# Analysis: Lessons for CEOs from the Schultz & Starbucks Union Avoidance Campaign

Published 2022-05-17 · Updated 2026-03-18 · Professional AV on MarketScale
Canonical: https://www.marketscale.com/industries/pro-av/analysis-lessons-for-ceos-from-schultz-starbucks-union-avoidance-campaign

> Summary: In this report, corporate executives will get a full analysis of Starbucks’ union avoidance saga since the return of Howard Schultz, detailing his strategies over the years, how he’s putting them to work now, and how the consequences of taking an aggressive stance against Starbucks Workers United have impacted the company’s brand and financials….

> ***Summary:*** *In this report, corporate executives will get a full analysis of Starbucks’ union avoidance saga since the return of Howard Schultz, detailing his strategies over the years, how he’s putting them to work now, and how the consequences of taking an aggressive stance against Starbucks Workers United have impacted the company’s brand and financials. Citing several retail and labor experts, this report will offer a pulse-check on why Schultz’s tactics are being poorly received, and will distill these reactions down into actionable strategies for leadership to more proactively engage with union campaigns.* 

### Table of Contents

1. [What Does Starbucks Want Out Of Its CEO?](#chapterone)
2. [Schultz’s Union Avoidance History and Strategies](#chaptertwo)
3. [Starbucks Workers United’s Demands for Schultz](#chapterthree)
4. [How Schultz is Trying to Stop a Starbucks Union This Time Around](#chapterfour)
5. [Why Starbucks’ Union-Busting Tactics Aren’t Being Well-Received](#chapterfive)
6. [As CEO, Who is Schultz Responsible To?](#chaptersix)
7. [Should CEOs Fear Unions?](#chapterseven)
8. [Final Words of Advice for CEOs](#chaptereight)

The last two months for Starbucks have been transformational ones from the top-down and the bottom-up. When its five-year CEO Kevin Johnson [announced](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/16/starbucks-ceo-kevin-johnson-is-retiring-howard-schultz-returns-as-interim-chief.html) he was stepping down in mid-March, the company was already facing a labor reckoning unlike anything it’s seen in years. Starbucks workers, who since the start of the pandemic have [renewed their calls](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/26/starbuck-employees-intense-work-customer-abuse-understaffing) for increased worker protections, better staffing and fairer wages, took matters into their own hands with a watershed movement: the creation of [Starbucks Workers United](https://sbworkersunited.org/) and the company’s [first](https://www.npr.org/2021/12/09/1062150045/starbucks-first-union-buffalo-new-york) unionized store in Buffalo, New York.

By mid-March as Johnson left the company, Starbucks had around 140 stores petitioning to the NLRB for a unionization vote, with six stores already voting in favor of a union. This was all in the span of a few months. The movement, and subsequent pressure on Starbucks, has only grown. As of May 12, there are more than [260 stores](https://www.knkx.org/2022-05-01/starbucks-workers-drive-nationwide-surge-in-union-organizing) seeking a union vote, with more than [60 stores](https://www.law360.com/employment-authority/starbucks-tracker) logging a majority ‘Yes’ vote according to NLRB and LAW360 data. This is reflective not only of the specific issues baristas have with Starbucks, but also issues that COVID created for the retail environment.

“All of these disruptions happened in the macro environment. Workers in retail wanted to work in a safe environment, and also not only in terms of pay, but also in terms of benefits. And so what we are seeing in Starbucks is not an isolated event,” said [Venkatesh Shankar](https://mays.tamu.edu/directory/vshankar/), Ph.D., Director of Research for the [Center for Retailing Studies](https://mays.tamu.edu/center-for-retailing-studies/) at Texas A&M University.

Like most companies of its stature, Starbucks has been resistant of a labor movement within its stores since the start of this renewed campaign. It’s no secret that Starbucks views a union as a disruptive force.

> **“From the beginning, we’ve been clear in our belief that we do not want a union between us as partners, and that conviction has not changed. However, we have also said that we respect the legal process,” [wrote](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2021/letter-to-starbucks-partners-our-path-forward-after-buffalo-union-vote/) executive vice president Rossann Williams after the Buffalo union win.**

The reasons for Starbucks not wanting a union will be explored more in-depth throughout this report, but for starters, let’s briefly frame the Starbucks union movements against the state of the national economy. Shankar’s analysis paints a picture that makes unionizing, and the potential operational consequences of increased labor costs, the last thing Starbucks wants to worry about right now.

One of the chief concerns of the moment for retail and food service companies is how consistently-rising inflation is going to affect sales; the most [recent](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/11/cpi-april-2022.html) inflation report has the CPI 8.3% higher than April of last year, a [steady climb](https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm) since May 2020. A [survey](https://www.momentive.ai/en/blog/cnbc-financial-literacy-2022/) of almost 4000 Americans shows discretionary spending is likely to recede, if not declining already, with 52% of respondents indicating they’ll “cut back on dining out” if high prices persist, the largest share of consensus in the survey. Expensive coffee, or as Shankar calls it, “not Starbucks but four bucks,” is probably on that list.

Adapting to this moment as a unified company is critical. Starbucks sees a union as a threat to that unity, especially if short-term quarterly sales decline as workers demand more in compensation.

“There are some price points, psychological price points, beyond which if you have any item that is charged more than five bucks now people will stop buying even the things that they were buying before. And so it is important for [Starbucks] to work with their employees,” Shankar said. “And unless they do that, I see that this unionization trend will keep continuing and it will be hard for them to stop them just by their regular playbook.”

Starbucks is also a rather agile company, known for growing quickly and implementing [radical shifts](https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/starbucks-pickup-is-a-smart-covid-related-adjustment.html) in company strategy.

“Companies like Starbucks, Amazon, they’re really highflyers and fast growers and not being used to a situation where they had to really go through another stakeholder to approve of all the major decisions,” Shankar said. “Once you go through the union, the decision-making slows down considerably.”

While Starbucks workers organized, the Starbucks Board debated the best course of action for engaging with a labor movement. It appeared a change in management was in order as one CEO exited the stage and another stepped in to fill old shoes, with [tenured](https://marketscale.com/industries/retail/wake-howard-schultzs-starbucks-exit-just-impactful-can-executive-departure-retailers/) ex-CEO Howard Schultz returning to the helm of the company. In his announcement [letter](https://stories.starbucks.com/stories/2022/message-from-howard-schultz-on-the-future-of-starbucks/), Schultz made it clear that he wanted his interim period as Chief Executive to be focused on the “collective success of all our stakeholders.”

“My first work is to spend lots of time with partners. To lift up voices. To see everything that is already in play to help us become this kind of company. To invent. To face challenges — and for us each to be transparent with one another and become accountable for building the future of our company,” Schultz wrote.

Nowhere in the letter did it explicitly say the words ‘union’ or acknowledge the movement, but a promise of open communication and grassroots engagement from Schultz and Starbucks leadership hinted at where his focus as a returning CEO would lie: outreach to baristas in an attempt to get in front of a unionization campaign.

Facing a union campaign head-on is a match-up familiar to [Schultz](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/09/starbucks-ceo-howard-schultz-has-history-of-opposing-unions.html), even rather [recently](https://buffalonews.com/business/local/former-starbucks-ceo-speaks-to-buffalo-area-workers-amid-union-push/article_2265e400-3f2f-11ec-a3ad-fbf7ad00013d.html). On his first day back as CEO, he reiterated his stance during a town hall on one of the company’s perceived keys to success: “We didn’t get here by having a union.”

In February, the company expanded on its convictions in a more complete way with a [detailed webpage](https://one.starbucks.com/) dedicated to its stance on unionizing and why it thinks it isn’t a fit for Starbucks.

> **“Simply put – we are better side-by-side. We will build a better experience working side-by-side than by sitting across a negotiating table,” Starbucks said on its site.**

Side-by-side is Schultz’s style as a leader, for better or for worse. Whether he’s embraced as Uncle Howie or critiqued for a paternalistic leadership style, there’s a common [thread](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/02/06/howard-schultz-personality-cult-starbucks-224723/) between how baristas and store managers describe Schultz. He’s vocal about his social and political worldview, and it gets passed down to baristas through [company initiatives](http://www.starbucksmelody.com/2012/12/26/come-together-on-starbucks-cups/) (some better received than [others](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-31932351)). He’s been an ever-present CEO in daily operations through frequent [store visits](https://www.reddit.com/r/starbucks/comments/46ivlf/uncle_howie_came_into_my_friends_store_today/), public showings and copies of his memoir for sale in-store (of which baristas [receive](https://www.reddit.com/r/starbucks/comments/3a052n/has_anyone_here_read_onward_what_are_your_thoughts/) a partner edition). His humble beginnings, all-smiles personality and working class come-up [story](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/04/rags-to-riches-story-of-starbucks-howard-schultz.html) are the backbone of Starbucks’ intended socially-conscious mission and a key part of the Starbucks mythos, especially internally.

“You know, I’m not putting myself in the class of Tom Brady or any other athlete that has been at the cornerstone of success on a team sport. This is a team sport. It has always been a team sport. I’ve gotten more credit that I deserve,” Schultz told CNBC in an interview as he was stepping down for the second time from Starbucks leadership in 2016.

When the union pressure increased, Starbucks turned back to Schultz for answers, direction, and strategy that would reconnect the company with its workers. But after reviewing the current state of the company’s union movement, was the Schultz Decision the right one for Starbucks? The pace of new union elections is still high, and everything from Schultz’s new benefits packages to his direct anti-union language haven’t done much to dissuade the movement. Though Schultz has curated his brand as the vocal do-gooder CEO, his vocal anti-union stance has left a coffee stain on his [reputation](https://truthout.org/articles/starbucks-brought-former-ceo-howard-schultz-back-to-union-bust-workers-say/) with some baristas.

What are the learning lessons for CEOs from this entire Starbucks union saga?

The return of a familiar CEO with familiar union-busting attitudes prompted us to do some analysis for companies and leaders asking themselves how they’d handle being in Starbucks’ shoes. Chatting with labor and retail experts, reviewing Schultz’s words and actions during the campaign, reading through perspectives from both sides of the labor aisle (from unionizing Starbucks workers to The Heritage Foundation), and consulting studies from various academic sources, this analysis offers some perspectives on how a modern company and a modern CEO should approach a unionizing campaign in the current social climate. Based on how Schultz’s commentary and action has manifested during the current Starbucks Workers United movement, it’s become clear that companies shouldn’t underestimate the weight and appeal of a reinvigorated labor movement, nor the consequences of how they respond.

“I would encourage, not just Mr. Schultz, but I would encourage any CEO right now, pay attention to what your workers are telling you about your workplace,” said [Robert Bruno](https://ler.illinois.edu/directory/961/), Ph.D., Assistant Professor of Labor and Industrial Relations and Director of the Labor Studies Program at the [University of Illinois](https://ler.illinois.edu/).

## **What Does Starbucks Want Out Of Its CEO?**

Since Starbucks workers won their first union vote, Starbucks’ stock has been on the downslope. The fragile state of today’s national economy is placing fresh pressure on CEOs like Schultz to deliver on several metrics for vested capital interests. One of those metrics includes keeping the company as profitable as possible, which usually coincides with keeping union sentiments at bay; as one unaffiliated CEO [put it](https://www.empoweringpartners.com/2021/04/unions-or-unity-a-ceos-dilemma/), seeing a union movement at his company dissolve inspired “relief.”

> **“At some point during training, executives learn this lesson that, if you let your company unionize, it’s dead and you personally don’t have a future because you’ve committed the greatest cardinal sin that American management could create: You’ve let your company be unionized,” said [Paul Clark](https://ler.la.psu.edu/people/pfc2/), Ph.D., Professor and Graduate Program Director for the School of Labor and Employment Relations at [Penn State University](https://ler.la.psu.edu/).**

Is a CEO’s job security judged on how they deal with unions? Let’s explore the Starbucks situation as an example. The leadership change and its timing surrounding a renewed Starbucks labor wave drew questions around why Johnson stepped down in the first place, including whether he faced pressure from the Starbucks Board and its shareholders due to his inability to curb unionizing energy. Some of the labor experts I spoke to seem to think so.

“What mattered to the board and why a leadership change was announced is that workers are agitating and organizing into a collective force, and nothing threatens the company’s appeal to investors and cherished progressive image more than having democracy break out in the workplace,” Bruno said.

Neither party is likely to confirm the complete reasoning behind Johnson’s exit, so we remain in a realm of speculation, though we can make some educated inferences.

When Starbucks [announced](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2022/starbucks-announces-leadership-transition/) Johnson’s transition, he apparently already had an exit on the mind for over a year. His goodbye statement revealed he made this known to the Board, that “as the global pandemic neared an end, [he] would be considering retirement from Starbucks.”

Mellody Hobson, the chair of Starbucks’ board, reiterated this narrative during the company’s annual [meeting](https://s22.q4cdn.com/869488222/files/doc_downloads/2022/Starbucks-Corporation-2022-Annual-Meeting-Transcript.pdf) of shareholders, saying that Johnson “signaled to [the Board] early last year that he was starting to think about his future and possible retirement.”

“Considering” and “starting to think about” aren’t quite the same as ‘confirmed’ or ‘planned,’ but let’s take this at face value: Johnson and the Board previously arranged to have him exit the company. Hobson explained to shareholders that the company formed a working committee after hearing of Johnson’s retirement ruminations, was on top of selecting a permanent replacement by the fall, and that there were already promising candidates lined up.

This narrative has some inconsistencies. If the Starbucks Board and Johnson were already planning to have him step away as CEO, why did his exit come as such a surprise; why was this the first time all shareholders were made aware of a succession plan? If this was on the working committee’s radar for over a year, why are they still in the search process for a new CEO (consider most [executive searches](https://yscouts.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-to-find-a-ceo/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20probably%20between%20four,damage%20control%20down%20the%20road.) take around seven or eight months, and other major food brands like [Dominos](https://chainstoreage.com/dominos-pizza-names-new-ceo-cfo) and [Wingstop](https://www.franchisetimes.com/franchise_news/new-ceo-michael-skipworth-sees-fully-digital-future-for-wingstop/article_f1822530-a552-11ec-ba26-ab2c2ef6f939.html) that announced CEO transitions around the same time already had a successor picked)?

If Starbucks was confident in its permanent replacement candidates, why pull the plug on Johnson early and bother with an interim leadership period? This isn’t to say there was a grand conspiracy to keep his exit hush-hush, but rather that it puts a magnifying glass on the specific timing of Johnson’s retirement. As more time passes and Schultz’s leadership tactics manifest, Johnson’s move reads more like an unanticipated early exit spurred by growing union sentiment that he wasn’t cut out to quell.

The biggest clue to back up that take is also the most straightforward one. As Schultz was publicly welcomed back by the company, Hobson did a round of interviews with business news media. In her CNBC sit down, she was asked about the current union movement and the company’s strategies for engaging with workers. In her [answer](https://twitter.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1504104682859294728) was a revealing perspective on why the company turned to Schultz during this unprecedented labor wave.

> **“When you think about, again, why we’re leaning on Howard in this moment, it’s that connection with our people and where we think he is singularly capable of engaging with our people in a way that will make a difference,” Hobson said.**

If Starbucks’ actions are to speak for themselves, ‘making a difference’ doesn’t mean more unions; Hobson and the Board desired a change in organizing results with Schultz as the company’s leader. She made this clear when explaining why the company didn’t want to take the path of a neutrality agreement with the union.

“On the specific issue of neutrality, this one is more nuanced. One would say, how could you be against neutrality? But neutrality in its nuanced form limits our ability to speak to our partners in certain ways,” Hobson said to shareholders in their annual meeting.

So then, if Schultz is at Starbucks to engage with baristas and “make a difference” but isn’t committing to a neutral approach with the union, a difference for whom and for what purpose? An anti-neutrality stance doesn’t mean the company won’t offer some material improvements to workers, but it won’t be in the way unionizing workers want it despite Hobson saying she wanted to build a “constructive relationship” with the union.

Based on Schultz’s actions over the last two months, it appears Starbucks sought the goal of offering enough non-union incentives and reshaping the conversation in a grassroots way to keep the union’s influence limited and put a hamper on its spread. Hobson and the Board placed their full confidence in Schultz as being “singularly capable” of pulling this off. This backs up the notion that Schultz was brought back for the express purpose of stopping the union train in its tracks, and Schultz being singularly capable of shaping this moment in Starbucks’ favor implies that Johnson wasn’t.

Consider, too, that while Johnson was CEO and workers started organizing in Buffalo, he took a more backseat role in vocally opposing the union, letting executive vice president Rossann Williams hold the metaphorical megaphone instead. As the fervor for a union became inevitable in Buffalo, who did the company send to talk to workers face-to-face? Not its CEO, Johnson, but its legacy leader, [Schultz](https://www.wgrz.com/article/money/business/former-starbucks-ceo-howard-schultz-speak-in-buffalo-workers-union/71-efb35d84-96f5-400b-b742-8f7769e3829d).

Under Johnson’s tenure, Starbucks achieved several milestones that gave it strong footing in a digital era and expanded its international footprint. Though, as Schultz explained earlier, this is a team sport and more than just the CEO deserves credit for these wins, some of the successes under Johnson include…

1. maintaining profitability for the company through the pandemic and rebounding to bring back lost revenue, consistently beating quarterly year-over-year revenue records every quarter since Q2 2021
2. using [machine learning](https://www.restaurantdive.com/news/starbucks-digital-success-partially-driven-by-ai-engine-ceo-kevin-johnson/599182/) to [grow](https://s22.q4cdn.com/869488222/files/doc_financials/2022/q2/Q2-FY22-Earnings-Release-5_3_2022-Final.pdf) the brand’s loyalty program, Starbucks Rewards, from 13 million active users in 2016 to 26.7 million in Q2 2022, a 17% increase from the year before
3. leveraging the complete disruption of COVID to Starbucks’ [advantage](https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/news/how-starbucks-is-using-covid-19-crisis-to-differentiate-the-brand/43929) by leaning into the company’s digital intersections, including mobile-focused brick & mortar [stores](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2020/starbucks-to-transform-us-store-portfolio-by-building-on-the-strength-of-digital-customer-relationships/) for pick-up only and pushing its already strong loyalty program presence to the point where 53% of [spend](https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2022/more-than-half-starbucks-sales-now-driven-by-rewards-customers/) in stores happened on Starbucks Rewards in Q1 2022
4. moving the brand closer to full penetration of the Chinese market (6000 stores by 2022) through a [strategy](https://www.qsrmagazine.com/fast-food/starbucks-china-goals-new-store-every-15-hours-5-years) of opening a new store “every 15 hours for the next five years,” reaching 5,654 stores in Q2 2022 despite consistent COVID lockdowns slowing international sales
5. expanding Starbucks more confidently into the CPG market through a Nestlé [partnership](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2018/starbucks-and-nestle-form-global-coffee-alliance/), allowing the company to “market, sell and distribute” Starbucks’ various coffee and tea products

“During his tenure, Kevin expanded the company’s reach through the Global Coffee Alliance with Nestlé, which now operates in nearly 80 markets,” Hobson said.

Johnson’s leadership and strategic vision for Starbucks’ modern competitive edge played a role in taking the company from $59 a share at the start of his CEO run in 2017 to a peak of $126 a share in July 2021, settling in pre-Buffalo union vote around $115 a share. All in all, it amounts to around a 50% increase in share value. This post-mortem is to say that, even if Johnson was planning an exit for more than a year, his performance on most financial KPIs was strong. It’d be hard to say that Johnson was pressured to leave because he steered the company in an unprofitable direction or dropped the ball on the Board’s metrics.

Therefore if the narrative that he had been planning all along to leave in March has some holes, and if poor company performance is hard to argue as a motivator for swapping leaders, then one of the few errors left on Johnson’s track record was failing to proactively anticipate and prevent the spread of union sentiment. Taking all of the puzzle pieces into account, a speculative conclusion comes into focus: Even if Johnson and the Board had an exit planned at some point, his retirement came a bit earlier than expected and it was the rising unionization campaign that inevitably gave him an early boot.

“Especially when you’re coming out of the pandemic and the chain wants to go back to its more profitable and growth ways, it’s very imperative for the management to have its employees on board in all its growth ventures. And it is not in their interest to see unionization trying to put a damper on that,” Shankar said.

Seeking a new (or an old) type of leader to carry the company through this saga brought Starbucks back to the feet of its most famous spokesperson. Hobson made a bold prediction as Schultz returned to the company, that he was “singularly capable” of meeting this moment head on and creating positive results for the company. Is her prediction coming true?

## **Schultz’s History of Opposing Unions Highlights His Go-To Strategies**

The final results of Schultz’s strategies toward the SWU movement won’t bear fruit for a while, so this analysis will only be a pulse-check reflecting on the company’s tactics and Schultz’s own actions up until now. With that said, unfortunately for Schultz and Hobson, his strategies have not had their intended effect. Starbucks unionization filings remain up, with recent [wins](https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2022/05/03/starbucks-tallahassee-first-win-union-election-nlrb-florida-leon-county-votes-unionization/9630316002/) in Tallahassee, Florida and [Grand Rapids](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2022/05/13/grand-rapids-starbucks-store-becomes-first-michigan-unionize/9767217002/), Michigan. The announcement of expanded benefits for Starbucks workers hasn’t dissuaded them from consistent call outs of their difficult working conditions as well as of Starbucks’ response to the union.

Gauging how much of this continued worker sentiment is due to Schultz’s unique missteps versus a reflection of the times is up for debate. A reinvigoration of the labor rights fight is a trend capturing the imagination of workers across retail stores, from [Amazon](https://www.geekwire.com/2022/wearing-eat-the-rich-jacket-amazon-union-leader-testifies-before-senators-and-meets-with-president/), to [Apple](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/04/1096070400/apple-retail-employees-union-towson-maryland-atlanta-new-york-tim-cook), to [REI](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/business/rei-union-new-york.html), to [Dollar General](https://www.foxbusiness.com/retail/florida-woman-says-dollar-general-fired-her-over-viral-tiktok-videos).

“It is a [movement](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/07/why-is-there-a-union-boom.html) and we are not seeing just an isolated phenomenon. This is not the last time we are going to see it,” Shankar said. “Retailing was losing a lot of workers and not only because of the pandemic, but also workers not being able to meet the challenges of their customers even if they went to the workplace.”

But just because COVID massively disrupted the retail space and shined a light on gaps in the employee-management relationship doesn’t mean those gaps weren’t there in the first place. Starbucks itself is hesitant to say the whole SWU movement is COVID-related, either.

“We’re not hanging on COVID as an excuse. We made some mistakes here. We didn’t listen,” Hobson said in her CNBC interview.

Starbucks and Schultz’s anti-union strategies come in many different forms: [telling](https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpyx8/starbucks-tells-unionizing-workers-we-want-you-to-vote-no) baristas in Buffalo to vote ‘No’ on unionization, [new benefits](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/13/starbucks-is-reportedly-weighing-better-benefits-for-non-union-workers.html) and [higher pay](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2022/starbucks-commits-one-billion-in-fy2022-investments-to-uplift-partners-employees-and-the-store-experience/), active [denouncing](https://stories.starbucks.com/stories/2022/starbucks-ceo-restoring-the-trust-and-belief-of-our-partners/) of the union, allegedly [firing](https://www.eater.com/22925770/fired-memphis-starbucks-worker-union-organizing-retaliation) organizing baristas, sit-down collaboration [sessions](https://stories.starbucks.com/stories/2022/week-in-review-after-a-month-of-listening-and-collaboration-sessions-starbucks-looks-to-the-future/) with workers, and more.

These are not new strategies for Schultz, and that experience is likely why he was brought back to the company. His tactics have consistently ridden the balance of dissuading organizing through material improvements to worker conditions as well as direct language and actions against the unionizing narrative.

“If Starbucks goes to the extent of doing an audit and figuring out, ‘What are the major needs of the employees and how do we keep up with that? How do we anticipate this? How do we solve that?’ Then Starbucks would be on the right path, because in the past they have tried and done that and they have been ahead of the game by giving benefits, as I said, for…even part-time employees,” Shankar said. “That’s the way to try and resolve these issues in my view.”

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