. We just talked about these schools having millions and millions and millions Deficits. And deficits right now going into the twenty five, twenty six school years. They lose it. They lose ten percent of their twenty five. Right? What happens if you turn around and now we we take what money they do have and pull it back out of them? Them. Yeah. What happens then? You're talking about a true financial collapse. I think there's gonna have to be the the only way to resolve some of that once that happens is that a lot of these districts are gonna have to consolidate. They're gonna become bigger districts which are which are even more of a problem. I mean look at HISD right? Yep. You know just lost, you know, they were taken over by the state. They've got a new superintendent that came in, whole new board, you know, the state is being, you know, serving as a conservatorship. You know, even when you look at that district, right, not that any one of the other superintendents or board members or anything else through this turmoil. Let's take the last five years. It's been a revolving door. Right? And every time a superintendent got in there and got something going, they were out and the next one was in. Oh, yeah. It was over and over and over again. They were never there long enough to truly enact any change because they were already on such a string. It's too big. The the district itself is too big. I mean And the only the big districts that run like that, they actually run as smaller districts. Right? So you look at some of the districts that are, let's say, ninety schools. Right? If you really look at how they run, they run as two divisions. So, like, some of them, run as east and west. Mhmm. And they have the duplication of the positions across the board. Right. Straight up now. Because even they have realized it's too big. Because what HISD has I think what two hundred and eighty three campuses something like that. I I don't know how many exactly, but but I mean, you look at other other other districts across the nation, large districts like New York. We'll talk about that here in just a little while with the with the surge of migrants. Clark County, Nevada three hundred and something schools. Chicago. Chicago. Yeah. California has a couple of You know it could be done effectively but it has to be done the right way. You know and I don't think HISD you know having a single superintendent you know overseeing two eighty three campuses is the most effective way to do that. And so but that's just me, you know, talking with my limited knowledge. You know, people will say, oh, you don't know shit. You're you you you weren't in schools that that long, you know, but I know enough. I don't know. Right? You had to navigate the executive board and then you were you were on the board too. So Yeah. It was a school board board board. Definitely got to see it all all facets of it. It so, you know, getting getting back to where we started. Yeah. There's there's little to no guidance. Right? And so we have extremely tight budgets. And the reality is is that these schools need resources. You know, just like have told you when you came above, you know, your superintendent when you came in. I have this specialist, I have that specialist, I need a security specialist. Schools need a mental health specialist. Right? And they need to have those things. And and I I've always you know, it always surprises me to see when you meet with a school and you're going through an assessment and you're doing things and you start digging into it and then you make your recommendations and you're you need to have this, you need to have this mental health professional, you need to have this many people on your staff, you need to develop this program. And it's like, it it wasn't even on their radar. Like, it's like, in some cases, they're they're aware that they need it, but you're talking a different language to them when you when you do that. Because because, you know, listen, people can say what they want about about teachers, and, you know, I'm gonna defend them to the death. My wife's a teacher. You know, I know we've had we've had conversations. You know, there's this old saying that, you know, those that can't teach, you know, and that's. I didn't say that. I didn't say you said that. I was repeating what I had heard. That's not what I said. My wife's a teacher. She's been an educator for twenty five years almost. But what you're telling us is that you're scared of your wife. I am scared of my wife. I'm a five foot five foot of Italian woman. And she carries she carries a knife. Yeah. And she grew up on, you know, south side of Houston, Galveston County in Lamarck, Texas. So, yeah, it's you know, we're. Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. But what I'm getting at is I don't I don't think that that educators get the recognition that they deserve. I mean, you know, or compensation, you know, I, every time I go into these schools, I talk to these individuals, these administrators, and they're wearing fifteen hats, at least, you know, and what it reminded me of is going through the Secret Service training, when we were getting into our advanced training you know advanced site planning training. You know due to the training environment you we were having to do multiple jobs. You know, I was the site guy, then I was the lead, then I was the transportation guy, then I was, you know, you're wearing fifteen different hats and the state and the federal government just keeps heaping more responsibility on them, which is why we're seeing such a mass exodus of teachers in the United States. The difference between that service training and in the k twelve space, that was cross training so that you could fill in any gap Yeah. Anytime, anywhere. Anywhere, you you there was somebody there who knew the deal. Yeah. In this case, this the state is keeping on those administrators. There there isn't anybody There isn't anybody else. Yeah. They're wearing all those hats because there is nobody else. It's not like they're filling in. They just keep as duties assigned. Right? They just keep assigning duties and duties and duties. It's it's sad, you know, because like, you know, my wife's been teaching twenty five years and she absolutely loves her job. Loves it. She loves the people that she works with, especially now. Her principal's fantastic. You know the district that she's at, she loves it. But she's tired, you know, and she comes home and she talks about some of the new teachers that are just coming in from college, right, and how overwhelmed they are with all of the the stuff that they have to do that is that is not really relevant to actually educating kids. Right. It's more procedural, it's checking boxes, it's paperwork, that's irrelevant. You know, I I, you know, I have a I have a sophomore in college right now, and I've got one that's going to be a freshman in August. And, you know, even having their friends over, we have like intellectual conversations. And as smart as some of these kids are, I feel like we have just completely lost touch with teaching the basics. I mean, simple things like geography, right? History, civil rights movement, You know, some of these important things that that we need to know from a historical aspect of the United States, they don't know these things. I have a funny one and and she's gonna kill me for bringing it up, but, during COVID was, you know, from teaching at home type stuff. Yeah. That was when my daughter was going through time. And so time zones Oh, yeah. Are something she she never she never got the concept. Yeah. Right. So we've had to tell her, but it's been a lot of fun, you know. We we recently took a trip to BC and and, you know, couple time zones over. Right? And then seeing her try to process, you know, what k. Where are we at? What time zone is this? Yeah. All of the things. Right? And it's like, wait a minute. It says on my calendar this. What do you mean we have to be there at that time? You're like, it's it's the wrong thing. You didn't have this turned on. It's like, I don't understand. And so it's just it's just really funny that and so, you know, there's another thing of that which we haven't even seen yet is all those COVID kids Oh, yeah. Coming out. Right? Because there's a whole block. It doesn't matter where they were at where we kind of got through the year, but maybe not really touched all the subjects. I would like in about twenty years for someone to do a study and research. I'm sure somebody's probably already doing it, but the kids that were, let's say first grade or pre K to fourth grade during the time of COVID, where that group of kids, what what the statistics were of those kids that that were in that age group of being institutionalized? Because, you know, there's absolute data that states that if you can't read, you know, by the time you're in third grade, you have a higher risk of being institutionalized or working, you know, a minimum wage job. I would I would love to see those stats in twenty years. And I think I think what we're seeing also and I said this, if you go back and watch some of my interviews during COVID, I said that I felt like COVID was going to have a tremendous impact on the educational space, Not now, not or not during, you know, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, but it'll be twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, where those kids had lost all that instructional time, all of that interaction, social interaction with their their peers And I believe that we're going to have a mental health crisis, which I believe is what we're seeing right now. We absolutely have a mental health crisis. I think we have an mental health crisis now. I think it's going to be exponential. It's going to be exponential in the next two to three years. And so, you know, I always get asked, as a as a security advisor consultant, we could talk about experts. That term gets gets thrown around a lot. But, I don't consider myself an expert. I consider myself a person who's well rounded. Right? I know a lot about some things and are and a lot of things. Things between people who claim that they are an expert, or have been assigned the title by somebody and they've run with it versus people who've actually done it. Practitioners. I was, laughing and it's it's it's hard to convey to people and it's it's it may come off cocky or conceded in some way, but it's not meant to be. But I was doing this presentation. There was another company there, from a manufacturer, and they had a sales rep, and they had somebody from executive leadership there. And they had this company that was going to install the system. And, collectively, I had three, arguably four times the experience, me personally, than the whole team. Combined. Right. And and so it's one of those things that you you literally wanna go back in there and be like, yeah, this is, you know, I I I've seen a thing or two because we've done a thing or two. Right? Like Is this State Farm? Yeah. I know. But, like, I mean, seriously, it's like why why choose us over them is that, you know, they they literally just haven't been doing it. And so that's that's the difference between somebody who, let's say, you know, was a security officer or personal protection officer or let's say an ex cop or a SWAT team guy. Yeah. They're never going to be able to do things like you do because of all the things that you just said. You were trained in all of these things from what you did for a living to protect somebody within an organization that just focuses on protecting people. And and they're just not going to do it. You know, if you look at, it's a totally different methodology and mindset from SWATs and a police officer truly being reactionary, Right? And the service being proactive. Right. I'm trying to identify what threat is real, and I'm trying to prevent it before it becomes a threat. Yeah. Which is why we've seen the service take the lead in behavioral threat. Right? And it's because it's different. How come no other law enforcement agency? Why hasn't LAPD SWAT come forward as the nation's leader in behavioral threat management? Because that's not what they do. So when you take a guy off the SWAT team and you put him into a position of something where we're doing consulting with you or something like that, it's totally different.