Bridging Online Shopping with Brick-and-Mortar: The Importance of Improving Online-to-Offline Tracking in a Post-Cookie Retail Industry

Hello, everyone. Happy Thursday morning, and welcome to another episode of experts talk. Mark scales premium, debate, and discussion roundtable, where we sit down with the top voices in your industry to talk shop on major trends, technologies, topics, timely news, you name it that's shaping your industry. And again, we sit down with the experts, the thought leaders, the professionals, the market movers in your industry that are throwing their hat into the ring and through active dialogue here on shows like this, and in their own spaces are helping to make sense of changes in their industry and, again, figure out some solutions and some actionable strategies. So folks, thanks again for joining us. I'm Daniel win, the voice of b to b, your host for today. And always, it's a beautiful day here in Dallas, Texas, and, it's been quite the busy week. Yesterday, we were site at the Irving Convention Center to talk to the larger ecosystem of electric vehicle charging companies and players that are revolutionizing that industry. And now we're flipping. We're talking retail today, so always on my toes and always grateful for the opportunity to talk shop with some great pros. Speaking of which, if you wanna tap into some of other coverage because, of course, we're not just talking retail here on market skill dot com. We're covering a variety of industries, and we've done a ton of different experts talk round tables with different pros on different subjects, all equally important. You can find them all on market scale dot com, including full episodes of the show, info on upcoming, live round tables. We go live at least three a week now. And, yeah, of course, other podcasts and thought leadership from major players in b to b. Alright folks. Let's jump into the meat of the show today. So today, our experts are gonna be talking retail. More specifically, we're gonna be opening up debate discussion on post cookie retail marketing. And more specifically, offering some strategies now in this ecosystem for better connecting customer data in this online to offline journey. So as we'll get into here in a little bit, twenty for is finally realizing a major shift in advertising infrastructure, obviously, especially for retail, and that's the death of the third party cookie. Google is moving forward with its depreciation of third party cookies, which means that targeted advertising as folks have, you know, become used to it is seeing a major upheaval, a death blow, I guess you could say. But even in the cookie era, right, retail marketing and advertising campaigns, Still found it hard to gauge concretely whether their investments were successful or a waste of dollars and actually connected from this campaign to this amount of revenue. Right? How do you know if one specific ad on Instagram actually got your customer to go to their local at MALL and by that Stanley. Right? That kind of data exists, but it's not connected. And overall, the retail ecosystem is lacking a lot of that connective tissue to inform more mature marketing strategies that respond to the times, engage with customers where they're today, enhance the customer experience, and, of course, create insights that let us better fine tune that omnichannel ecosystem. So today on the show, we're wanting to do is open up the question on how retailers should rethink their marketing and advertising strategies really at large But more specifically in the context of this cookie less world, right, at the third party cookie less world. What data is critical to track and connect, where does, innovative retail media fit into this ecosystem, what other options exist for more focused targeted advertising that works even better than third party cookies and takes better advantage of first party data and creates that connective tissue for the whole omnichannel retail ecosystem. So enough of my intro. Let's dive in and let the experts talk here on experts talk. I'm pleased to welcome our panel of four retail experts who are gonna here with us chatting. Again, new strategies in this, post cookie world for retail marketers and for retail advertising in general. So hello to the four of you. Great to have you all on with us today. Let's go down the line and give everyone a quick intro. First up, we're joined by mister Dylan Barber. He's cofounder of visor, Dylan. How you doing today? Great to have you on. Oh, little muted there. Hold on. One sec. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Now we gotcha. There we go. Hey, man. Thank you so much for joining us. How you doing? Yeah. I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited to, excited to chat today. I think the the other panelists we were catching up before have some really interesting opinion. So I'm I'm I'm pumped to go through it. Yeah, man. It's gonna be great. Thank you for taking the time to Talk shop with us today. We're also joined by Mr. Mark Stamps. He's vice president of digital commerce at the Harvest group. Mark Hello. How you doing? Hey, Daniel. Hey. Great. Doing well today. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you for joining us as well. We're joined also by mister Ethan Sernovsky, SVP of marketing at Placer dot ai, Ethan. Welcome. How are you today? Doing great. Great to be here. Yeah, man. Thank you for joining us. And last but not least, we're joined by Divora Rogers chief strategy officer at Alter agents Devora. Great to have you on. How are you? Thank you. So glad to be here. Glad to be with you all. Thank you to everyone who's joining. Gaff really for this conversation. Yeah. It's gonna be a juicy one. There's a lot of timely context to unpack, and we're really gonna get actionable with strategies here and open up discussion between these four, great experts who all come from different slices of the larger, you know, omni channel retail ecosystem, but all have touch points in use of data, informing smarter retail strategies. So, again, I'm excited to open discussion. So go ahead, let's jump right into it. Right? I want to frame up a little more context here on the death of the cookie. So when we talk about the end of third party cookies, for those who are unfamiliar, perhaps listening in, Google is officially phasing out cookies finally. After many years of delay, twenty twenty four is supposedly gonna be the year by q three of twenty twenty four. Google says it wants to phase out cookies for a hundred percent of Chrome Earlier in January, they phased out, cookies for one percent of Chrome users, which sounds like not that many, but that's thirty million people. So already a significant dent, even if it's only one percent. And I'm curious, Dodge, you wanna open up discussion here. What are your reactions to this sort of finally getting to the meat of the issue here? Right? The appreciation of the third party cookie, the end of this era of third party tracking. I know marketers are stressing out, but what are y'all's perspectives here. Right? In the grand scheme of things, is this a positive change or a negative change for retail? Where are we at? What's the pulse check? I'd love to jump in, as the person here representing shoppers, because that's the work that we do is understanding you know, why shoppers buy, what influences them. I couldn't be more glad to see this era come to an end. You know, we call them cookies, and they sound so sweet. And I love cookies. I love chocolate chip cookies so so much. But the truth is is that it's been a completely narcissistic tool that basically allowed brands to go around the hard work of brand building and the hard work of connecting the shoppers. And so I think there are so many more opportunities for us to better connect for us to better deliver content shoppers in a way that's not narcissistic and meets them with the information they need actually to make informed purchase decisions. Hope that wasn't too evocative there. No. Divora, I actually go ahead, Dylan. Thank you, Mark. I was actually and I'm sure, Mark, you're probably gonna agree too. I I'm totally on board with you there. I think it's a part of a broader trend of one, consumers wanting to own their data in general. I think that's something that people really wanna focus on moving forward. But two, just concept of authenticity. Consumers are super smart. They've gotten smarter every single year, every single day. And so this concept of authenticity where you can't really just invest twenty million dollars into a Facebook ad campaign and scale your campaign and scale your brand from zero to fifty million dollars a year anymore. Like, that just doesn't work. And so I think this this concept of putting in the work, building a brand, meeting consumers where they are is is really what's gonna be the the status quo moving forward. Yeah. I'll I'll agree to a degree. As much as I appreciate the the authenticity. It would definitely in in the work that a brand has to do I also don't wanna be inundated, with diaper, campaigns as I just surf the internet because I'm not in that life stage. So, it's not gonna say that we're gonna get less, less ads thrown at us. In fact, we'll probably get more ads that just creates actually quite a bit of waste because the brands still have to meet an audience. And if they can't select the audiences like they have done in the past, then I think it'll be actually a little noisier than it has in the past. In fact, the consumer might actually say bring back the cookies, in a way of, like, at least you showed me things that were halfway relevant, to to what I'm interested. So that that's where it kind of balances the fine lines. We'd have to find new new ways to to do that in this in the new world. I mean, I I really agree with Mark. I think I think this idea that we're we're kind of all jumping on the cookies are are terrible bandwagon. Is is a little silly because they're not. They're a way to reach a consumer. Now I think the challenge was, was it done well? So Yeah. You know, I think the frustration that those of us who didn't love the advertising we were seeing, you know, and things like, you know, with cookies was I went on, you know, trip advisor and I looked for a hotel in New York. And for the next four weeks, All I was seeing is hotels in New York when I that trip had already been completed three weeks ago. So it it wasn't smart enough, and it wasn't effective enough for the consumer. So I think the big lesson here is not that there is a good or bad marketing channel. There are the marketing channels that are available to us. Some of them go away and we need to evolve the way we reach consumers. But that there is a better way to reach. And if we optimize the way we reach, and we make it, non invasive and not annoying for the consumer, then we're gonna create a better experience for them overall. So I'm I'm curious then because so, you know, what what we're seeing here is that there's obviously already a little disagreement here the future of targeted advertising and the role that data data capture, should play in guiding the customer from interest to purchase. Right? But I'm I'm curious because, you know, end of the cookie is not the end of all data capture. It's not the end of all targeted advertising. It's just putting now the onus on first party data over third party cooking, cooking cookie strategies. I'm curious how sophisticated y'all see the strategies for making use of first party data today for targeted advertising. Like, how sophisticated is it compared to where cookies were and got to. Right? Because I know a lot of consumers, I mean, even myself, I I don't love targeted but then I get one, and I'm like, wow, I actually might buy that. And I I do engage with targeted advertising, from, you know, third party cookies. And so while they weren't perfect, they did to some degree, find a good balance of presenting somewhat useful information to consumers, and it's not like they were wholly unused. Where is first party data and the solutions and ecosystems around it? How sophisticated is the use of first party data to kinda match the targeted advertising that cookies was able to offer retailers. Is it there yet? Is it not? Are, you know, how do we compare and contrast? Yeah. I would say it's there. I'm just jumping in here. I I think it's it's there in, in very isolated areas. I would say some of the more sophisticated retailers are already leveraging the plethora of data that they they have available to them. In terms of, shopper journey, the, what they browse, what they clicked on, what they've purchased in the past. I mean, they have years worth of, purchase data, what else was in that shopping basket. And so that can really be accelerated in getting better targeted than what you even had with cookies that was just generated on just some, you know, browsing and jumping around on the internet and or demographic data. This now adds a lot more granularity to where do they actually vote with their dollars in which to purchase things. So from a brands that really wanna identify and, really target those consumers. I think it's actually gotten a lot better especially in the world where you have clean rooms at some of the top retailers that will allow you to really get big into multi touch attribution. Did you show a ad to somebody four times before they converted or did you have to show them eight times? That really then gets a lot more, specific for a brand. It's like, man, I actually you have to invest more in which to hit a threshold that will tip them to, hand me their dollars and credit cards. I mean, I think I think it just depends on oh, sorry about that. Go ahead. You know, I'm not an expert in all that's being done in the it's in the technical space, but what we see on the on the research side is that there are so many great ways to connect insights that people have willingly given us, whether it's through a segmentation and later a typing tool to panels that have data that that they're allowed to have to retailers who have all kinds of first party data And so I think that in the end, what we're gonna see is that it's going to provide greater context, greater connection, yeah. And there will be some workarounds, but but that the tech is absolutely getting there, and the retailers have had a number of years to really get their, their tech up to par, in a way that I think is really exciting. I mean, I think I think you have to understand the limitations of any type of data. Right? Data is not an answer to a question. Data is a mechanism to to get an answer and there are limitations to all types. Right? So the challenge of a first party data is that it's fundamentally limited. Right? So it's not representative. It doesn't show me the full spectrum. It certainly doesn't show me how things compare in context because if everyone's doing first party data, that that data collection mechanism, the what I consider something might be different than what someone else considers it. So you have this apples to apples problem, which is a which is a significant challenge. I think the the the ideal way forward is combination of factors. Right? So you wanna use third party data for certain things. You wanna use first party data for things. And I think what we're seeing in the retail space overall is a growing level of sophistication in the available types of data with a forward looking look at, hey, what's privacy centric. What is do we think is going to be here five, ten years down the road so that we can build strategies that will work over the long haul? Yeah. I'll I'll throw something in there though, even that you it is not a a linear journey. And I think that's important to to recognize, like, where you get exposed to some of this, advertising. And then it might look like it was a dud. But still eighty plus percent is still done in a brick and mortar. And so being able to, the offline attribution is gonna be a critical thing that needs to be considered and how to track that. So in terms of privacy, I think we're gonna get a lot more cameras installed at brick and mortar for them to get some of data back. So, I think, But it was it was never linear. We just thought it was because we had this one thing that said, look, I did this. I showed this thing, and then they did the thing. But, actually, our research has shown that it's never, ever, ever been linear, that even concept of this linear, we, we actually refuse to do, I mean, we'll do them if clients make us, but, you know, the shopper journey, we do a lot of shopper journey work. And I refuse to put it on a linear slide, like, like, a linear graphic, you know, because it just, like, they move all around. And so I, I, I think your point is really well taken. We thought it was linear because it just we had this little thing over here that allowed us to look at that, but, but actually, it never was. And so the exciting thing is now we get to do actually be in the space with shoppers where they're using all kinds of things, and they will give permission In fact, our our research, both third party and our own, shows that they're very willing to share data. When asked appropriately, when there's a value exchange, when it's not their health and, like, you know, personal intimate date. Right? They are willing. So I agree Ethan, like, all we're gonna bring in all these different sources, and it certainly makes some of the work harder. But look, I mean, AI and the capabilities of data science teams are so ahead of where they've been. We just don't have this one tool and it'll come together in other ways now. Yeah. Actually, I think the point on value, which I'd love to hear Dylan, because I think he's breaking into this, which is what is that value equation that's gonna allow that consumer to say, okay. I'll I'll give you my name. I'll give you my number. What is that value equation? So, Dale, I don't know if you've you've been able to crack that nut, yet on what is that what's that trigger? We we've seen it at a high level. So we tell brands to essentially consider the campaign is like a matrix. So you need to you need to take into account, like, okay, what's the goal? Is the goal to get people to actually redeem the product or is the goal to just get people who already like it to repurchase the product? What's, like, the incentive mechanism here? The second is then the offer value. So is it a free product? Is it thirty percent off? Is it a BOGO? Because all of those have different implications. And then the third is the platform. So if I'm trying to acquire into customers, I'm gonna be running these on meta Google search, out of home campaigns, things like that. And if I'm trying to get people who are already like my product to repurchase it, then that's gonna be through more like an omnichannel approach of my email, my SMS, organic social things like that. And so we've seen out of the gate. Right? Like, if all three of those aren't aligned, like, if I'm trying to acquire new customers and I'm running it on meta, but I'm doing a five percent discount, there's really no value exchange there. And so you have to, like, what's what's great is we see all of the performance data real time. So the second somebody clicks and downloads and redeems, like, we have access to that type of information. And so that's, like, one thing that brands are testing with is, like, alright. What is the exact kind of percentage discount or incentive or value that I have to offer to get this person to essentially do what you're saying? Like, share some type of information with me. Like, what is that value exchange? And so we're seeing that real time, at least as it relates to in store purchases, which has been really interesting. I think there's a lot of this also that needs to kind of there's so much value in digital channels. Let's let's not not lower that, that importance. But there is a really significant element in here where we need to break out of the digital bubble, and and part of this is recognizing where are retailers looking now, where are a lot of folks looking product companies as well, that areas that we do not think were as exciting just a year or two of So we think about retail media and the brick and mortar environment. Why is that so exciting? It's because of all of the things that make the brick and mortar environment so interesting. We're in discovery mode. We have high intent. We're close to the point of sale. Even though I can't necessarily track the specific individual and know exactly who you are or the fact that you ate cocoa pebbles last week. That doesn't mean that I can't guide you on this journey when I know your market, and you're in the cereal. File. So I think there's a lot of things that we can do contextually understanding of audiences. We are going to remove ourselves more and more from targeting specific individuals. That doesn't mean we have to lower our focus on understanding audiences or thinking differently about the way we understand and then bring with the right messages to different audiences. Anything in a lot of ways, it's gonna make marketing more effective, not less effective. I'm I'm gonna jump in here. I I like where that's headed, right, because I think that highlights, how much you know, marketing and retail media strategies really about I mean, they're about obviously connecting with audiences, but audiences usually exist in the context of community. These communities themselves take on lives of their own. You know, there are signifiers that, you know, speak to them and their are, you know, intricacies and nuances within that community that sort of self defined themselves. And so I don't know. Like you said, like Coco pebbles fans, if there's a opportunity of cocoa pebbles eaters, you know, marketing more to the community, which is I think an a slight strategic shift over marketing to the individual might be an interesting way to think about the future of this post cookie world as targeted advertising gets kind of a slap in the face, and we have to rethink how do we use our first party data to speak to the people who are buying in our stores or buying online. I'm glad y'all are talking about, offline purchases. That's obviously a major theme of the, roundtable today. And you know, y'all hit on it. It's still like the oversized portion of where retail sales are happening. This is from a Forrester survey from August. They found that offline sales reached three point six trillion dollars, and this was in twenty twenty two. And the momentum here is only increasing. Right? It's expected to hit point two trillion by twenty twenty eight. Offline is still growing. In a lot of ways, there's so much nascent opportunity. So I'm curious if y'all could pick at that a little bit more. Just just keep setting the scene here. In the omnichannel retail ecosystem, what role do you see the the in store buyer, kind of playing in a larger retail revenue strategy, marketing strategy, customer loyalty strategy, Right? Compared to kinda where some of the energy and the change is for the purely online shopper or the click and collect shopper, which is slightly different. Right? These are the folks who are are are going to the store. They were influenced maybe by something online, but the purchasing is happening in the store. What role do they play? And how can retailers start rethinking strategies around reaching them, speaking to them, and creating, you know, marketing content, advertising strategies that get them to buy. Thoughts? I think it's a super important point. You know, I happen to be I happen to be wearing a shirt from a company called True Classic. I saw the an ad for this brand on Facebook. They actually recently opened up a store in in Dallas. They you don't only have a handful of locations throughout the country. What's the purpose of that store? Are they gonna sell as much in the store as they will in all of their amazing digital advertising? Probably not. But the store is to try on products. It's to engage with the brand. It's to touch and feel, make sure I find the right size, and then allow me to then continue my journey online afterwards. I I think what's what's changing is we're understanding that online has a lot more value that is beyond what is cookie based, but so does offline. And when we think about the omnichannel experience, it's about how do I maximize all these channel for the distinct advantages that they bring to the table. If I try to do online sizing, excuse me, product sizing online, it's not as good as it is in a store. There are many startups that have tried the, you know, champion this cause and and not succeeded because it's really difficult. But there are things online that are much better. It's far more convenient. It's much easier. And I think the shift in focus that needs to take place for retail is asking, at each retailer, What do I wanna gain from the store? And what does the store bring for my product to my consumer? And what can how can online bring its ideal benefits to my consumer based off of my product And I think that's the fundamental change, and that's how we're gonna maximize both online and offline channels together. Yeah. Ethan, the, the balance that I think is that the brands have to consider in in retailers is the fact that, the consumer is super, influenceable. In a very quick way. And when I say that is when before the day, I you guys probably don't remember the shipping wasn't always free. And it wasn't always next day. But once you offer that to a consumer that now becomes expectation. And so through the evolution of online purchases, there has been a a bias towards making things profitable. So, therefore, what I offer the consumer is a large count pack. Well, when I walk into a retail store. I don't wanna buy the gig a ton worth of of product. I just that that price points too much. But online, that the only thing that's available. So as you have these kind of merge brick and mortar, opportunities, the assortment mix gonna be important because they're experiencing you digitally. And then, but that's not what they necessarily wanna see when they walk in the store. And so how do I list which item that I wanna offer? Because if I offer them the thing that's two dollars, I won't make any money when I ship it to them or but I need to offer that because when they walk in the store, they don't want the big pack. They just want the single pack. And so that is where I think the the merge is gonna how can how fast can you to that premium assortment that's gonna meet both of those needs states. Recognizing those shopper journeys are dramatically different. But there's an expectation that retail solves that for them. And so that that is where I think the conundrum is gonna be like, how can I get my shelf to be small count pack and large count pack in the same space to offer that to those consumers? Before I'd love to get your perspective on that consumer journey as what we've trained them to expect from a digital standpoint like if it's always available or, you know, out of stocks just are not, the thing anymore. It's really tricky because consumers really do have high expectations. We call it the promiscuous shopper. And that is to say the death of love. They can go anywhere anytime, any place, and get whatever they want. And that now is part of our DNA. Like, that's our expectation. So that, you know, that's the reality. They've already been shopping distinctly for a long time. So some of the things that we see is that, people that shop retailers where they, you know, purchase online, but pick up in store are some of the most interesting shoppers. They tend to be extremely savvy. They tend to be more likely to be work from home, higher income. So there's all these different things that have you know, developed. And we often think that retail and grocery stores and, you know, brick and mortar environments are made for shoppers, but they're not. They're actually made for retailers to sell things to operationally bring things into the store in a way that's easy for them. And so I think that the opportunity for this offline online intermixing is to really better serve the shopper, to really give you know, and and it won't be easy. I I I think that the folks at brands that are figuring out how to sell things on e commerce or in retail are I I I call them neuroscientists because Honestly, it's one of the the hardest things to do, and you have so much data coming at you. But if you always come back to Yeah. But what is right for the shopper? And can we do that? And will the is this workable? And can we get it to them the next day if we don't have it in stock today? And What are the ways in which retail can offer some of those benefits, that online has offered? And it'll take effort, but, it'll pay off. Let's chat a little bit then about, helping link this data for the offline line to online shopper. Right? Obviously, this is still a challenge for a lot of retailers. Finding that connective tissue to say how do we really understand if our marketing and advertising strategies that captured interest online actually led to this person going to their outlet mall and buying this exact product. How can that get that insight. How can the retailer, if it's a larger, you know, let's let's say a Macy's, right, get that information and make use of it and sense of it to inform their strategies. I'm curious if y'all can pick at a little bit why that data is still so hard to connect. Like, why why aren't there more standardized solutions in space and how can we start to as a retail community get more innovative and creative with how we link those two disparate communities, but that kind of singular buyer journey, even if it's not linear, as Divora said. You know, the one that starts online and ends line. How do we improve that data visibility and intention? Yeah. I I I can kick that one off. I I think there's there's it's twofold. One, it's extremely expensive. To to map all of that data, purchasing credit card information, which, you know, people obviously probably don't wanna make super public that they're doing that. But from a from a consumer perspective, it's mapping it to your first party data. It's mapping it to so many different things. It's just, like, extremely difficult. And then the second I think is, like, while retailers have made a lot of progress and we're talking about how much progress is, there's been they're still extremely antiquated in a lot of these ways. I think like couponing being one of the main, if not the main issue that they're a little bit stuck in, you know, maybe the eighteen hundreds. So there still needs to be a lot of progression in in that space from from the tech side of things. I think that's why you've seen a lot of retail media networks launch. One, great revenue opportunity for the retailer, but two, they can at least track in their digital experience kind of what Mark was saying earlier like, who's engaging? What have they purchased in the past? Are they purchasing in store? They have access to all that information? I think one thing that we're gonna start to see is this concept of maybe like I don't know if it's the right phrase, but democratizing data in the sense that, like, every brand will have the ability to see the efficacy of their marketing campaigns, and that's just something we're in the early innings of, working on ourselves personally. But, but I think in general, the the space is starting to heat up. Yeah. They'll have I mean, I was just gonna comment same things. The data clean room, technology is what's gonna amplify that. And that through line is the fact that I have this email address and I I know where they have all shocked. So it'll be at an individual level, but then confidence that the the data clean room technologies can anonymize that in a way that makes it actionable and not too creepy and knowing that I'm giving away in all my my all my secrets. So that's the democratization is actually a perfect term for it. But ultimately is being able to take that through line and like this shopper. I know now of eighty percent of where they have traveled and shopped. So I can't put together that, nonlinear journey. A lot more effectively. But, yeah, clean rooms is what's gonna be, able to deliver that. And then the if you think of all those concentric circles that that kind of merged together, of I have an audience and then here's who's overlap here and they've got overlap here and so trying to get really smart with uh-uh feel those those audience say annotations. And, Dylan, Could you give our audience and the other panelists here a little more context to you and some of the work you're doing with visor? Because I find it really interesting. And again, I think it's a microcosm of some of the ways that we can get more innovative with solutions that, turn retail media into a more intentional starting point and ending point for tracking that customer journey. So could you unpack that a little bit for us? And I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on on that solution, the strategy as well. Yeah. Totally. So essentially what what we have the ability to do is create single use digital bar codes that brands can distribute on any digital platform that they want. So think you see an Instagram ad. You can click a link and download a unique bar code. That essentially operates like a coupon. You can walk into the store, scan it at checkout, you get the discount for the brand that you've, you know, redeemed it for. He's also work on some dot com sites for retailers. And then the brand itself has access to now see, like, great. Ira in this ad that directly attributed to this number of sales in store. Which is a type of online to offline tracking on platforms that aren't retail media networks that has not been, you know, accessible to these folks. Where I think, like, it solves a major problem from the shopper side of things, which is kind of what Tavora touched on is that this allows brands to meet people where they are. They don't have to force them to go to a specific page on a retailer's side or they don't have to force them to go to Amazon. Like, I can be watching a Hulu ad and see this this coupon type product. I can be following my favorite influencer on Instagram and see this type product. So it just gives the brands ability, one to meet you up is where they are, but two to evaluate, like, what's actually working? Like, we're saying this before. D display ads in terms of, like, a direct getting people to go buy the product, like, in store, they just don't work. And so figuring out, like, money's not free anymore. These brands can't just go raise hundreds of millions of dollars from venture capital funds and so they need to be super savvy with how they're spending money and shortening the feedback loop on, is this dollar actually returning two or three dollars for me? Is it's kind of a huge issue that we're we're trying to solve especially when retail accounts for eighty to ninety percent of the revenue for a lot of these brands. So I'll I'll use that as a jumping off point now to open up discussion. What kinds of strategies were solutions or sort of larger ecosystems than should retailers be thinking about and considering, to better link these two disparate communities. Right? Or really, it's it shouldn't be that disparate because it's a singular journey. Right? But again, what kinds of solutions and strategies should retailers consider we leave the third party cookie world, and we now need to find better ways to use our advertising our marketing spend to find that connective data between the online interest to the offline buyer. What's out there? What are you seeing? Any recommendations? I I'd love to jump in here. I you know, there are so many great things now. And, there is, you know, Dylan was was speaking about, you know, QR codes and bar codes, and they're actually one of my favorite tools. And they're the little bit, like, the little engine that could, like, ten years ago, you know, folks would make fun of it, or even five years ago, like, people would make fun of it. Like, oh, you put a QR code at shelf. Good luck with that. And then the pandemic happened, and people started learning that in restaurants, that's how you could get your menu, and that they were actually, you know, and then when Apple added it in its camera function. It was actually like a super amazing nimble way to get information, give information, not require, you know, a long, extended, you know, form. So QR codes, I think, are are like, just a really delicate, sweet way to do it. It sounds funny to say that over a QR code, but it's true. There's other solutions like Pebel Post, which does programmatic direct mail, and I think is awesome. Their work will change a little bit with, with this post cookie world, but they still have catalogs and credit card data and emails. And so, you know, when, when you go look at something, either, like, or a brand, you'll maybe get a postcard at home. There are, opportunities like AR where in order to have a cool experience in store, you've gotta have a data exchange. And that creates an opportunity for consumers to have a cool experience, but the brand and the retailer can benefit from having this really cool engaged shopper. And so, you know, those are just some of the ones that create, a really easy and wonderful value exchange. That doesn't even get into the the the MarTech, and some of the solutions being offered with connecting your research to back end data and and there are so so many that are coming. So I think that we're in a really exciting next phase of development and hope hopefully, I'm curious if you guys, you know, what you guys think. I'll I'll jump in, you know, back to your your point, Daniel, of, you know, how what how should a retailer think about this? First of all, but the purchase intent, if elevation happens, especially with what, like, what Dylan is is offering up is I'm gonna give you something of value for you to either try the product or repeat the product. And so retailers who are helping facilitate that more easily in which to deliver that experience. That will help them, kick off. The purchasing actually then kicks off the purchase then that's where the magic does happen as retailers are looking at trying to drive critical things like increasing frequency, foot traffic and or frequency of product buying How happy am I when I get a coupon or the thing I usually buy? Like, that just reminds me and there's an incentive. And so therefore, I will buy it maybe on a sooner site So that frequency is huge and then just basket size of trying to drive a promotional activity to drive upsize buy more of something or buy the better of something. That is how retailers have and CPG companies have traditionally just driven sales over the years. This is to give it away. So I would say the retailers who embrace both a digital component that does work offline and then connecting those. The ones that can do that, the quickest is going to then give brands confidence if that's where I need to put my dollars. Because as Dylan said, there's no more money trees that are laying around. So this is gonna be a lot smarter. And as those dollars shift, the things that are not embracing that and or retailers not embracing, they're gonna start to say, why aren't you funding my programs anymore? Well, it's because they were not connected like some of the other retailers. So those dollars will shift. When we talk about taking retail media, taking, retail advertising, retail marketing and, using it to create more intent for the retailer, have them better understand their customers. This is also an opportunity to, especially if we're talking about linking online interest to offline purchasing, enhancing the customer experience and making that journey feel more seamless the end user. Because often, at, you know, as we're in this world of mass convenience constantly for the customer and the consumer any kind of solutions that integrate seamlessly into that draw towards convenience that has become a mainstay now for today's retail shopper, I think we'll find success. And so I'm curious if y'all agree in how you see this as an opportunity to elevate the customer experience whether that's in the realm of convenience, even entertainment, right, improving the quality of the advertising in the marketing to speak more towards these communities. However, you see it in this transition away from third party cookies and, in this goal of linking again, online to offline, where can we enhance the customer experience? What opportunities are there? I have sort of this idea of three Cs in in marketing, you know, we always wanna have, like, the four ps. We can't help ourselves. But, you know, I see it as connection, content, and context. And and I think in that order, although we could argue which order. And and so a post cookie world is about connection. It's about finding ways to connect that matter more. It's about content, which, by the way, it's been about content for a long, long time, and a lot of brands just were like, no, no, no. I just wanna do my my programmatic ad and call it a day, or I just wanna you know, repeat my brand name over and over again. But consumers consume more content than ever before, and they are excellent consumers of research and data about products that matter. So more content, you know, having I I I I I think that this, unless, like, we outsourced it all to AI, which I don't recommend. But it it should give content marketers more work. And, you know, the the the last one really being context, you know, create context. And and actually, David, you you also mentioned community, and I I we could add that to make that four c's. But to me, those are four things that will absolutely on day one. Improve the customer experience and that they are seeking and looking for, from brands and retailers. So each of those things will will improve the the experience in every way. We're super involved. Mark, I'll let you go this time. You let me go. No. No. Dylan, you you always have the better knowledge bombs. I'll let you Please. No. No. So we we, we're super involved in the actual, like, buying process. So less on maybe the marketing side of things and more on, like, the actual, like, path to purchase as it relates to taking the product paying for it and putting it in your cart. And I think Amazon has obviously done this the best as it relates to just making the purchasing process as easy as possible. I think Walmart, has also done a really good job at least in their dot com experience on on purchasing the product and making this simple. And that's where I think there's a lot of room for innovation in general for these brands and retailers is like what is the simplest kind of purchasing process that these brands can innovate on. I think, like, as it relates to couponing, right, it's where I'm at least gonna come back to is the paper couponing process, the print at home, the rebates. Like, those are all pretty cumbersome experiences for consumers. And we live in the on demand economy where, like, Deborah was saying earlier, you can get what you want when you want it. I can order from my favorite sandwich shop. It'll be here in twenty minutes. I can do a flash drive on Amazon. It'll be here by the end of the day. Like, these are types of things that that brands have had to adapt to in general and retailers as well. And so I think just like finding ways where you can make your product just like shoppable and easily purchasable is gonna be a huge innovation moving forward, whether that's something on the retailer's website, whether that's buying from you directly, whether that's somehow incentivizing them and giving them an easy way to redeem product in store. I think like that actual like purchasing process has a lot of room to be, you know, improved. Yeah. I actually know. I appreciate you saying that because I do think that, big disruption is hard to to push through. We had a big disruption called a pandemic, that we we all had to go through. That actually showed some disruption, but I do think iterative, approaches to that shopping journey. Let's just watch how they shop and interact and then start to plant in that existing things are used to doing. I think text is still, underutilized, but I think people are used to texting. And so, therefore, in that venue. How do I, make that? Because it's they will have to relearn how to do something. I like to download an app to do something. And so to your point of, if you can just inter interject something that's already part of their, their journey they're used to, and it doesn't feel too disruptive. That's what's I think the the retailers who are gonna help embrace that that journey, and recognize that earlier and not feel like oh, I have to change something so abruptly because it's hard to get people to change this, you know, very, very fast. Unless you kind of iterate that within their existing, their existing journeys. Yeah. And you know, I think this is really where, retail media and getting innovative with retail media is gonna play a big role. Right? Because when we When we look at the possibilities of how media is engaging end users today, there's so many new, not only channels, but media itself, has, you know, sort of data layers added onto them. I mean, there's really interesting solutions out there for, you know, letting consumers as they're watching a video, identify what is the shirt that that actor is wearing there? I really wanna buy that. I love that for I was watching fish called Wanda the other day. And man, the swag in that movie is so fire. I would love to be able to do that. So that's just I'm throwing that on Ether. But, really, what I'm saying here is that retail media, I think, you know, whether it's solutions on top of retail media, whether it's sort of creative storytelling linked with powerful data solutions that turns that media into a a more effective way of taking online interest and actually converting it into offline purchasing yeah, is is a really interesting layer of this that I think needs attention and needs some creativity. So we'll go ahead and end there on any thoughts there on the role retail media as well, is gonna play maybe some ways to get more innovative and strategic creative with how retail media can be an effective, part of that connective tissue we need to bridge online to offline customer journeys. Daniel, I I wanna jump in here because I have a lot of passion here. Is that CPG companies, and I that's kind of the the purview that we we have but they have traditionally created I would say customer teams and I'm gonna call them silos that are that are specifically up around driving their volume and revenues at specific retailers. And they've created these ecosystems that that they should not talk But, retail media now is at creating some incredibly rich data that I would love to take a a target consumer because that is is who I'm trying to go after and then actually sell them something at Walmart. It seems very odd, but that is how I leverage targets first party data in which to then try to influence a shopper to go pick that up at Walmart. That crossing of the streams actually gets really interesting. Amazon has probably the largest network of highballs right now and they have an incredible breadth of access to display inventory out, and the in the ecosystem, but actually it's costing maybe to serve, my item on Amazon. I really just want them to buy it at their local grocery store. So that is where I think the innovative thinking now is leveraging these networks and the data that you can get access to in a way to transform, that shopper journey into something that you can orchestrate them to buy it where you want them to buy it even though you're using a different retailers, network in which to, gain access to those consumers. That I think is where brands should be looking at instead of in the silos up. If I advertise on Walmart's network, I want them to buy at Walmart only. That needs to be, I I think thought differently. I I think the definition of retail media is gonna change or at least evolve in the next couple years. I think, again, I I keep coming back to the fact that, like, CPG brands eighty ninety percent of revenue is coming from retail. It's coming from in store. And so every opportunity or at least eighty, maybe eighty to ninety percent of the opportunities of online marketing should be centered around retail and brand. And so retail media could be Instagram ads driving people to go into Walmart. Like Mark is saying, it could be an influencer partnership, having people to go to Target, it could be an email. It could be a hulu. I have, like, all of those concepts I think are going to become, like, retail media opportunities. And so, yeah, it's it's I think coming back to the concept of, like, how can you use your first party data as a brand to target those folks, learn as much as you can about the consumers and market to them where they are to get them to go into the store and buy your product because at the end of the day, that's the huge growth opportunity for the brand, and that's how you build kind of something that has staying power. And, Divora, any final, thoughts here for us? You know, We've we've long talked about, sort of the evolution of retail. And, you know, it was, brands had all the power and that was retail one point o. And then retail, you know, retail two point o was the retailers had the power. And then retail three point o was the choppers had the power. I I'm not sure yet who's gonna have the power in this in this future, in this iteration. I agree with Dylan that it will shift. And thank you everyone for joining us live on this episode of experts talk. If you like what you heard in Saturday and you want some more, guess what? We're going live next week as well with some powerful conversations. We've got one coming up at the end of the week next week. On extending the life of critical infrastructure. This is a tough one for the larger energy industry today. There's a lot of work to be done there. We're hosting the big conversation. So plenty of more experts talking on experts talk head to market scale dot com for not only previous episodes of the show, but also more info on what's to come. I'm your host Daniel Litwin, the voice of b to b, signing off for the week. Hope y'all enjoy. If you hopefully you have a long weekend with a little president's day off, So enjoy that three day weekend. I know I will. Have a good one, folks. We'll see you next time on expert stock.