A Look Inside the Heart-Wrenching Baby Grace Investigation

Welcome to the secured podcast. I'm your host Mike Matrenga. We're coming to you today from the ASAP Security Studio here in Houston, Texas. Today, we have a special guest, longtime friend of mine. Within the law enforcement community and personal friend as well, Mike Berry. How are you, sir? I'm doing well. Thank you. Good. Good. Good, man. Good to see you. Good to see you. Happy to be here. Yes, sir. Today, we're gonna talk about a lot of different things. We wanna talk about You know, I've known you for a very long time. You've known my parents even longer. You know, I've always, you know, looked up to you as a law enforcement officer and the the work that you've done and how you've done the particular type of work, that you've done. You know, a lot of the, today's society would I wouldn't necessarily have to say frown upon old school police tactics, but You know, I I think there's a certain level of old and new in today's society that we need in law enforcement. And, So, you know, could you just introduce yourself and talk about your your history and your your career and all your accomplishments and some of the things that you've done, family, whatever you wanna talk about. Just show us a little bit about yourself. I started in nineteen seventy five as a, officer. But let me back up for just a minute. My dad, basically saved me from I grew up in the sixties and seventies. So I think you can understand what I was doing probably at that time. Right. And I had pretty much hit rock bottom. My dad came home, and he said, how would you like to go to the academy? Police Academy. And I said, yeah, that'd be pretty cool. You know, I rode with my dad a couple times. He worked in a small agency. And, I never thought about being a cop. My dream was to be a CIA age, and that's why I signed up for the Marine Corps Yeah. To be in the military, but I couldn't go because I had a bad knee. But anyways, he saved me. And he said, look, when I said yes, he said, you start Monday. We're gonna cut that shit off your head tomorrow because I had long hair. Yeah. So I started the academy. At the time, You could be nineteen years of age. Mhmm. And attended academy. You could be a police officer at nineteen. So I couldn't buy a gun or ammunition. I could buy alcohol and I could be a cop. So my dad saved me on that. So I applied for Houston after graduating from the academy, I applied with Houston and a bunch of other agencies, even as far as Dallas. The sheriff's office came to visit me. Calvus County. Yes. Right. And, it was old John Gardner, and I had already submitted my application, and he said, Hey, are you still interested in the position? I said, yes, sir. I am. He said, well, J. B. Klein at the time was the sheriff, wants you to come down for an interview. So I did. And eventually, I got hired on. And of course, and with the sheriff's office, the majority or at least back then, you had to go through the jail, work the jail. And when an opening came for patrol, if that's what you wanted or another thing, then you could put in for it. I worked the jail for three months, and then an opening came up in ID. So I went there, and I was there for about three or four months. And was an opening patrol, and I told the captain or the lieutenant at that time, n I d. I said, you know, I'd like to be a patrol officer or go go out in the field. So it was granted and I wound up in the field and I worked, the Highway six District. And I did that. And you were nineteen twenty at this time? Nineteen twenty. Yeah. Nineteen. Oh, nineteen years old? Yeah. I was still nineteen. Okay. Had just turned nineteen. Yeah. So I I, you know, I was on patrol for a while. And, almost five years later, the city of Santa Fe formed as a city municipality being incorporated At that time, there was a transition going on. J. B. Klein was retiring. Joe Max Taylor was coming in as sheriff. I loved Joe Max. I had no problem with J. B. Cline either, but a couple of us, knew some things about Some people. Yeah. Okay. In the agency. Yeah. Working midnights, you see and hear a lot. Yeah. So anyways, myself and one other guy, had the cojones to go ahead and meet with Joe Max Taylor at the time who was running for sheriff. And we told him what we knew. And he offered us, both of us a different position from where we were. The other gentleman that was there, was promoted to sergeant the next day. And he offered me a position, but I declined because I was already in the process of leaving and going to Santa Fe. Santa Fe the city of Santa Fe. Yes. The newly formed municipality. Yes. And I because I was working that district, so I knew it. Right. And I guess it was god's grace that put me there, really. So then he said I understand. No problem. You know, blah blah blah. I went to work for Santa Fe. Started off as a patrolman then immediately because we're brand new. I made patrol sergeant. A year later, there was a grant to have an investigator Mhmm. For this, the small agency. So I was doing that. And then a year later, I wound up being assigned to the Galveston County organized crime unit. Which back in those days was the, basically the investigative unit for the sheriff's office, but it was, an accumulation of every a lot of people from other agencies passports type thing. So I did that from, man, off and on from eighty one to eighty nine. Yeah. Eighty eight. And in eighty eight, I got a phone call from my police chief at the time, Brian Lam. He said I'm leaving. I'm resigning. And, you know, you're the next in charge. And I want you to get the anyways. So I wound up being a police chief I got the position. And, I was police chief until ninety five. Okay. And in ninety five, I had just graduated from the FBI National Academy. Mhmm. And, I had come back to my agency Then I get a phone call from Joe Max. Are you still interested in coming back down here? And I said, yes, sir. I am, because I did not like admin I did not like being a police chief. I didn't. I like to be out in the field and work. I went down, you know, he he sent Jean Leonard up to talk to me. It was agreed. I accepted the position. I retired as police chief and went back to work for the county in ninety five. And I stayed there up until the time that I retired in eighteen. I have been blessed and I realized I've been blessed in my career for the things that I was able to do, I really enjoy investigations I was hired by the sheriff's. At that time, the only position was open was a, MHMR deputy, mental health, mental retardation. And, so I went into that position for about four months, but at the same time, they alternated me through CID upstairs. So I was working with them and also MHMR. And eventually, after about six months, I wound up going up to CID full time and stayed there. So from let's say ninety six until when I retired, I was in CID. And during that tenure or those years, we were all investigators You know, you worked all kinds of crime, but myself and Tommy Hansen, who was the lieutenant. Yeah. He and I really work close together. And we wound up working the majority of the homicides. So in two thousand and seven. Yes. Tommy and I are working a very brutal homicide of a female over on crystal Beach. The case is still pending. Meaning, it's a cold case now, but Tommy's pretty much got it wrapped up. Because he's still working colocation. But Is Tommy still employed there? He's a reserve with the sheriff's office. But he's assigned to the Bureau. Okay. The regional office. And then, he's working coal case right now and has been since you retired. Gotcha. So Tommy and I were working this case, and we wound up We were over in lumberton. Shillsby lumberton area. And I happen to be the detective on call that week. And this is late at night. We're sitting in a McDonald's having coffee with the police chief. And another officer, and Tommy and I taking a break. We've been doing surveillance on this particular person. Anyways, the phone rings, And I answer it. It's dispatch, and they're telling me, we have a homicide or we have discovered there's been a discovery of a body, and it looks like it's a child. It's okay. So I told Tommy, and we took off. Riley Anne Soyers is the child's name. Yes. But she shortly after this, the case was named Baby Grace, because we had no identity. Right. So Tommy and I left Schillsby in lumberton, and we made it back. That's almost a two hour drive. And we made it back in less than an hour. Wow. Yeah. We were flying. We got to the base of the causeway. The Marine Division was bringing the body in its container to where we were so they can offload it and they can take it to the morgue. So that's what happened. I did need to confirm just for myself, when they got there, just opened the container. Let me see. Let's backtrack real quick and hate to stop you. And sure because you're flowing. But let's talk about first how the, how the the child was discovered. Mhmm. And then let's talk about your work is also being in investigations also as an emergency. I'm I'm sorry, as the, IME medical examiner. Okay. So let's and then let's get back to opening up. So a fisherman was out there in the body of water, and he came up to this little island. Maybe a thousand foot long. And he saw this container, and it was, a rubber rubber, what do they call them, rubberware or whatever, contain rubber mate container. And it was sitting up on the shoreline. So he got out. Now, this is I don't know. I'm not actually sure what time the body was found. Right? I wanna say around, nine or ten at night. So he goes up and he's thinking, man, he had a gold mine, you know, all kinds of equipment and stuff. He opens it up and he sees a trash bag. Yeah. Black trash bag. And he kinda moved around a little bit. He could see a child's shoe. So that's when he backed off, called nine one one. Deputy and patrol sergeant showed up. They had to get out there by boat. He contacted the Marine Division. That's how all that took place. Yeah. We opened a container down there at the bottom of the causeway. I think it's called Smithies Bay Camp. Yes. On the Galveston side. That's where they pulled up. And I asked Randy and he populated. I looked in there, and I saw obviously that it was a child. Okay, they're gonna take the body to the morgue. Well, by this time, it's five thirty six o'clock in the morning. I knew that they weren't gonna get there until eight at the ME's office. So I go home showers, get ready, and I go, to the morgue. To witness the autopsy. Out of all the death cases that I've ever worked, That's the only one that I did not sit in and watch the autopsy. This child was decomposed badly. They they laid her on the table, and, they laid out her clothes on a sheet. Doctor. Pestelnik, was the ME at that time chief medical examiner. So I go out into the office area to sit. I There was something about this. And I'm I'm telling you, I've probably done a thousand bodies, if not more. As a medical examiner. Right. And also working as a detective on homicide. There was something about this case that I just I couldn't witness it. I don't know why. I really can't answer that. So anyways, the cause of death was determined preliminary until toxicology and all that come back. So we had no identity still. What was the cause of death, preliminary, blunt force trauma, blunt force trauma to the head? Yes. Yeah. They they did a full autopsy and, yes, they she had actually four cracks in her head. And how old was this child? Two. She was two, two. Yes. K. So then at that point, we need to identify. We need to identify who this child is. And of course, by doing that, then the first thing we're gonna do is we're you're gonna go after or at least Let me rephrase that. You're going to look into the parents. They're the closest ones to the child, but we don't know who they are. We don't know. Right. So at this point, you know, you don't know who you've got the the body or the remains of a two year old child who you've preliminarily identified as having blunt force trauma to the head. The process in which you identify that child, is that is that you know, DNA swabs and samples. How did y'all identify the child in order to identify the parents? Well, then, to answer that question, that goes into November. Okay? This was in October. September October, I think. September, October. Yeah. As when she was discovered when she was discovered. Correct. But she was murdered in July. Yes. And we found that out from the investigation. So her body remained in that container in the bay of Galveston. No. They kept the they kept the baby in their garage. For how many months? Almost two. Two months? Yes. Almost two. And it got to the point where it was stinking so bad they had to do something. They made trouble when I'm saying they, it would, been the biological mother and the stepfather. That's who it was. Mhmm. And there's no problem by discussing it because all the appeals are over. Yeah. So we're good. Yeah. So jumping forward a little bit, we were working Tommy and I were working really hard on information we got from two fishermen that saw these people pull up at a boat launch in, hitchcock. Mhmm. At the end of second Street? Yes. You know where I'm talking about. That's l d o, Mike Zeller, you know. Mike Zeller's bait camp. That's right. Yeah. Well, that's where it was. I grew up, but not even a quarter, half a mile from there. That's true. I know exactly where it's at. I've launched my boat there. Times. And I don't think people just to put this into perspective, at the end of second street in hitchcock, Texas, where this child's body was was put into the water. It's a very long canal. What do you how many miles do you think? Before it takes about twenty minutes just to get out to the channel in a boat in a boat. Yeah. And so that that child's body was placed in the water there, and it traveled my current to the bay. Well, not from there. No. No. Okay. That's what I want. That's what I wanna tell you. We got this lead, buddy, and it was hot. Two fishermen sitting on right next to the launch. Yeah. Fishing. And they see this, older model, what they call I guess the Yukon or It was an older model type. Backed in towing a boat and started launching. And it was a man and a woman. K. And those guys, you know, they're just fishing. They're kinda watching them launch the boat. Well, it was an open boat, obviously, and both fishermen noticed this blue container that was at the front of the boat. In fact, they actually took it out of the truck and put it in the boat. And they watched them back out and then they took off towards the channel. Okay. And about forty five minutes later, they come back. They come back in the woman that was in the boat according to the two witness is sobbing. I mean, just like it hysterically sobbing. See, these are the details that I don't think the public knows about. Right. Right. Right. Okay. So this looked really promise and they don't have the rubber made container when they return. Right? No. That's right. That's right. Okay. It's gone. So okay. But, alright, did you happen to notice the license plate or visit? So we even contacted, there was a hip hypnotist from ATF. Yeah. And he came down and he, interviewed these two fishermen. And there was no doubt that they saw what happened. They're not lying and everything was good. So Tommy and I were really pushing this or really looking into this. But we still So basically, we have a description of a vehicle and a boat where we have no idea where they're from. So I'm thinking, let's check the hitchcock area and drive us wherever we can. Split up. Let's get a couple of so we're doing this for a long time. And meanwhile, we're still gathering information, about the case, you know. Because We also called in, Autacrom's people and several other, detectives because we made the hotline. For the calls and the tips, and they were coming in. At this point, y'all had identified her as baby grace. Yes. In the media. Yes. Right? Because you had not identified who the child was, so you you labeled her baby grace. Why did you label why did y'all say baby grace? What was the what was the premise behind that? I didn't. And I'm I can't remember her first name, but miss Corogus, she is in charge of all the, court administrators. Sheh, the women that run the court rooms or for the judges. She came up with the name. Baby Grace. Okay. And Ray Tullamando, who was at that time the major and the, public information officer Just went with it and called her baby grace and there's photographs to video of him holding up the shoe We we tracked during this time, we tracked down where the shoe came from, Walmart, because it was a a light up shoe. Correct? Yes. Yes. And back in those days, even my kids were that same age, that's why it resonated with me so much because I had daughters that that were that age. Right? And they wore those same shoes. Yeah. Whatever everybody could relate to that, you know. And I think that that was, you know, when we talk about investigative measures in the well thought out and the experience of some of these these investigators, you know, when everybody thinks about high level investigations, people think about but let me tell you. The men like Mike Berry and Rayu Lamando and, you know, Tommy Hansen, these guys are true professionals. There's a reason why that shoe was pushed out on the media with the name baby Grace is because the majority of us who even myself at that time had a child or children that were that age, we could relate to that. It became heartfelt. We all took invested interest Yes. And trying to figure out who this this unfortunate child was. Right? So, you know, I don't know if that was actually planned to feed on the emotions of the public? No. It wasn't. It might not have been planned, but, well, let me tell you. It it hit. It hit. Yeah. It was extremely effective. And so, you know, from an investigative standpoint and from, you know, the standpoint of seeking information from the public, these are things that have to be considered when you're pushing out information has to resonate with the with the general populace of the of the community that surround you. Right? I remember seeing that shoe. And that's why I remembered it was that light up shoe from Walmart. Our kids had the same ones. So not to not to distract you, So you got the a t f involved. They came out. They interviewed the two fishermen. You guys have determined that you know, they're telling you guys the truth, mother sobbing, rubbermaid container that they had witnessed going into the boat and under the water with them did not come back with them. I'm sure at this time, you guys had, you know, already had DNA samples of the child. Had she been identified at that point? Y'all just hadn't pushed it out yet? She had not been identified. Okay. In fact, What broke the case was the grandmother. Okay. So during this time, we're working it. We're focusing. Tommy and I are focusing on this one lead, and that it's promising. In fact, you know, we you attend funerals. You attend, as a detective funerals, whatever. Well, there was a vigil. And the vigil was conducted down at another bait camp underneath the underneath the Santa Fe overpass. Yes. There's a Smithies. I think it's called Smithies Santa Fe overpass. The san Which one's saying if it or is it the terminal overpass? Right. The the overpass right before the cause wave. Yeah. That's, is that the terminal overpass? It's Mid's Baycamp. Okay. Yeah. Seventy's Baycamp. Mhmm. So that's where the visual was held, and, and, you know, we had about ten detectives out there. And, were to watch and and something keyed with me on a particular person. She was just extremely emotional. We had a description of this lady and this man that was in the boat. Yeah. But something just kept And then, you know, I got with one of the guys, and I said, look, you know, watch this person over here, keep eyes on it. Well, then when the thing was Gonna break. We were taking also a monument, if you will, to play. It was a cross. Mhmm. And we were placing it out on the, island where she was found. Dear Island. Yes. So we go do that and come back. Well, they lost these people. Okay. In the crowd, they lost. They didn't know which one which where they went because there was probably sixty, eighty people there. And you said what brought detention to her was she seemed ex more distraught than anybody else? Yes. Okay. Anybody else? So I wanted to focus on her. That that keyed me, but unfortunately, they lost her in the crowd. And next thing you know, people are driving off and it's over with. So we go out and do that and we come back. So then let's jump forward. And this is Thanksgiving of two thousand and seven. And we've been working hard on this case for two months, three months. The captain at the time decided y'all go home early. This is the day before Thanksgiving. Uh-huh. Y'all go home early. Y'all been working hard this any other. Well, it was four o'clock. So he gave us an hour. But anyways, so gracious. Yeah. How gracious. So, you know, which Thanksgiving, bubba butt, Do the thing. Friday morning, I get a phone call from Tommy Hansen. He says, hey, captain called. They got this lady coming in Now I don't know anything about what has taken place previously except what I know Tommy and I had done and what other investigators had gotten. You know, I'm the case agent, so they're telling me everything But I didn't know about this particular thing. The day after Thanksgiving, I got a phone call from Tommy, and he says, Hey, look, gap called. He wants us to come in the office. There's a woman coming down that they're gonna do a buple swab on her. And, he wants us to interview her. And I'm thinking, what the, you know, You can. That's okay. Yeah. Okay. What the fuck, man? I mean, you know, I don't know anything about this thing. He said quit bitching and just come on. So we gotta go down there. And I mean, we're casual as normally we were a coat and tie. We go in casual, and this video or the footage of the interview of her, is on YouTube or whatever, but We get in there and they've got one of the crime scene investigators in there. The captain is there in his office. One or two other people. Oh, the da showed up and this lady and an attorney. So we go into let me double check. Sure. Was this woman that's being interviewed the same woman that you saw at the visual? No. Not the same woman. Not the same. No. No. No. Y'all never found out who that woman was. Never. Never did. Okay. Alright. I thought you were going there saying that this was potentially the mother that came back for the visual because we know in a lot of crimes that happened like this, the suspect usually comes back to the scene or attends a vigil. So that did not happen. No, sir. So just for the listeners, I wanna clarify, but that didn't happen. Okay. That is correct. Okay. So now you've got this lady. You've got the da in there. You've got, you know, an investigator. You got all these people that seem unusual to you to have all those people there? Well, at the at the beginning of this interview, there was only just a couple of people. Myself, Tommy, Captain was in his office. The crime scene guy. And there might have been one other person Uh-huh. In the CID office. Just kinda hanging out. Sure. This was on Friday after Thanksgiving. So they said the interviewer So, okay. So I don't know who this lady is. So Tommy's in there. I'm in there. Of course, the the the video. I mean, the, interview is recorded. They're doing the buccal swab. They get all their samples and then set in the other. Okay. They walk out. Alright. So during this time, we're kinda talking. She's talking to us. And she's going on with her story, this lady. And then she gets to the point where she says, talking about her husband and his family and she says, but his family doesn't know. And I said, know what? And she said that my daughter is Raleigh and sawyers. And this is exactly what that's exactly what I did, just like you. And I lean forward. I said, are you telling me that your daughter Riley Ann sawyer, his baby grace. And she said, yes. Tommy and I looked at each other. And the first thing we thought was, how could we be set up to do an interview on a capital murder case and not know any of the factors that brought her there in the first place. Well, so I was gonna backtrack How did she get there? This is what happened. Okay. Pressure was starting to come on them. And the reason why the pressure became on the mother and her, husband, the the stepfather. The grandmother Let me go back. In July, there was supposed to be a, another custody hearing or to increase child support or something. This is up in Cleveland, Ohio. Because the grandmother was from Cleveland. Right. She's from Cleveland. The mother. The the mother of of Riley They're all from Cleveland. Except the stepfathers from Texas. Yes, sir. Right. K? So there was a custody hearing in July. This is what was told to me, which I later found to be true, obviously. The grandmother was doing research because there was supposed to be a custody hearing, and the last time she had seen Riley was in July. And that was, not at a court hearing. Yeah. So there was a court hearing. And since that time, she hadn't seen heard Not a phone call. Nothing from the mother or, the child, of course. So she started doing some research on the computer. And she had some information something about Texas. And she was doing research. She looked up media, this that and the other, and she found this sketch drawing of which I failed to mention and I and I will at this point. HPD has or had now. One of the greatest artists in the country. In fact, the picture Well, the sailor after World War II bent down a Times Square and kissed a girl. She identified who that man was. He was from West East. Really? Yeah. So anyways, she's she was awesome. She came down the day of the autopsy, and She looked at the clothes, she looked at what was left of the body, and she created a sketch. That was unbelievable. So I had to jump back there to explain that, then I'm going back forward. So the mother, the grandmother's doing this research, and she happens to see this sketch. On the computer of this child that we're trying to identify. And she looks at it. She says, that's Riley. And at this point, she hadn't heard from her, right? From the mother or the child? No. That's correct. And this is when, like, September maybe? This would have been probably September, October, October? Yeah. Well, it might have been even later than that because I have no idea. Yeah. When the captain had gotten this information. Okay? Okay. So go ahead. Grandmother calls the captain. No. What the grandmother does is she sees that it's, they're living in Conroe. Okay? So she contacts a, constables office and they go out and do a welfare check. And they were she was confronted by the constable. Of course Riley's not there. So there's no evidence. Well, there was evidence, but So and he somehow documents or notifies or this I I really am not certain as to how this came She looked at that, and when I later interviewed her She said, I bought that outfit at Target. We had already identified the item coming from Target just like the shoe from Walmart. And, so anyways, we could, you know, we confirmed that or, or, she said these things. Somehow some word got to the captain And the next thing I know is I'm doing an interview. But what had happened was the heat was starting to come on. They were claiming that Ohio's CPS came to pick up Riley. Well, you know, as well as I do. That doesn't happen. It's gotta be the state that picks them up. Right. Or the state you're in. Well, that didn't happen. And a few other things, and their story was starting to unravel, and they started to get a little bit nervous. So she eventually wound up finding some particular attorney out of Alvin. I can't remember the gentleman's name. And she went over there, and she told him everything. And he said, we have two options. We have one. You can wait till the buccal swab comes. And they do that and they test or two, we can beg for mercy and go down there and tell them the truth. She opted for the second. And on that Friday, her and her attorney came down with a scheduled meeting to talk to the sheriff's office. So that's how we identified her, but You don't send an investigator in naked. Well, I was just about to ask you is is, you know, you being the investigative agent, you and Tommy having, you know, point and lead on this. Why why was it that you guys were not informed that all of these these inner workings were happening and that even an appointment had been set with an individual who was potentially coming in to discuss this Why why were you guys not informed or kept in the loop on that? I mean, being the investigative agents, where was the breakdown in communication? Where did that happen? It happened based on what I know from the captain to us. I mean, don't don't you think that that would have been important? I mean, being the captain, I think that the first two people that I would notify that we potentially have a suspect coming in with an attorney, that's, you know, alarm number one. They're coming in with an attorney. They must have something that could be potentially incriminating. Why would the captain not tell you that and then wait for the last minute and say, hey, come in. You got an interview. That makes no sense to me. Personally, And a few others, it was a power struggle. I know who did this. I know who did it. Yeah. But at the end of the day, that's the problem within law enforcement is is egos have to be set aside because at the end of the day, you've got a child who's been brutally murdered No one cares about how much control you have at that point. At the end of the day, at that point, we're all on the same level. Right? Titles and promotions should not matter. Right. You have a dead child who was brutally murdered withholding information just to prove that you're the one in control is absolute bullshit. You know, I don't care who it is. I don't know who it is. In fact, don't tell me who it is, but Whoever it was probably should have, you know, got, checked after that, but Yeah. It is what it is. Well, eventually, He was not rehired when the new sheriff took over. Okay. And that's the only answer I can give you as to why that happened. Yeah. This person just had a thing for power. Yeah. I had to guess. Well, so so she comes in y'all sit down. You talk to her. Essentially, like you said, already, she confirms that her daughter, Riley Ann sawyers, was the child that was found in you know, in the bay of Galveston, or at Galveston Bay on Deer Island by this fisherman. Can you tell us how that happened? Did she I know that there's some details out there already, but How did she lead into what happened? Did y'all prompt her or did she willingly come forward with that? She willingly came forward because like I said, I had no idea why she was there except to give a buccal swab. And these things like you just said are running through my head, and I'm I'm starting to boil a little bit during this time because I don't have answers. Yeah. And So while we're sitting there, it it took probably thirty minutes from the time we walked in the room to the time that she said Riley Ann Sayers as as baby Grace. It was about thirty thirty five minutes. That interview lasted another three hours. We took a break, and she had imp obviously, she had implicated her husband. Mhmm. She told us everything that her story, you know, her her faction story. I'll tell you a quick funny thing real quick. I so we broke after that, and that's when I came out. And by that time, when I came out of the interview on that time, there were a lot more people there. The chief deputy was there. I came out of that interview room and I said that mother fucker. Sent us in there fucking naked to do this fucking interview. That's what the chief said, Mike. She's got that. Just do your job. I'll take care of that. Okay. John Pruitt and I happen to just go into the bathroom. I had to go to the bathroom. So we get in there, both get in there and work. And I said that fucking bitch is just as guilty as he is and And all of a sudden, we are, you know, the toilet flushing. This is a Friday. It's closed. Okay. And I'm thinking Oh, shit. He and I looked at each other? Her attorney comes along now. Oh, god. And he said, I know you don't like my client, but You know, this was our options, and she chose this one. You know, bubba. He was really cool about it. He was a good man. So anyways, at that point, we're doing the interviews. We go into now we got there at like nine o'clock in the morning. Which this is very you know as well as I do the hours we work. Oh, yeah. So it was about, after we finished her interview, which was a total of about seven hours. It was a break and then we finished three or four more hours after that. She implicated her husband came out after the final interview And I said, we need to get eyes on her husband. We need to find out where he is and, you know. So the captain sent a team up to it wasn't Conrell's Spring Spring. Thank you very much. They go up there. He's not there. So they leave. They're going to the attorney's office in Alvin. Well, then somebody stayed back at the house and he pulled up. So they asked him, would you be willing to come in and talk to us? He did. His parents showed up too. So obviously, he knew that stuff was coming bad. Right. So his parents showed up also. I did not conduct that interview. Randy Burrows. And maybe Tommy was in on that interview. I was busy typing a search warrant for their house. Up in spring. So they do the interview with him. He doesn't really tell much. You know, he's does he know that she's kinda already given it up though at this point? No. I don't think No. Not at that time. I don't think he knew. So I'm typing a search warrant And then while they're doing that interview, which I think only lasted forty five minutes, then he started getting sick. Of course, you know, how people get or I I, you know, trying to prevent from getting rustic. They've gotta use the restroom. Something. Yeah. I I yeah. So he got sick. EMS had to come taken to the. So Yeah. It's called conscious. Yes. And then after he was released, he the the authority for charges to be filed were granted that night. And we were holding them we were charging him initially with tampering with physical evidence. Right. That's all we charged him with at that time until we could build some more. So a team and the crime scene people are crime scene people. Went up to spring and processed the house. And we found a lot of evidence that was brought out in the trial. Even notes that he wrote apologizing for what he did. He was asking for, you know, for accept his apology, but also on this notebook, there was a list of things that they were buying at Walmart, which we have the video tape. So it secured that, you know, shovel, the container, you know, all this other stuff, trash bags. The next morning after we finish that, we, Randy and I go up to Spring, Texas, where the house is, and we kind of viewed that scene itself. And then shortly after all this stuff was found, well then, okay. I told or I stated to one of the FBI agents that was We were all under the umbrella of the FBI. What are they? Of task force. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. I can't remember the name of it, buddy, and I'm sorry. But I was assigned there for about thirteen, fourteen years. Anyways, I told him, I said, dude, we need to get up to Cleveland. We need to go and talk to the family. So sure enough, we made arrangements that morning, catch a flight. So now we've been up over twenty four hours. We catch a flight. We go to Cleveland. We get there made arrangements with the Cleveland PD to help us, you know, with the, interviews So we get there and the family's sitting there, and it's the grandmother, the father of Riley. And one or two other people And I base are you, you know, are you this person? Well, I'm sorry to inform you, but Riley is past and, you know, we now have the identity of of who she is and blah blah blah. So we really didn't do a lot of we did do in a couple of days, some interviews there, a family. And then we came back home And by this time, we're able to charge. You know, in fact, we were able to charge, after I did the interview. So then they were charged with capital murder. And then of course, the trials came and both were convicted. She received life and he received life without parole. Let me ask you a question. Mhmm. When you did the interviews with the family in Ohio, Cleveland. He said you met with the buy the maternal grandmother who really kinda broke the case. Yes. And then you met with the the biological father of Riley Ann sawyers. What was his, explanation? Of had he gone to authorities seeking, you know, the location or whereabouts of his child? Was he concerned with his child? What was his role and what was his position? Or disposition at that point. He expressed his love and affection for Riley He talked to us about their relationship. He, the mother and her, or him But it was the grandmother. Yeah. That was really the spokesperson and pushing stuff. Nice woman. Great woman. Yeah. But he I kinda felt like, okay. Yeah. He he loved the baby, but yeah. You love the baby, but where where have you been? Yeah. Like, have you what attempts have you made to find your child? When's the I mean, what what type of father doesn't speak to their child for? Six, seven, eight months, or at least wanna know where the whereabouts of your child is, a a two year old child. Mean, we're not talking about an adult here. Right. You know? Right. We're talking about a two year old child who has left the state in which you reside I mean, you know, I guess I not everybody's like me. I would assume, you know, I'm I guess. I mean, I guess I it's just facts, but You know, I I kinda wanted to know where where he was in all of this, you know, and what his explanation for being absent was. I think what I do know is that the grandmother was the one that was really pushing and trying to find out. He he did say He, the father. You know, he wondered where Riley was, but, you know, my mom was doing this this that they they had no knowledge that they had moved that she had moved to Texas with this child? Not until she saw the sketch. Really? Yes. And and that's been confirmed from the mother. Yeah. She never told them. In fact, When she went to that hearing, she didn't have Riley with her. Mhmm. Riley was still down here. Yeah. She wasn't deceased at that point though. No. Yeah. No. Right. So, yeah. He, I think, just followed the lead of his mother. Yeah. That's what I think. You know, they were young. You know, they were seniors in high school. They were in high school. When they got pregnant. Oh, okay. And, she graduated. He graduated. You know, she was pregnant during that, and she had the baby. And she was even living with them for a while. Okay. And then they started having problems. Or an e. And she moved out to a house, that her family owned. Yeah. And she was living there. And then what happened was she met this guy on world of work, world of warcraft. World of warcraft. That's how she met him. And they talked quite a bit. And one time, she flew down to visiting, and came back, and then the next time she brought everything. Were they officially married her and him, the stepfather? I think so, bud. Where are they? I think so. So who? Now, wait a minute. Her stepfather, the stepfather? Yeah. Were you talking about the natural biological No. No. No. No. The stepfather. The stepfather. I think they were married. Yes. You know, I think it's, you know, I think it's important for everybody to understand that, you know, this is This is a traumatic, event that happened in our community in Galveston County. And it it made National News due to the complexity of the case and the brutality of the, suffering that this child had gone through. And so you know, we talk about this because, you know, there's certain aspects of society that, or there's people within our society that don't think that these particular types of things happen, and they happen on a daily basis to our kids in this particular case, the punishment in the abuse that this child faced was just completely unbearable. I mean, it was, you know, I can remember, at that time, I was two thousand seven, I was hot and heavy on the, you know, Obama campaign trail, you know, and I was, you know, when I was coming back, you know, to and from our travels, you know, I was following up with the case, trying to keep track, see if there's anything that we could do from our side to help you guys. You guys had already had it pretty much resolved by that time November of two thousand seven. But we just didn't We as a community, we didn't like to think that anybody within our community could abuse a child to that level and disregard their remains, you know, in a in a box. And, you know, I'm happy to say it wasn't our, wasn't anybody within our community. These people didn't live here, but not to say that terrible things don't happen even within Galveston County because they do. Yes. And, You know, it's you know, I wanted to bring you in today to talk about this one because I know that this one had a significant impact on you, and you've done so much other stuff. You know, within your your career. But, you know, the the things that I take away from this is, you know, investigative practices, that we really need to pay attention to. One, you know, the sketch. Right? Important. The sketch is what set it off. The grandmother recognized the child because HPD had a a phenomenal sketch artist that that really depicted who this child was. She even got the clothing right. The grandmother identified the clothing you know, the whether you knew it or not, but the, you know, the the shoe. Being displayed, tugged at the heartstrings Yes. Of most young adults. Yes. Because we all could relate to that. The name of baby grace. You know, it signifies innocence and you know, grace within our hearts that that people were supposed to have. And so, miss Coroga, who came up with that name that was brilliant. I don't know if that was intentional. Yeah. I don't know either. But it I it it I truly believe that that that god put the right people in the right place at the right time to discover who that child was. And so, you know, I don't think we need to get into unless you want to about the the horrific details of the abuse that this child had suffered because it came out and trial all that stuff's public information at this point. But essentially for the viewers who don't know anything about this case, this child was abused significantly, which caused her death over a period one day. One day. And so you want me to tell you briefly what hap what what basically happened is, and and I'll give you a little bit of history. The stepfather had worked other jobs. He also had worked at a, funeral home at one point. Mhmm. Which I found to be interesting, especially while we were working it or putting a case together because, you know, they bought bleach. They bought all these things at Walmart. They even poured bleach down Riley's throat because they gave CPR. You know, so He and and she also said that, they both watched a lot of forensic files. She was already deceased. Yes. This is during the yeah. This is post. Yes. Okay. He's from Texas. She's from up there. You know how we are down here? Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Yes, sir. No, sir. Yeah. Pilate courtesy. Manners. Well, he could not get over that the mother is not sure teaching this child to do that. And Riley also had a problem with taking, oral tylenol for children. She just didn't like the taste or whatever. On that day, he decided and he he never admitted it, but decided we're gonna stay I'm gonna stay home today and we're going to We're gonna break her of this. We're gonna break her of all these habits. So it started. At one point, they had her in the bathtub in a little bit of water. And they would hold her underground or hold her under the water to teach her to take Tylenol. And at one point, this comes from the mother. Riley was reaching up like this saying, just give it to him. I'll take it I'll take it. You know, please mommy. I don't know if they gave her any. And then the abuse throughout the day, a few other things belt whipping if you didn't do right. Chastise, and it Two times, he grabbed her and slung her across the room, and her head hit the the floor, tile floor. But it also happened again. Mhmm. And at that point right? In the head. Yeah. School fractures. And at the end, the mother said, this is when she kinda broke down, but she's trying to stand Riley up on her lap. And her legs were collapsing. And that's when they realized this is serious. We've done something. And the last the last words that, Riley's that Raleigh said was, I love you, mommy. And, Sorry. Oh, take your time. So that was with the last words that, Raleigh spoke. So they put her in the bathtub and they go to Walmart after they make this list. And they get all these things and they're She's deceased at this point? She's deceased. She naturally passed? Is that what she naturally passed? Yeah. Because of the blunt force trauma k. Bleed out. So they were going to bury her that night. In fact, I think it's a total of four times that they left with the container to go do something. And eventually that night, the night that they did dispose of her, they left their cell phones at home, They avoided anything to show of a toll. And they drove all the way down to the causeway. Why they picked that? I I cannot answer that with the she wouldn't have known about it. So it had to come from him. Now I'll stop there for a minute. Unfortunately Galveston Sheriff's Office has worked a number of homicides that have happened and other jurisdictions. They tend to come down and throw the bodies off the causeway. That's just it's they've been doing that for years. So what happened was they drove down and how he found this, I have no idea unless he's been down there before. Because remember I didn't interview him. Right. But you know, as well as I do, you come over that overpass where SMitty's Bay Camp is, and then you take the exit for tiki. Mhmm. You know? And you can go around. The fat boy's bait camp. Cat boys. I'm sorry. Yeah. We said Smithies early. Schmidt. Yeah. Well, Schmidties is on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. That boy. So they make that loop to get back up on the freeway, but you also have that road that goes to the old causeway, the railroad bridge. And, that's they parked there. He got out with the container and he walked out I don't know, three, four hundred yards, maybe at the most. And just drop it off in the water. So what so what happened with the fisherman in the container? Was that we never got an answer. We never identified who those people were. We never found them. The two fishermen were definitely telling the truth. Did they ever did you guys ever ask the mother? Or do you know if the stepfather was asked if that if they attempted to dispose of her body that time? I didn't ask for that. That seems very yeah. It does. It's suspicious. Yeah. It it, you know, it's but it it definitely does. And I'm gonna be honest with you, Mike. I don't know if I asked that question. Yeah. To be honest. I'll I'll be honest about that. Yeah. He doesn't have been another attempt. Well, it could've been. Yeah. It could've been an attempt to dispose of the body. Because he's from Texas Yeah. He's lived here most of his life. In fact, but he didn't have a boat, though. No. He didn't have a boat. Right. So it's yeah. They didn't have a boat. No. And in fact, you know, if other people were involved, but I now I did ask, are others involved? Besides you and your husband, and she says no. I didn't interview him, so I don't know the answer, but I'm sure it was no. So that's that's really what happened the day of the punishment. And it went on her words for six and a half hours. That they disciplined that their their words disciplined the child. And she admitted that she participated in it as well. She did. At some point, did she try to stop him? No. She didn't. No. Why do you think that was? You know? I mean, surely, you can't think that that's normal. No. You know, to discipline a two year old child to that extreme. Yeah. Belt belt mark's still on the body. You know, of course, the body's gonna tell you things. Right. After its deceased. So you look even in the state in which it was. Uh-huh. Even in the state in which she was Right. When y'all found her, we could have seen months and months later, you could still see that even in the state of decomposition. Mhmm. And I think that's what people don't realize is that you know, the body tells stories that the mouth doesn't. Exactly. You know? And it's the same thing that I say about behaviors of people. The body and the actions will tell you what someone's intentions are. Stop paying attention to the words. Right? Because the words will lie and deceive, but the actions of an individual over a period of time will always reveal what their intentions are. And so that's true. You know, this is a terrible, terrible tragedy, that I wanted to bring you in to talk to you about. So she gets life with the possibility of parole. Yes. She's probably not eligible for probably another thirty years. Probably. I would assume. Yeah. She's young. She there's a very good chance she may be paroled at some point. Mhmm. Because she was probably twenty at the time. The the stepfather will never see that. Let's you know, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Let's hope prison justice takes care. I am. Not afraid they have already. They have Okay. Well, good. That's not enough. It was with the first five weeks. Good. Well, that's And you know how they work. I mean, they might wake another year or two. The inmate they may wait him again. They may wait ten more years. That's right. But hopefully, that that that justice will prevail. You know what? If you're if you don't like that, I don't then don't watch the podcast. It is what it is. That's the true. That's the truth. You know?