What's next for HVAC: workforce shifts, safer equipment, and the next generation of techs

Is straight straight out of Crumpton with your host, Greg Crumpton. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to another episode of straight out of Crumpton. I'm Greg Crompton, your host for today. And I'm proud to be bringing you a young lady who is making a big dent in the universe in HVAC, as I like to say. You know, when you get out and you meet people at trade shows and people who are associated with brands of equipment or products that we use, it's always cool to kind of put a face with a name. And rather than just seeing some logo, you can tie it to a person. So I thought today it would be really cool if we brought on Ashley Lenz. And Ashley is the Director of Education and Brand Management at Viper. And Viper is a brand under the refrigeration technologies umbrella. So you folks may know Viper for coil cleaners and that kind of cool stuff. Very nontoxic chemicals, which we need in the air conditioning world. But without further ado, Ashley, welcome to the program, young lady. Thank you so much. I'm super excited to be here and chat with you. Well, you and I met, I don't know, a couple of years ago. And we were just talking about one of your colleagues and how crazy he is. But I think that was the first week I met you, which last I mean, obviously it made a lasting impression for a couple of reasons. But I really love the fact that you have education in your title. So that's cool. But before we get going, why don't you just give us a little snapshot about you, how in the world you wound up in the wacky world of HVAC support, if you will, and a little bit about you. Yeah, so my story is kind of interesting. Most people ask me if I had my dad or brother or something in HVAC, which I totally did not. It definitely wasn't something that I was dreaming about as a kid or was even on my radar really. But I have worked in pretty much all male dominated industries. So I've worked in insurance, I've worked in tech, and now I'm in HVAC, so I'm pretty familiar with that realm. But I wound up here from an acquaintance. I had a girlfriend at the time who was working for my former employer, and I was job hunting because I was fresh off what I call my semi retirement. I took about three years off and traveled the world because why not? Why not? And so I was job hunting when I came back. I was ready to get back in it and make some money again, and she had an opportunity with her employer that they were looking for a salesperson. And I mean, I was a little hesitant because I didn't know anything about HVAC, right? And definitely did not expect it to be as long of a career as it has been but I was with that company for about five years and then when I was ready to take my next you know leap into something new, Viper was there and I've been there almost three years. That's kind of my career history. As far as me personally, obviously I love to travel. I love creating content because that's also part of my job. It's super fun. I'm I'm a very creative person. I'm recently engaged to the love of my life, which is exciting. He's also in HVAC. Well, I mean, why not? He had to be. Why not, right? That's a great story too, which we could talk about that later. But, yeah. And that's kind of where we are here. Semi retirement at your youthful age sounds very funny to hear. But I have to hear about that travel deal one time. When I find you, we'll have to get a cup of coffee and talk about that for sure. Yeah. I've got a ton of stories around that. I kind of think that oftentimes we wait until we're too old, right, to do the things that we want to do, and I didn't want to regret not being able to do something like that. It's still hands down one of the best experiences that I've had in my life and I would not give it up for the world. That is so cool and you're so right because you hear people talking about well when I retire I'm going to do this or you know when we kids get out of the house, we're going to do that. I'm like, screw that. Go do it. You know? Yep. I mean, nothing's promised tomorrow wise. Enjoy what you've got. So that's cool. That is cool. And I'm glad that you are going to marry somebody in our miraculous world of HVAC. And I mean, you know, I was joking around with somebody yesterday and I'm like, well, HVAC is like the pinnacle of life for a career. I mean, everything else is subpar. Right? Exactly. That's how I like to think about it anyway. Alright. Tell us a little bit about Viper because that's a cool name first of all and the owner is a pro hockey player if I recall Mike and his dad started the company. So I know I know enough to be dangerous. So give the folks a little bit about Viper and more, or not more, but it really why Viper? And I know the environmental side, which I think is really, you know, it's so needed and it makes so much sense. So tell give us a little little splash about that. Yeah. So, even when I'm doing all my trainings, I kinda talk about the history of the company because it's so integral to why we produce chemicals the way that we do. John founded the company, but before he he was originally a chemist by trade, and, he did lose his job as a chemist. And when he was job hunting, the first ad in the newspaper was for an AC technician. He got that job, and he worked in the industry for about twenty years. And while he was in the in the field working with all the existing products that were out there, he kinda thought to himself, you know, I could make such a better product, one that's not going to hurt me as a technician, one that's not gonna hurt the equipment, and then also one that's not gonna hurt the environment. And so that's exactly what he did. He started cooking up recipes with his with his wife, Claire, in the kitchen. And they formulated Big Blue, and it kind of caught on with all his coworkers. They loved it and were like, how do I buy it? And that is how refrigeration technologies was formed, and that was in eighty seven. So we're we're coming up on our fortieth anniversary, which is pretty cool. That is cool. So every product really is formulated to be the best possible, but also the safest possible. You know, I think the the techs have enough hazards as it is. Like, how can we make it safer for them, safer for the environment as well, and then obviously not damaging the equipment. Because that's important too. Right? You're doing maintenance. You want to make sure you maintain it. You know, I I think about the environmental impact that our industry has. And we like my company, we have, you know, over five thousand technicians out in the field. And I've talked to a lot of those guys and and ladies. And it. So this is kind of probably not politically correct, but I believe it's honest that most technicians, most, not all, don't wake up every morning thinking about about how to make their impact on the ecosystem of life. On the same hand, I don't think anybody wakes up thinking about how can I harm it either? And what you guys have done is made that really easy to protect the planet, especially with stuff running down roof drains when you clean coils. And the hazards, like you said, to the technician of getting chemicals on you, being absorbed into you. And you think you wash it off, but it's already absorbed by then. So I think you guys make it really easy to not have to think about either hurting or helping the environment. You're doing it naturally with products that work, which is what technicians want. Absolutely. I think it's it's been really interesting to see the shift in the perspective on it. Right? I I think initially, you know, even even ten years ago, what a cutie, even ten years ago, the chemicals were all acids. Very harsh, very hazardous. Right? And, you know, we're starting to see a bigger shift where the businesses care and and there's organizations that care. And we're trying to well, I think as the lifespan of the units gets shorter, we're trying to do things that make it longer. And chemicals can be one of those things. Right? If you have a unit that now maybe lasts ten, twelve years, you want to make sure you actually get those ten, twelve years as opposed to before you had a unit that would last thirty. Right. That's not happening anymore. You know, it's so true because, you know, even reading RFPs and contract proposals, a lot of times, there's language in there about how you maintain the systems and what products you use. So I just love the fact that you don't have to think about it. Just buy the Viper Stop and you're covered and you can feel good about it. And, you know, as a technician, hard headed technicians as we are, we want to see the coil clean. Like almost to a fault, we want to see that coil clean. And here I am this morning. This is no joke. I just told you a while ago before we hit record how warm it was. I was out putting water in this little goofy fountain I've got in the patio. And I was thinking about, man, I need to get my coils cleaned up this summer because it's warm. Like, it's you know, I think about air conditioning people, we can be obsessed about stuff. How did Viper, that brand, come to life? Was that just a brainchild of who? So it's kind of a funny story, actually. So we had the aerosol, which was called Viper. And well, the aerosol is the original product that was called Viper. But John, when he was spraying the aerosol, he thought that the spray came out, and it looked like venom coming out of a snake. And so that's where it originated. And then in, like, twenty seventeen with, Mike, the son, he kind of took it and ran with it. And now all of those cleaners and really, really, every product has the snake on it. And it's just it's something that you recognize. It's very in a sea of of chemicals, we definitely stand because we have a mascot, and it's very noticeable, and our colors are very bright. And so that's kind of, like, all attributed to Mike and some, like, good rebranding, for that line of products. Well, it really works because I'm sitting here thinking about a post I saw not long ago. You probably put it up, but it was, Rosie the Riveter with the snake wrapped around her arm. That was the cool one. Was that you? That was not my doing. That was actually a design that Becca, our marketing director, had put out. Right now it's Women in Construction Week, it's Women's History Month, so we put that out last year I believe around that same time to kind of just get more awareness around women in the space. And I feel like Rosie the Riveter is one of the most iconic trade women that are out there, very recognizable. I also I think I just saw that she died which is really sad. Really? I didn't see that. Yeah. She was, like, a hundred and one. Wow. She lived a very long life, but but, yeah, we always are trying to to you know, we don't we I feel like we're very edgy in our marketing, we try to, you know, do fun things, keep it interesting because, let's be real, most people don't wanna follow a sterile brand. You know? They don't care about a lot of, like, the facts and numbers. They wanna see fun stuff. They wanna see things that are entertaining and fun. Like when you and Becca are having to bleep yourself out from talking dirty on some of them? Yeah. Well, I I just I I I think the brand's cool. Really, I do. And and is to your point, people don't want blase. You know, like I'm holding this eraser. That's kind of really plain and weird. But if I get the eraser off this cool mechanical pencil, totally different deal. So same functionality, just cool. Absolutely. And I that's part of how we've differentiated ourselves as a company. I mean, there's not a ton of chemical, manufacturers in our space. I think we're actually the only manufactures our own chemicals. But with our branding, we've really been able to stand out and, you know, kinda push forward, make a name for ourselves, and reclaim a big chunk of that market. Tell me what, what the future holds. How do y'all think about growing? And and we're at a kind of a weird place, I think, as an industry also because we have a lot of geezers like me retiring. And do you see a generational change in how your product is recognized or interacted with? What does that future look like? Well, think, again, we were probably one of the forefront, like, forerunners with social media. We have a big social following. And the younger guys like that. They're online. They're sharing. They're using. They're, you know, engaging with our product. I think that's gonna be huge. What what's your biggest platform, Ashley? Where do y'all see the most traction with technicians? Definitely Instagram. Instagram. Yeah. Instagram. Yeah. And that age range is, like, I'm gonna say twenty five to forty four, which is pretty big, but that's a chunk of the guys in the field. Absolutely. You know, we do have we do have some older demographic, but not as much. I feel like most of the older guys are running things. Right? So there are maybe the managers or the owners, less in the field, more above the field, if you will. Well, you know, I I spend a lot of time talking to people about making sure our pipeline of talent is coming in. And, you know, they like, I post on LinkedIn. That's where I post. Because I'm not directly trying to reach the technicians. I'm trying to reach the parents of the next technicians. Because we still battle my son wants to be an air conditioning guy instead of a doctor mindset from the parents. And suddenly, with a little bit of education and exposure, they realize the air conditioning guy can make more money and have a better career than a doctor these days. So there's a lot of awareness that I try to bring to that picture. But when we're recruiting and we're talking about where do we find the up and coming stars, I point everybody to Instagram. I mean, if you look what technicians do on Instagram at how they engage, there's some really cool crap going on. There really is. And there's a handful of, I'm gonna call them young guns, that are absolutely killing it right now on Instagram. And I think, you know, the younger generation has really been brought up on social media. So social media is attractive. You have people who are like, I wanna be an influencer as a job. You know? Right. And I think that opening it up to you can have a real, not that an influencer is not a real job, but you can have a hands on job and still have that creative outlet, still be an influencer. Right? You can still make money off of that and get brand deals and sponsorships and still have something to fall back on for when things shift because we all know they will. You know? Every every platform won't be the same going forward. So Well, it's ever evolving. You know? Every day, somebody's coming up with something new to post about. Who are some of the folks you follow? Who do you view as some of the cool up and comers? I love Adam. He's Wolf of HVAC. I've known him since he started, and his story is so phenomenal. I love Ewok. He's also very young, like maybe twenty two. HVAC Disciple, he's twenty. Wow. This is good stuff. You know, my I'm always looking to see what the average age of our technician pool is and how we're trending up or down. And there are some freaking rock stars that are in their twenties. I've got a young man that I work with locally who I do a little coaching with and a little real life talks with, mentoring. And this kid, man, he thinks about stuff at twenty that I didn't think about till I was forty. And I think that's good most days. But to your point about travel, you still have to enjoy the youth and the unencumberedness of youth. Because once you get, you know, married or kids or house or all the above, you're a little bit more restricted, you know, just from a commitment standpoint. So what he wants to do, I'm like trying to temper it by it, like, go have some fun and don't worry about, you know, starting a business right now or or any of that. Just learn and soak it up because there's you you know this well. In our trade, there's so many different verticals you can hit. Residential and then specialize there in topics and commercial and then specialize within topics and refrigeration. And people say HVACR. Well, that's one hundred different jobs. So we have sixty companies in my company, my corporation that I work at. We have sixty companies around the U. S. And Canada, And every one of them is different. You know, they all say HVAC, but how they do it and why they do it in their local market is remarkable, you know? And, I think that's what's unique about air conditioning is once you learn the craft and the science and the math, you can go anywhere and apply those skills. But where you go to apply them is always going to be different than where you were before. And I think that's cool. I don't know about I think about nursing, understanding how to be a nurse and training and getting certified. But when you go to a hospital and you're working in a baby, whatever you call it, thing, obviously I don't have kids. A delivery room probably is the right term. Is that the same as the other one? Because there's certain things that happen in that baby room that can't happen anywhere else. Right. Unlike our business where every freaking service call is different. So I love that about it. Baby room. I don't even know where that came from. I think it's called labor and delivery. Thank you. Thank you. Look, I told you earlier before we hit record that the HVAC community had excluded the smarter half of the population or half of all of our career. So you just validated my thoughts. Here's a question, a chauvinistic question, because I'm going to ask you a male to woman question. What do you feel like companies need to do to make sure we're appealing to the younger lady generation? That is such a good question and such a hard question. I think you have to show them that there's going to be support, that there's going to be other women that they can connect with, that the environment is going to be supportive. Because I think that that's really the biggest barrier. When you jump into a male dominated industry, I think the first thing that comes to mind is like, Is this safe? Is this going to be okay? Am I going to be treated equally? Because there is that stigma that that's not always the case, right? But I really think it goes back to support. And I'm gonna be honest, some of some of the people that have encouraged me the most have been men. My biggest champions have been men, and I feel like I really needed those people in order to thrive and succeed in this space. So I feel like that I've worked hard to be a champion of women as well. My company that when I owned it was primarily ran by women. Again, going back to the smarter half of the population. And even the young people that I interact with today, I try to be supportive and but there I can't quite figure out how to get through to some people on the male side who still wanna have that ******* mentality of inferiority or whatever it is they're trying to bestow upon women in our industry. And I read this stuff online that women go through on job sites and the verbal and the physical and all the harassment that goes with that. But I don't know how to break through with that. And is it just a matter of time and we just keep grinding away and slowly trying to get the percentage up to where it's not abnormal to have a female technician. It's not at some places, but it's still foreign at others. You know, I'm just trying to think how you fast forward that. And is there a fast forward button, or do we have to grow through it? I wish there was a fast forward button, but I don't think there is, if I'm being honest. I think it is familiarity. You know? We still I think we have, like, nine percent of the industry is females, which is low. And that I think that even includes all of our, like, support. Right? Like, our our admin, our office structure. So I think until that number grows and it's just this is common. Right? It's gonna take some time. I don't I don't think it I don't think there is a, you know, a switch that we can flip. Although I wish there was. I think part of it also we have to go back to the young girls. We have to go back to them and tell them that there is a ton of opportunity in all these trade programs. That you don't have to be manual laborer. There's so many other positions that you can also hold. And the same is true for men. They don't have to just be in the field. They can be in the office too. And I think by getting the younger generation familiar that there is all this opportunity, and I think part of that is having some really awesome women talk to the younger generation, be those role models for them, and say, you know, oh, I I could be just like her. I could do those things too. She looks like she's having fun. You know? She's really successful. And and then we kind of start mimicking that down the line. Well, I'm I'm with you. I don't think there's a fast forward button. You know, I think we always wish there was, but sometimes there's just not. But, you know, I was just thinking about our numbers and we're about ten percent, of service logic is women, in all roles. And then, like, we're just minimal in the field, you know, unfortunately. But we'll get there because, you know, I mean, like eight years ago, I think it's eight that we started women in HVAC at Service Logic. And it's a support group. It's a peer group. It's a whatever group where once a month there's four ladies that run it. And they bring in speakers. It's a webinar. And those numbers are slowly trickling up. So we're making an impact, you know, just within our company. But, you know, I had a young lady on the podcast earlier this week or that was released this week, Brooke Lang from Canada. And, you know, they're I think Canada's ahead of us as far as what they're doing with women in the field. But same crap. You know, they're minor percentages. But I think we just got to keep grinding. But to your point, Ashley, getting our strong women spokespeople in front of young ladies, And I find that sixth and seventh grade is a really good time to talk to young folks about just seed planning and what they can do as they get older before they get to high school, because then they're too cool to hear for a few years. You know, they know everything. But then they come. But if you seed plant well early, even after they get cool, they still remember that. And then as they start to get uncool, like, oh crap, I'm graduating. I got to really make sure I have a plan, you hope those seeds have started to blossom a bit. I think we are making some progress, too, especially with all of the student loan crisis that's been happening, where all of these my generation, we were pushed to go to school. You have to go to college. If you don't go to college, you're going to be the trash man. Well, the trash man makes great money, but we kind of neglected to tell that. Guaranteed jobs, yeah. So I have seen a shift which is awesome. People are less apt to go to college, and so as they're looking for those other avenues, I think the trades is a great avenue. So I do think we're going to make some progress there because so many people are now drowning in student loan debt and don't have anything of real value. And I say that as somebody who I have a degree. I do use some things, but not much realistically. So I think if you're going be a doctor or a nurse or a lawyer, college makes sense. But if you don't have a plan and you don't know what you want and you're not in one of those really specified fields, it just it doesn't make sense anymore. Well, we yeah. I'm I'm totally pro college for the people that need and should go to college. I wasn't one of those people. But you have to have that. And I say, you know, a patient needs a surgeon and a surgeon needs a patient. There's got to be balance and you can't overload one with the other. But the numbers are indicative of we are making an impact as far as the trades becoming more relevant and the fact that so many people have degrees that they can't get work in because the degree is, in some cases, irrelevant to what makes money. And people don't hire people unless they can make money together. So, yeah, I think we just got to keep banging that drum. But the trade school enrollment is up year over year for the last four or five years, sixteen percent or more. So the one challenge maybe I've been asking everybody this question. Maybe you can help me with it, but. Trade schools are overpopulated. They don't have enough seats to fill the demand in a lot of cases. It's here locally, I know for sure. So here's the question. Why do we, as a government, continue to give Ivy League schools that have multibillion dollar endowments millions of dollars a year versus building more technical schools? I feel like this is kind of a political question. It's not intended to be political. Don't understand why our tax dollars go there when they're already so well endowed. And then we have tech school, Greenville Tech, right down the road here that doesn't have enough seats for the demand. I don't get that. Yeah. I think my honest answer, which is not meant to be political, but I think that there are, you know, the powers that be. The longer you're kept in school, the more you're easily manipulated. They teach you what they want teach you, and then you carry that through. You know, they think The old indoctrination program. I do. I do think that. And I think I think that if you look at, like, most of your entrepreneurs, a lot of those people are people who didn't finish high school, people who didn't go to college. They have a different way of thinking. And the people who go to college are your in a corporate job, they work a certain schedule. They're very different mindsets. And I feel like the people in the trades are more entrepreneurial. Right? They wanna get in there. They wanna work with their hands. They wanna figure out a problem. But when you're told to go to school and you stay in school and that's what you do, you're you're very much okay. You're gonna learn the things that I want you to learn, not the things that are valuable for you. Why did I wait so long to ask you that question? I should have asked you that three years ago. I wouldn't be pondering it. So do you think you're in the service business? Did you view yourself as in the customer service business? I think everyone is kind of in the customer service business. I wouldn't say like I am like a CSR, but I think I interact with people on a daily basis about our product, and I help them try to solve their problems, which is really what customer service is. Right? I read this book. I'm gonna show it to you. I just finished it up. Have you ever heard of this book unreasonable hospitality? I have it's on my list of things to read. I have, it hasn't, I haven't read it yet, but this freaking book, Ashley. And I don't I don't say this lightly. One of the top three books I've ever read in my life. Because it it makes us think about serving better, whether we're educating a group of technicians or whatever. Really cool. I'm reading this one right now. This is good too. That's Vanilla for Merchant book for you who can't see that. But that hospitality book really took me on a journey of thinking about how service really works. And unreasonable hospitality was the little things like one extra step in everything you do. And that, you know, if you look on the wall back there, there's a frame right there. And that's one of the steps in my company's mantra was one extra step in everything you do. But that book lit me up on how we as an industry need to service the incoming people and make sure we're showing them everything we can and one extra thing, like laying out the career path, not just, you know, the old show up and shut up deal. But if you come in and apply yourself, here's the milestones, here's where you get to, here's what that looks like. Here's the next steps because that's what people want now. And that book really made me think about how, how do we do onboarding as an industry, not as a company? Thoroughly is the answer. We don't do well. But it's just like when I think about an interview or somebody having a career at a company like yours, the culture of that company is on display at the first interview. And I think we have to go one more step in the recruiting piece and how are we serving during the recruitment. That to me is how we get the right people in the trade, those entrepreneurial minded people. Yeah. You bring I think you bring up a really good point. And I've been having this conversation a lot on social media where, yes, there's these trade schools, but the trade schools in the eyes of the contractor, aren't really preparing the person appropriately for the job. And then the contractor is hesitant to hire, you know, this new graduate because they don't have the right skills and they need to become basically an apprentice. So they have to invest all of this time in this person and then that person decides, I don't really like it and I don't want to do it anymore. And then there's all of this money and training that has kind of been wasted. And so I've been talking to a lot of youngsters who are trying to get into the field who feel like they don't have an opportunity because they're kind of gatekeeped because they don't have the right skill set or, you know, nobody wants to really invest in them. And so it brings up a really interesting dynamic because I think we're kind of failing on multiple ends. I think the trade school is failing on not having the best program that is as relevant as possible for contractor. And I think the contractor is failing on not having the the wherewithal to set up that career expectation. Like, if you do stick around, this is where you'll be. If you do stick around, this is the career path. This is the amount of money you can make. We're investing in you. There's a big disconnect there. So if we want people who are going to stick around, who are invested in the career, we have to help them. Yep. That's a really good point, Ashley. There's so many curriculum based programs that teach the math and science of air conditioning. There's no doubt. Vapor compression is a vapor compression, But there's so much more to the trade than just understanding that a compressor pumps refrigerant. So, yeah, we got to go to work on that. And, you know, I think having ad hoc professors that work in the trade is a really good way do that rather than strictly academic instructors. So Yeah. I think that's gonna be a trend because people are beginning to they feel it. Yeah. And I think too on the contractor side, from the business perspective, if you want different curriculum, you you have to tell them what curriculum you want. You know? You gotta be more involved. If you want a better product, you have to participate in getting that better product out there. So it's not going to well be on the academic committee to help make sure that the program is delivering the the graduate out of the two year whatever program that's ready to go to work. And, you know, like right now, I mean, view this a lot. You we're union and non union, so I'm not being biased. It can be the same depending on the geography. There's some union shops that when they get a first year apprentice, they're really sharp and on the ball. And then there's some nonunion shops where they get a youngster from tech school that is really sharpening on the ball and then vice versa. So you have it all over. All right. So you mentioned you're getting married. Congratulations. I also happen to realize that your fiance is doing something within the industry that is new and or cool. Would you like to break the ice? I would love to. Yeah. He is definitely gonna be disrupting this space. We like to call them pirates, but their company is called Enveric, and it is essentially a heat pump with a thermal collector attached to it. So the thermal collector helps with the refrigerant. It is pumped through the thermal collector, and, essentially, it reduces your energy consumption from the unit by about forty percent. Wow. Crazy tax incentives because of the thermal collector. And this is commercial. I should also specify that. It is a commercial unit, so, five and ten ton units. But, you know, really, it's gonna it's gonna change the game. I think I this is gonna be their first year actually selling this collective product. They did just previously make the the thermal collectors, and you'd have to pipe them into existing equipment. But now they'll have this whole comprehensive platform. They have real time analytics, which no one else on the market has. So you'll be able to see exactly what your unit is doing at any given moment throughout the day. So it's gonna be I'm super excited for them. I think it's gonna really change how especially commercial buildings are are are viewing HVAC. So it's n v I r I q. That is unique. Yeah. This is definitely a phonetic spelling in Zurich. Beautiful. Awesome. Well, thank you for joining. Of course. No. Thank you for having me. It was fun.